Preventing abortion is not a vote winner in modern society; just the opposite.

ttbn.
At last we agree on something,
David

Abortion - a prime subject for Josephus and runner.

BTW whatever happened to runner?

They were probably asked to support all the unwanted children & runner lived up to his name !

Yeah, well if the lives of others were so important how about the thousands he killed through his totally uncaring attitude to covid-19. Which to date has claimed more casualties than two world wars!

Thousands of deaths that could have been prevented if this creature gave a rats about life!

This man's nightstand could have held a copy of the bible, but instead, reportedly held a copy of Herr Hitler's Mien Kampf, his alleged bible?

And probably explains why he is the Author's hero?

As for what women chose to do with their bodies? Nobody but that woman has a right to decide how it's used!

There's no law that can compel a man to surrender his personal rights over how he uses his body! Yet some of us, fanatical fundamentalists of the far-right/religious nut jobs, believe they can compel ladies to comply with their control? Regardless of the origins of the pregnancy or whether the mother has the financial wherewithal, to raise a child!

When abortion was totally illegal it still occurred! The only real difference was, far fewer mother's survived at the hands of backyard butchers! We do not know that there has been an increase! Because when it was illegal and yet still occurred, nobody kept official records!

Trump was an incorrigible owner of myriad false facts. And for mine his only real legacy apart from the seeds of the division he sowed and will eventually answer for, one way or another!
Alan B.

Like here the states run the health system, each state got into its own mess.
The Americans are weird, if the government says jump they say NO !
No matter what is involved.

The subtext of this essay called quite rightly be called:

Right-wing christian identity politics rules OK! Especially in "christian" Amerika. While pretending to be otherwise and always harping on about the alleged curse of identity politics.

Never mind too that the kind of right-wing Christian-ISM that the author promotes is a MINORITY phenomenon. Full of sound-and-fury and signifying nothing more than the LUST for authoritarian "religion"-power and control.

Joe Biden was described as self-promoting nit wit. That is of course also very much the case with many prominent politicians - Kevin Rudd and Scott Morrison being two classic examples.

Perhaps so in the case of Joe Biden but those four words provide a concise definition of the Donald (the Donald's principal mantra was/is its all about ME,ME,ME.ME,ME,ME,ME. The Donald has probably never ever done a truly other serving gesture towards anyone in his entire life - he is constitutionally incapable of doing so.

I always fall off my chair laughing when right wingers become nostalgic about the legacy of the "great communicator" Ronald Reagan - he who was one of the principal architects of turning America into a nation of Zombies - Biden seems to be a classic zombie too.

The unvarnished truth about Reagan and his all-the-way-down-the-line toxic legacy.
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Ronald_Reagan/RonaldReagan_page.html

http://psychohistory.com/books/reagans-america

Keith Olbermann pegging blokes like this years ago.

"The most politically-agitated group of citizens left are the Evangelicals. Throw them some red meat to feed their holier-than-thou rationalizations and they won't care what else you do to this corporate nation. Be prepared then for racial and religious profiling, because you've got to blame somebody for all the reductions in domestic spending and civil liberties, just to make sure the agitators against the United Corporate States of America are kept unheard. Be prepared for those poor, dumb, manipulated bastards, the Tea Party-ers, to have a glorious few years as the frontmen, as the corporations that bankroll them slowly unroll their total control of our political system. And then be prepared to watch them be banished, maybe outlawed, when a few of the brighter ones suddenly realize that the corporations have made them merely the Judas goats of American freedom. And be prepared then for the bank reforms that President Obama has just this day vowed to enable to be rolled back by his successor (purchased by the banks, with the money President Bush gave them), his successor, presumably President Palin, because, if you need a friendly face of fascism, might as well get one that can wink, and if you need a tool of whichever large industries buy her first, you might as well get somebody who lives up to that word: tool."

https://youtu.be/gPayKb39Kao

Turned out it wasn't Palin but someone even worse.

Dear undead human,

Nostalgia for the backyard butcher? Eliminating the hard fought right to abortion by a competent medical practitioner will not eliminate abortion, but it will bring back the butcher.

A pregnant woman carries a fetus not a child. Unborn child is a term less accurate than undead human. We all will be dead but not until we die. A fetus may not become a child since miscarriage or abortion may terminate pregnancy. A step on the way to getting rid of medically safe abortions would be to eliminate female suffrage. Then men could decide what women do with their bodies.

On the issue of life a woman's life and her decisions should be respected.

Undead human concludes his essay thus: "When we have "the same mind and the same judgment," we can heal our divisions and face our future with hope. Let us pray and hope Americans work to this end for the glory of our Lord not for the glory of Mr Biden."

Mr Biden is a real human being who may care about other human beings. The Lord is an entity only existing in the human mind. I prefer Mr Biden to the Lord

The pro-lifers have come up with the perfect alternative to abortion.

They call it infanticide.

And they have come up with a myriad of ways of doing it all based on good old fashioned historical evidence.

I reckon our good friend die Fuhrer Hasbeen is a pro-lifer.

Amen to this article.
God bless America and Donald Trump.

Dan

Dan, Your comment tells us who you really are! Given you approve of D Trump? Then you probably approve of the sedition he incited which resulted in five deaths. One of which was a cop who had his face stove in by a right-wing nutter like yourself no doubt, who used a fire extinguisher to bash a cop to death. On the record is the 30,000 times your hero allegedly lied to his rapt, spellbound audience!

Getting your face stove in is not a pleasant experience! Nor getting it vacuumed back out with so much as a whiff of anaesthesia or the benefit of any pain-killing medication.

In my case, the weapon of choice was boots with steel toecaps! Perhaps you were there getting your hate-filled rocks off?

So, your thing is hate and lies eh?

Methinks the world would have been a far better place if you and your "Bible-bashing hero" had been aborted by backyard butchers, when still just unthinking fetuses. Given there has not been that much change since? Especially in the top paddock?

You'll have a nice day now, y'hear.
Alan B.

Just to hand, published reports taken from the phone texting of one of the proud boys who were part of the attack on capital hill. Texting reads as follows, they are all in the tunnels. seal them in and turn on the gas. Alang with specific instructions on which doors to seal!

And meaning, this person? Had absolutely no qualms about murdering elected representatives! You can see it for yourself as highlighted text taken from the phone. And shared on Facebook by you know who!

I wonder, Do they have tunnels under our parliaments/ Canberra? And gas delivery/reticulation? Perhaps those tunnels? Need significant extraction fans powered by independent power sources?
Alan B.

Psychological violence by the Progressives outweighed the physical retaliation by the opposers of oppression !
Now, the oppression will go back to the pre-Trump levels.

ttbn,

<<Preventing abortion is not a vote winner in modern society; just the opposite.>>

To seek the majority vote on anything commits the Appeal to Popularity or Appeal to Common Belief logical fallacy. It is irrational reasoning.

Let's get to the heart of the issue: Is the murder of an unborn child - about 80,000 a year in Australia - something we are proud of?

+ "Australia's native birds are protected. It is illegal to collect eggs or to interfere with birds' nests without a permit," http://museumsvictoria.com.au/article/the-colour-of-birds-eggs/

+ "The federal Endangered Species Act lists the green, leatherback, hawksbill, and Kemp's ridley turtle as endangered.... This makes it illegal to harm, harass, or kill any sea turtles, their eggs, or hatchlings. It is also illegal to import, sell, or transport turtles or their products," http://myfwc.com/research/wildlife/sea-turtles/florida/faq/.

+ "Australia is a world leader for the protection and conservation of cetaceans (whales, dolphins and porpoises). Australia stopped whaling in 1979 and, since then, has been a global advocate for cetacean conservation. Australia’s long-term policy objectives are to maintain the global moratorium on commercial whaling, permanently end all forms of commercial whaling (including so-called ‘scientific’ whaling), and reform the International Whaling Commission into a modern conservation organisation," http://www.environment.gov.au/marine/marine-species/cetaceans/international.

So, it's acceptable to protect eggs of native birds, turtles, whales, dolphins and porpoises - but unborn human beings can be murdered right up until child birth without criminal conviction, http://www.sbs.com.au/news/abortion-has-been-decriminalised-in-queensland.

I'm not living in a country of justice when these laws are passed.

Mr Opinion,

<<The pro-lifers have come up with the perfect alternative to abortion.
They call it infanticide.>>

No, they recommend carrying the baby to full term, giving birth, and then making the darling available to those on the waiting list for adoption.

When will we really care about the unborn child being a human being (biological, medical and biblical truth) who needs to be raised by loving parents rather than being slaughtered in gruesome ways?

...to be raised by loving parents ..
OzSpen,
There are many, many loving parents who'd love nothing more than raising their kids. Just as there are many, many progressives for whom self-satisfaction is so important that they have no qualms about denying loving parents to bring up their kids by destroying families via bureaucratic idiocy !

According to the book by Mary Trump, Donald Trump's niece, Donald Trump was raised in a dysfunctional family where he did not receive the love a child should have. Denied love he learned to manipulate and survived that way. If Trump's mother had had an abortion rather than having Donald the world would have been better off.

Think of the human monsters who have existed. Eventually Hitler committed suicide but not before he had done tremendous damage. Far better had he, Genghis Khan, Napoleon and other similar destructive individuals been aborted.

In the US about 15 years after Roe vs. Wade legalised abortion the crime rate decreased. Possibly pregnant women knowing that they could not raise a child properly terminated their pregnancy. It is possible a lot of criminals were not born.

Why should a pregnant woman go through the trauma of giving birth to a child she does not want and knows she cannot properly care for?

It was a great advance that a woman can get a legal abortion from a competent doctor. It will be a great advance when there is universal sex education and adequate available contraceptives so a woman can have sex without getting pregnant. That would greatly lessen the need for abortion. Sexual activity need not result in pregnancy.

"Nostalgia for the backyard butcher?"

The backyard abortion was always a myth. It was a story made up by the abortion industry to get what they wanted. Before legalisation, most abortions were done by physicians. They were just as safe before legalisation as after. Official US figures were that 39 deaths in the entire country due to illegal abortions occurred pre-Roe, but over 100 a decade later during legal abortions.

But its a story too good to let go, or even question.

Bernard Nathanson - leading abortion who pushed the 10000 deaths a year lie...

“I confess that I knew the figures were totally false, and I suppose the others did too if they stopped to think of it. But in the ‘morality’ of our revolution, it was a useful figure, widely accepted, so why go out of our way to correct it with honest statistics? The overriding concern was to get the laws eliminated, and anything within reason that had to be done was permissible”.

Dear mhaze,

The backyard butcher is not a myth although the numbers may be overestimated by proponents of legal abortion.

Backyard butcher is an emotive term which is used by proponents of legal abortion. Unborn child is an emotive term which is used by opponents of legal abortion. We could agree to refer to illegal abortionists and fetuses and avoid all emotive terms. Could we do that?

However, I feel passionately that making abortion legal is a very good thing. I believe that a woman should have an absolute right to terminate a pregnancy. Those who oppose making abortion legal or would limit it disagree. However, the matter will be decided by our representatives in parliament.

Illegal Abortion - an overview | ScienceDirect Topics

“Unsafe Abortion

Anibal Faúndes, Laura Miranda, in International Encyclopedia of Public Health (Second Edition), 2017

Regional Differences in Occurrence of Unsafe Abortion

Most illegal abortions are performed under unsafe conditions, and most legal abortions are performed under safe conditions (although there are a number of exceptions to this general rule).

Out of the 43.8 million induced abortions estimated for 2008, 22.3 million corresponded to generally safe legal abortions and 21.5 million to mostly unsafe illegal abortions (Sedgh et al., 2012).”

The reality is that enough money will buy a medically safe abortion, and illegal abortions are riskier for poor women.

If every woman were given the choice of being fitted with an IUD when she reached sexual maturity that would eliminate most of the need for abortion.

Intra Uterine Device (IUD) | The Royal Women's Hospital (thewomens.org.au)

“No contraception is 100 per cent effective but the IUD is 99.8 per cent effective.”

We have the technology to eliminate almost all unwanted pregnancies. Why not use it?

Mhaze. Next thing you will be claiming will be, there was no holocaust?

Almost every family in Australia will know of at least one backyard abortion occurring in their own family. And often claimed as a miscarriage! Tells us you are either woefully misinformed or reading straight of the D Trump handbook, i.e., how to misrepresent the truth with endless mega mistruths/misspeak/mendacity

The fact that there are now safe medical clinics where a fetus may be safely aborted, shows we have come a long way! That no impoverished mum needs raise a child she simply cannot afford! Nor cruel her chances of an education that's a passport out of her poverty!

As long as some of us allow rape in marriage, date rape and incest! Then medically assisted pregnancy terminations need remain!

The same folk jumping up and down about portion? Often quite ok with euthanasia?

And totally indifferent to the number of deaths down to covid-19? Completely Blaise about the idea of gassing the other/the different and elected representatives being gassed trapped inside their escape tunnels?

Ought to be mandatory for all pregnancies created by right-wing haters be aborted, so their lunatic legacy and hate-filled constructs don't live on in their, hate groomed, offspring!

Imagine how many millions of lives might have been spared if this remedy had been applied to Hitler, Starlin, Putin, Idi Amin, Pol Pot and a dozen or more, mass-murdering monolithic maniacs?
Alan B.

david f. Thank heavens you and a few fully informed sane humans are contributing to this divisive debate!

Have a good weekend and a very nice day.
Alan B.

david f,

".... and avoid all emotive terms. Could we do that?"

Well you're the one who introduced the term "backyard butcher" to the discussion. You can't go playing in the gutter and then complain that others point out that's where you are.

BTW the report you refer to concerns worldwide data. This thread was about the USA. No one disputes that there are any number of 'unsafe' abortions done in sh!thole nations around the world, but in the US there are almost no such abortions performed now or pre-Roe. Ditto in Australia.

I'm not anti-abortion up to a point. But I do draw the line at late term abortions and allowing 'accidentally born' (ie born alive during a botched late term abortion) kids to perish through lack of aid.

JOSEPHUS is banging on about abortion in an unrelated thread Here and Now

see http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=9372&page=0#316533

but not in Greg Bondar's thread.

Go figure.

Dear mhaze,

I admit I introduced the term, backyard butcher. It is an emotive term as is unborn child. Can we eliminate emotive terms from this discussion?

I also draw a line at late term abortions. We may differ on where the line is. I also do not think a healthy baby should die for lack of medical attention.

Shithole nations is a term used by the bigot, Trump, who apparently considers some nations, shithole. That is also an emotive term which I would not use as I don't wish to denigrate any nation. That doesn't mean that I think all nations have good policies.

Alan B

Al..

Thanks but no thanks, for Trumps alternative.

Dan

I saw on the news yesterday where Trump will be charged with tax and business fraud and could be locked up if found guilty.

Apparently some of his closest supporters in the White House have deserted him and will be standing as witnesses for the prosecution.

Keep your fingers crossed that they go after Giuliani as well.

Exile in Russia might just be Trump's best option at the moment. Maybe he should be listed as a flight risk and have his passport confiscated.

The establishment is very very frightened of Trump.
Biden on the other hand, is an establishment criminal and gets off Scott free.

There is a problem here!

Dan

Barack Obama is a homosexual, his wife (sic), is a transvestite, and their children are adopted.

Dan.

diver dan,

You so funny . . . . . . . . . you funny funny.