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The Forum > Article Comments > How did we get to this dire state of affairs? > Comments

How did we get to this dire state of affairs? : Comments

By Alon Ben-Meir, published 4/8/2020

As I survey our state of the Union, I feel deeply troubled and dismayed, wondering why and how we here in America got to this dire state of affairs in which we find ourselves.

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You accuse Trump of dividing the nation yet ignore the divisiveness of the baseless & unfounded Russian collusion accusations & failed impeachment. You acknowledge that a President needs a Congress with a unity of purpose to get things done, but fail to mention the Democrats complete & utter hypocritical opposition to literally everything Trump tries to do.
You call for unity, yet heap praise on the "protesters" who have burned, looted & murdered (in mostly Democrat cities) for months.
The only semblance of truth in your essay is when you stated that "only the American people can oust Trump from power" The American people voted for Trump, & the likes of you have never accepted that. When Trump wins again in November accept that the American people want Trump as their President, otherwise you will remain a whining,
sorry, pitiful, bitter loser for 4 more years.
Posted by denys, Tuesday, 4 August 2020 1:05:41 PM
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How ? You spend too much money on war and not enough on your people, you misidenty (politically useful) the culprits of your malaise (it's not terrorists, drug dealers, the unemployed, refugees or the sick who are the typical targets). Tthe true culprit is (as MLK pointed out in his struggle) the average voter) and you have evolved the worst economic system on the planet that perversely rewards rent seeking eg IP laws. The entire thing is only sustainable because you have the worlds reserve currency. If the rest of the world tires of that then the US collapses.

You can take some relief in knowing it's the human condition, the same stupidity is endemic here in Australia and many countries around the world, just at different degrees of progression.

You can't fix this by doing essentially the same thing (electing Joe Biden for example) and expecting a different outcome.
Posted by Valley Guy, Tuesday, 4 August 2020 1:11:19 PM
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Woeful wishful feelings from an author who is blinkered and still in Clinton denial. Anyone who believes Biden is the great ' white" hope for US democracy needs some seriously delusional.
Posted by Alison Jane, Tuesday, 4 August 2020 1:11:32 PM
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The penny has dropped with me. Democrats simply demonstrate immaturity, bordering on childishness.

Grow up quickly!

Dan
Posted by diver dan, Tuesday, 4 August 2020 1:22:49 PM
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AJ,

I thought that the writer didn't exactly heap praise on Biden either, simply that the way things have gone in the last few years, the US is in a dreadful mess, either way.

I don't think that either Trumpf or Biden are much chop; I've forgotten about Henry Clayton, he's history. No, that's Hilary Clayton. Oops,no, Hilary Clifton.

That was then. This is now. Close to 160,000 dead from the virus and Trumpf locked into magic thinking, that if he closes his eyes, he won't see any of the thousands of deaths, and if nobody tests, there won't be cases, so hey presto ! no deaths either.

And I suspect that he's also gambling - as a last resort - that's the nature of magic thinking, that opposites can work simultaneously- that the country will be in such a mess by November 3, 91 days away, that he will be able to postpone the elections indefinitely.

Let's face it, the US health system - surely the most advanced and well-provisioned in the world - will soon be overwhelmed by the virus UNLESS somebody with authority can impose EITHER strict lockdowns OR very strict policies of 'go about your business, but wear a mask whenever you're out, and keep a social distance'.

Can your boy do that ? Does he want to ? Is he even aware of the consequences if he doesn't take charge and impose lockdowns etc.? After all he's not all that bright. He really doesn't have a clue what's going on. Buckle up for a rough ride.

Oh well, he's your President. You're stuck with him until he's ousted by the voters.

Joe
Posted by loudmouth2, Tuesday, 4 August 2020 1:40:10 PM
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A deeper think is thus:

I've personally never, under any other president, felt more comfortable with US politics than since Donald Trump was elected just a few short years ago.

I'm unequivocally aligned with the US, and to this day hugely grateful for their contribution to our sovereignty and independence given to us at great cost to themselves during the Second World War.
If not for them our first language would now, without doubt, be Japanese.

The way things are going for Au ATM, history has turned the proverbial 360 degrees, and we may soon be acclimatised to first language Chinese.
Left to the Democrats, that outcome would be assured.

There is ample room for hope in Trump, trumping the Chinese march in SE Asia and here in Au. There is certainly no hope if Democrats scorch a win.

Their methods of mass indoctrination have been honed on the stupid of gay rights, BLM, and too much other nonsense from the same highway to hell, to allow this history of the past, to happen over again with a different outcome.
"I think I'm turning Chinese, I really think so" , are the new lyrics to the old song.

Dan
Posted by diver dan, Tuesday, 4 August 2020 1:44:53 PM
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3 years of lies re Russian delusion, Ukraine delusion, Race politics and fake news and the author agrees with the lying liberal left media and all others with their fingers in the public trough. One suspects once the election is over the Coronavirus will be put back in its proper place in the media. If Trump wins against the odds the media and elite will need another reason to oust an elected president. The only problem is the amount of death and destruction due to demolished business's and people's mental health will far far worse than all the unfortunate deaths caused by China. Disgraceful article based on disgracefully untrue narratives.
Posted by runner, Tuesday, 4 August 2020 1:51:30 PM
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wondering why and how we here in America got to this dire state of affairs in which we find ourselves.
Alon Ben-Meir,
Are you really that thick to need to ask this question ? It was YOUR lot, the Academics who are the sole cause of it & you're putting the question to us ?
Posted by individual, Tuesday, 4 August 2020 1:55:10 PM
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Alon,

Really to blame Trump for the state of affairs in the US is quite as mindless as saying Western Civilisation will be improved by adopting Marxism.

The decline of the US has been in process since WWII. the only blip were the eight years of Ronnie Reagan.

If you were a little more widely and better read and were familiar with one or two of the great US commentators, thinkers and philosophers of the 20th century, you would understand your own limitations, as displayed in your article.

I'd suggest two books for you to read. Both are intellectual and difficult reading.

'The Managerial Revolution'. (1945) and 'The Machiavellians'. (1949) Both written by James Burnham.

He predicted the rise of the neo-cons, he called them the Managerial Elite, and their defeat by the combining of the working people and the entrepreneurial classes to elect leaders who represented them and their interests. aka President Donald J Trump.

Burnham's predictions, from the 1940's, are accurate but I'd bet a pound to a penny you've never ever even heard of him let alone read him.

If you genuinely wish to discover how the US has arrived where it is and how President Donald J Trump is changing the trajectory then you will read these books.

President Donald J Trump will be returned in November in an astonishingly huge landslide.
Posted by imajulianutter, Tuesday, 4 August 2020 3:25:27 PM
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individual

Burnham's Managerial Elites included university educated: Politicians, Bureaucrats, Media, Legal Fraternity, Corporate management and Academia.

He said they would rule only in their own interests, talk about issues only important to them, in a language only they used and understood and would ignore the needs of everyone else until their rule became intolerable.

His prediction about working people and entrepeneurs followed from these thoughts.

He wrote a third book, 'The Suicide of the West'(1960's?) ... yep about immigration.
Posted by imajulianutter, Tuesday, 4 August 2020 3:39:59 PM
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I watched the Obama v. Trump documentary on SBS
the other night. I couldn't watch it all. It was
too depressing.

I remember what America used to stand for.
"Give me your poor, tired masses..." or words to
that effect at the base of the Statue of Liberty
a poem written by Emma Lazarus. Those words today
are meaningless in a world of black racism, xenophobia,
immigration bans and refugee crises. America's greatness
used to lie and live in its diversity.

Not any more.
Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 4 August 2020 3:52:04 PM
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Hi Foxy,

I look at the ghastly American situation and think (weird for an old leftie like me): what would Morrison do ?

Pull the states' leaders together, and co-ordinate a policy, within the context of each state having to cope with its own unique situation, consulting with all other states and the central government to ensure co-ordination as smooth as possible.

Nothing's perfect. Of course, there are unforeseen problems and hitches. But so far, a death rate of 220-240 compares pretty favourably to 155,000 - or 10,000 in Australia for a similar population.

I really do fear that the US, the land of Jefferson and Lincoln and M. L. King, could be in for a disastrous decline. How will the rest of the world cope in a fundamentally new situation ? Of course, China and Russia will step in to fill the vacuum as much, and as soon, as they can. But perhaps new co-ordination amongst other countries will be desperately needed to keep China and Russia at bay.

Hopefully, we will all get over this period of stupidity which has pushed Trumpf into situations which are totally beyond him. Jesus, speaking of intellectually-challenged. Hopefully he will be the last fair-weather president. Even Truman had that slogan on his desk: "The buck stops here". It takes some doing to make Truman a brilliant statesman, but that might be Trumpf's greatest achievement.

Joe
Posted by loudmouth2, Tuesday, 4 August 2020 4:16:19 PM
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“Although the decline of the American enterprise did not begin with the rise of Trump to power, he, with the support of misguided Republican leaders, has perilously mismanaged the affairs of the country and inflicted severe damage not only on our democratic institutions but on the very soul of America.”

This fellow is off his rocker. The US economy boomed when Trump and the Republicans rescued the country from the Obama catastrophe! It’s the constant white-anting of the media, loopy Democrats and now the Chinese virus that is America’s problem.

The next idiotic statement is this one:

“If Joe Biden is elected to be the next president, it will certainly raise a renewed hope that a new day is dawning in America and potentially help alleviate some of the woes we are experiencing today.

Biden is a Lefty fruitcake, with serious cognitive problems. He is 77 years old, with zero political achievements. Worse, he is a professional politician - the sort of creature that Trump rescued America from. All Presidents since Ronald Reagan - apart from Trump - have been idiots or just plain sleazy.
Posted by ttbn, Tuesday, 4 August 2020 5:33:37 PM
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Dear Joe,

What I would like to see happen is for America to get
rid of Trump. But I won't be holding my breath.
Anybody but Trump. I think that Trump doesn't
believe in anything - he's all about power. I wish
that Americans could see the man for what he really is.
Anyway, we shall see come election time - what they
believe about him.
Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 4 August 2020 6:01:37 PM
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Dear Alon Ben-Meir,

Please excuse the enfeebled seekers of authoritarian daddy figures who have been posting here. They have both forgotten what it means to be Australian and slurped mightily from Trump's cool aid.

The swamp Trump has created will take many years to drain. It will also take years to bring to account all the Trump enablers, particularly those who covered up his collusions with the expectation of presidential pardons.

As to how much he has added to the credit card after initially promising to reduce debt is indicitive of how out of depth the man is.

"On September 8, 2017, Trump signed a bill increasing the debt ceiling.20 Later that day, the debt exceeded $20 trillion for the first time in U.S. history. On February 9, 2018, Trump signed a bill suspending the debt ceiling until March 1, 2019. It leapt to $22 trillion. In July 2019, Trump suspended the debt ceiling until after the 2020 presidential election. The debt soon rose to $23 trillion. Trump has overseen the fastest increase in the debt of any president.

Trump's Fiscal Year 2021 budget projects the debt would increase $4.8 trillion during his first term. That's as much as Obama added while fighting a recession. Trump has not fulfilled his campaign promise to cut the debt. Instead, he's done the opposite."
http://www.thebalance.com/trump-plans-to-reduce-national-debt-4114401

He is an outright charlatan and I hope you are able to lance the boil this time
Posted by SteeleRedux, Tuesday, 4 August 2020 6:43:18 PM
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That's as much as Obama added while fighting a recession.
SteeleRedux,
What,and the hangers-on army of Academic 'experts' & COVID-19 are not a recession ?
The question of how not only the US but the whole World got to this dire stage of affairs has it's answer in people such as yourself, people who don't contribute anything of substance & value.
The army of people in private enterprise are keeping Nations economies going, it's the 'experts' that ruin it all !
Posted by individual, Tuesday, 4 August 2020 7:50:55 PM
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Your a funny little man gouger.
Rattling on about US debt and blaming it all on Uncle Donald.
Especially when China owns a huge swathe of the debt.
It's actually strategically sensible. Defaulting on debt, is a good hold to have as a weapon don't you think? I would imagine our good uncle might from time to time mention this fact in negotiations. I know I would, wouldn't you?

A couple of other factors you conveniently neglected to mention too.
What increases debt is taxation reductions. Tax lurks. The same ones you get for your property portfolio gouger. That's the portfolio that allows you to plunder the poor for your personal financial benefit. Tax breaks cost, usually, as you can see in rise of national debt.
Again the poor will pay the price of your greed with reductions in welfare payments and other essential social service needs such as health care, to pay for your pleasures.
Do you want me to go on?

Dan
Posted by diver dan, Tuesday, 4 August 2020 7:53:54 PM
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Hi Foxy and Joe

Well said.

And many of Alon Ben-Meir's sound sentiments are well summed up by America's

"Honest Government Ad: A message from the White House" video below (language warning):

http://youtu.be/dpIkl2QnJeI
Posted by plantagenet, Tuesday, 4 August 2020 8:26:40 PM
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America is no longer about Trump. It's about rescuing itself from itself, similar to the way Australia is heading. Only conservative politics can achieve that. We can't hope for solutions from the people who caused the dire state in the first place, the Progressives.
If anyone has evidence that the state of affairs was caused by conservatives then they should provide it !
Let's face it, the ordinary people never have a say until election whereas the Progressive leftists are in our eyes & ears every second of the day. They have hijacked Education, they infiltrated Media control AND they have no sense ! People who think can see that but since Education has deteriorated even thinkers are becoming scarce !
There's your dire state of affairs !
Posted by individual, Wednesday, 5 August 2020 8:20:50 AM
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Wait a minute, why is this Alon, watsisface talking as if he is in America?
Is OLO an American entity, or what?
And even further again, why are we even entertaining anything to do with the US?
I thought OLO was an Australian forum.
For me that has a lot to do with the standing of this medium.
Can anyone explain or elaborate?
Posted by ALTRAV, Wednesday, 5 August 2020 10:54:50 AM
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How many dead due to Covid-19 in the US?
160,000?
Maybe Trump has evidence of a much lower number - that will get him elected.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/cdc-director-acknowledges-hospitals-have-a-monetary-incentive-to-overcount-coronavirus-deaths?fbclid=IwAR0-ziREUsf0DUdwzL0uHAffo6J7_0mHb9YMPa8qxkdaxqxDbW0L8ZdMkk0
Posted by JF Aus, Wednesday, 5 August 2020 12:51:32 PM
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Electing Joe Biden will change very little.

Biden is every bit a war-monger as the most hawkish of the Republicans. He pushed hard on Yugoslavia and Iraq and practically every other illegal US invasion of his time. He’s a big supporter of the rapacious US military-industrial complex and is highly unlikely to touch the Pentagon’s 700 billion dollar budget. He’s already ramping up aggression and hostility towards China, Russia, Iran, North Korea and Venezuela and promises a far more hardline and confrontational approach than Trump ever has.

Layered over his war-mongering is his obvious dementia which is a most dangerous combination for a president with his finger on the red button. Biden will do nothing to unify his nation or the world. The circus that is US politics will continue and its sick, obscenely-unequal and deeply-polarised society will in all probability further sink from its current state of failure and malaise to one of total collapse.

Australia needs to stand up to American bullying and its hegemonic ambitions and stop helping it beat its war drums. We need to end our role of playing deputy sheriff to this erratic predator and start forging an independent foreign policy and developing mutually-cooperative trade relations with the rest of the world.

Any fawning to Biden will be as dangerous and self-destructive as our present cosying-up to Trump.
Posted by Bronwyn, Wednesday, 5 August 2020 12:54:43 PM
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Dear Bronwyn,

What a frightening scenario.

What a dismal choice for the Americans - between one
psychologically disturbed individual to one
with dementia?

Perhaps any change can lead to a better outcome than the
one they have currently. Surely it can't get any worse.
I agree that Australia needs to develop stronger relations
with its neighbours. But I do feel empathy for the US
because they really don't deserve the mess they've currently
got.

With Biden, if he picks the right Vice President - he can
always step aside in the future if things get too bad for
him health wise and the Vice President will be able to
take over. It has happened in the past with good results
Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 5 August 2020 2:01:26 PM
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Hi Foxy,

There is no shortage of admirable choices: Kamala Harris, Susan Rice and Michelle for starters, perhaps in a variety of positions. - Susan Rice as Secretary of State, for example. I think they would all be tough enough to clean out the Trumpf Swamp, although it may take a full presidential term, 2024-2028, to complete.

Whoever gets the job, they will be burdened for many years by enormous inherited problems, so the ratbags here will have many years of happy sniping and whingeing ahead of them.

I'm still angry about the vicious attacks on that wonderful man, Eddie Jaku. Bastards who attack him, sitting on their arses in comfort, are like weevils in the flour.

Love,

Joe
Posted by loudmouth2, Wednesday, 5 August 2020 2:49:40 PM
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'Whoever gets the job, they will be burdened for many years by enormous inherited problems, so the ratbags here will have many years of happy sniping and whingeing ahead of them.'

flat out surpassing your sniping and whining Joe!
Posted by runner, Wednesday, 5 August 2020 3:13:38 PM
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Dear Joe,

Don't worry about Eddie Jaku (Jakubowitz) the Holocaust
survivor - he's an exceptional human being and -
- he's survived and is telling his story,
sharing his wisdom and living his best possible life
with his family and community in Sydney. The world could
do with more people like him. We've only had one critic
of Eddie on this forum - but that person is
mentally unstable so he can't be taken seriously. Only
pitied.

Unfortunately with the current US President it's a different
story. He needs to be taken very seriously and not be
given the opportunity to do any more damage. I'm not
concerned about Biden because as I said earlier - with
the right choice of Vice President - the United States
will be moving in the right direction. It will take time to
clean up the mess, of course, but it can be done - the
sooner the better.

I am so glad that I live in Australia. Our current government
is doing a great job.
Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 5 August 2020 3:23:21 PM
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Agreed Foxy and Joe, a decent choice in running mate could help ameliorate some of the problems with Biden.

Whoever it is, they will have to jump to the tune of the DNC ... and therein lies the problem, as they represent the corporate elite and war-mongering establishment every bit as much as the Republicans do. DNC control will almost certainly preclude the more Progressive candidates like Elizabeth Warren, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Tulsi Gabbard. They've already knocked out America's best hope in Bernie Sanders.

But yes, Kamala Harris would be a reasonable choice.
Posted by Bronwyn, Wednesday, 5 August 2020 3:32:57 PM
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Dear Bronwyn,

I think that Kamala Harris would be an excellent choice
as vice-president for Joe Biden. Her credentials are
impressive and I believe that she is one the short-list
so fingers-crossed that something good will eventuate.
Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 5 August 2020 4:02:09 PM
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I'll do my best, Foxy, to absorb some of your positivity and optimism!
Posted by Bronwyn, Wednesday, 5 August 2020 6:15:24 PM
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Thanks Bronwyn.

And I shall try to do more research so
that I'm better informed.

I watched the Obama v. Trump program the other
night on SBS - but I couldn't watch it all.
It was too depressing.

America is certainly in a mess at the moment.
Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 5 August 2020 6:58:31 PM
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Bronwyn, Imajulianutter in drag.
Posted by LEGO, Tuesday, 11 August 2020 1:12:39 PM
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