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The Forum > Article Comments > The new uni-fees schedule rates a 'C' for economics and equity > Comments

The new uni-fees schedule rates a 'C' for economics and equity : Comments

By Stephen Saunders, published 5/8/2020

Dan Tehan's new uni-fees arrangements are (a) increasingly onerous for students (b) inconsistent in government contributions (c) shallow in economic rationales and (d) not serious about equity issues.

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All tertiary education should be strictly user-pays.
Posted by ttbn, Wednesday, 5 August 2020 10:46:57 AM
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Good article with much food for thought about equity concerns,
Posted by Chris Lewis, Wednesday, 5 August 2020 11:38:27 AM
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Our future and recovery is locked to STEM and our best and brightest not those with parents with the deepest pockets!

The user pays principle means non-perorming students with well-heeled parents, will be virtually able, to buy degrees?

And were this to be so? Make all the others virtually worthless? Along with all the burnt midnight oil, struggle and sacrifice!

This cannot be fixed by the applied application of idiotic idealogy from airheads, but with funding as an investment in our best possible future!

Look, I could rebuild this nation and make the richest most prosperous nation on earth and without creating any impost on the taxpayer or creating any new debt!

That's because I don't come at this or any other problem with a locked and bolted mindset/predisposition!

How, you ask?

But I'll hold fire until I'm paid to advise. And then would only agree if I didn't have to face some pencil pusher claiming, you can't do that!

We need can do, not can't do! Now and more than any time in human history!
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Wednesday, 5 August 2020 1:21:11 PM
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And not the slightest hint in the article that they don't pay a brass razoo until they earn a taxable income of ~$52k ie more than the median national income and therefore more than most workers who , of course, are paying the taxes to provide the subsidised education.

Poor dears!
Posted by mhaze, Wednesday, 5 August 2020 1:56:06 PM
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'And not the slightest hint in the article that they don't pay a brass razoo until they earn a taxable income of ~$52k ie more than the median national income and therefore more than most workers who , of course, are paying the taxes to provide the subsidised education.'

Standard reporting Mhaze. Always what they don't tell you that spoils the victim narrative.
Posted by runner, Wednesday, 5 August 2020 2:01:01 PM
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It is known that people trying to persuade others of their point of view (not us peasants with mere opinions) usually exaggerate, tell lies or - as has been noticed here - leave stuff out.
Posted by ttbn, Wednesday, 5 August 2020 4:39:17 PM
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All tertiary education should be strictly user-pays.
ttbn,
Ability to comprehend education should be the Nr1 criteria with Nr2 being able to convert the acquired knowledge into being useful to society instead of being a burden as has been the outcome thus far !
If a student has the brains but the parents don't have the funds, Govt or other sponsors should provide loans on a probationary basis !
We'd definitely clear that swamp with that tactic !
Posted by individual, Wednesday, 5 August 2020 4:57:58 PM
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This article is desperately in need of Tables and Curves for clarity. Otherwise the various figures, measures and outcomes are cherry picked then presented to we readers.

Lower charges for Doctors of Medicine and Nurses are more than justified to face COVID demand. COVID may last years.

Through the maze of clashing numbers presented by the author I don't see comparisons of how much the various professions will on average pay according to the Repay HECS taxation threshold of what? Amounts exceeding $45,000 pay per year?

For example: Doctors with average pay of $100,000 in the 5 years after graduation will pay much more back to the Government than most other Professions.

eg. This is compared to Arts students who may only need to repay very little if their average pay is $50,000 for the 5 years after graduation.
Posted by plantagenet, Wednesday, 5 August 2020 5:41:32 PM
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plantagenet,
Excuse my ignorance but what kind of jobs is an Arts degree suitable or required for ?
Trades wages are about the 60 grand mark but Tradies have to go to Trade School/College for 4 years & for many Trades several ounces of intelligence mixed with common sense are a prerequisite !
Posted by individual, Wednesday, 5 August 2020 6:35:49 PM
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u cannot be serious.

I changed a tap mixer in minutes, something a plumber would have charged myself $250 for.

trades cannot be that hard to learn.

My old boss saif they used to pump out fitter and turners with 3 months training during war.

i used to watch apprentice carpenters on building sites. they mostly did labouring and could have learned skills in a fraction of the time if it was not dragged out for years.

Please, keep debate real.
Posted by Chris Lewis, Wednesday, 5 August 2020 7:42:16 PM
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Hear, hear and well said, Pete, Chris!

All manner of airheads without a clue haven't the foggiest notion what they're banging on about. Just show their entrenched immovable basis?

I've left stuff out quite deliberately here, but posted it elsewhere with much larger audiences and like-minded thinkers, who acually understand economic and economic rationale. Moreover, the bible says, do not cast your pearls before swine!

And that's what I do every time I share my better ideas with the cellar dwellers and swillers just here to sound off?

And are intellectually handcuffed by their rusted on idiotic idealogy!
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Wednesday, 5 August 2020 9:11:26 PM
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Please, keep debate real.
Chris Lewis,
So, why not follow your own advise ? Watching a carpenter doing simple tasks or doing something as simple as changing a tap washer & then claiming expertise for same is akin to some dill saying I once watched a Doctor putting a Bandaid on or a mechanic pumping up a tyre are trades anyone could learn in a day !
Posted by individual, Wednesday, 5 August 2020 9:59:45 PM
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In fact, mhaze, I refer twice, to the (?) "world leading" contingent loans scheme. As one possible reason, why higher fees don't matter.

To me, they do matter. Because we have a two-tier school system, plus high uni fees already, and now "COVID scarring" of grad employment and earnings. Which also, ttbn, is why you can forget about strict user-pays, politically.

Plantagenet, I agree, the fees are confusing. Seriously, I kept thinking they were misprinted. Blame Tehan, not me. Full contributions tables, sorry I couldn't fit into op-ed, may be found under the links "Department" or "even more"
Posted by Steve S, Thursday, 6 August 2020 6:14:03 AM
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Hi Steve

Thanks for your reply.

I would also say that Tehan's Liberal Party would likely classify Arts Degree students as regular or future Labor and/or Greens voters.

So what is effectively a fee increase for these current/future voters will be at little political cost for Tehan and the Liberals.

Pete
Posted by plantagenet, Thursday, 6 August 2020 11:16:21 AM
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What utter twaddle.

The current system simply wastes money on people without enough grey matter to handle a real education, hence the dumbing down of most university education. It is used to fill a few years of kids who don't know what to do with themselves.

It therefor pumps out arts degreed people to fill unnecessary desks in public service departments around the country. About all it does, apart from costing real workers an arm & a leg, is keep the unemployment figures down a bit.

It was much better in the 50s. If you had a brain, & were prepared to work really hard you could get any number of scholarships from many companies in many industries. Three honors in the externally set & marked leaving certificate gave you almost total pick, a couple of honors got you most, & 3 "A"s & 3 "B"s would get you into almost any teachers scholarship. Just reasonable English & Math would get you into teachers college. It was because of this our high school teachers were a couple of cuts above the bunch today.

I was one of 3 given by Holden in Sydney in my year, 4 days at uni & one at the factory. Of my 5Th year class, only 2 did not get to uni or teachers college, one went into the family business, & one back to the sheep station.
Posted by Hasbeen, Thursday, 6 August 2020 2:19:12 PM
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From the perspective of an utterly un-educated namely myself, it is painfully obvious, just as Hasbeen said, that the majority do not have sufficient intelligence nor do they have a healthy enough mentality to firstly; handle education & secondly, to become useful members of society instead of being the burden they are on the rest of us !
A Tradesman of yesteryear could out-do a BA holder of today in seconds in just about every aspect of daily requirements for a worthwhile Citizen !
My old buddy Dave, may he rest in Peace, had twenty times more general knowledge, had a very good grasp on Latin, knew minerals & participated as a soldier in three wars.
Try & have a conversation with BA holder now & it'll become painfully obvious in moments what BA really stands for !
Posted by individual, Friday, 7 August 2020 8:50:17 AM
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Steve S,
It seems obvious to me that a much better solution would be to raise the repayment threshold for the more useful degrees. Do you have an opinion on that alternative?
Posted by Aidan, Saturday, 8 August 2020 2:12:02 AM
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