When poor whites in our communities, need to tell porkies and claim aboriginal ancestry to access critical services for themselves and their families; all the problems are not over on the side of Aboriginals.

This country above most, invest huge resources into Aboriginal welfare, tailored towards their special needs. Poor whites are hanging onto their shirt tails to survive.
Your are actually doing better than most.

There needs to be an updated view from Aboriginals which recognises the investment into its life and culture, in the modern age.

Museums and art galleries are shop front adorned with aboriginal artefacts and heritage memorabilia which spills out onto our streets in mast head aboriginall flags, given prominence.

In my view, it is beyond time Aboriginals took their own responsibilites serously enough to accept that there is actually a need among themselves, for appreciation towards the compromises of the greater society, towards their special interests.

Nothing is perfect. Not for anyone.

Dan

diver dan,
That is about the most apt sum-up !

Well, Samantha, you look about as "aboriginal" as I do. And since I am older, and have therefore lived in Australia longer than you, I could probably claim to be more "aboriginal" than you are. The USA once had the infamous "one drop rule" which stated in law, that if any white person had so much as one drop of African blood, they must be regarded as Africans. This was considered by the liberal left as unspeakably racist. But Australia has the "one drop rule" in reverse, where apparently even one drop of aboriginal blood allows you to claim "aboriginality". This gives entitlement to no end of race based government benefits, including being allowed to mine the rivers of gold in the $60 billion "aboriginal" welfare budget.

Strangely though, the liberal left avert their eyes and pretend that they can not recognise that this is racist also.

I see that as an "aboriginal" you have a good unproductive government non job especially reserved for your particular chosen race, where you can actually get paid by Australian taxpayers to go on and on about the racism of white Australian taxpayers, who pay your wages. Nice work if you can get it. And your particular forte is whining about the disproportionate numbers of aboriginal people in jail?

The reason why aboriginal people are disproportionately represented in jails, Samantha, is because they are disproportionately represented in the sort of crimes which get people locked up. Instead of implying that the white race is to blame for aboriginal criminal behaviour (which is racist), perhaps you could put the blame on your own chosen races remarkable inability to obey the law? If aboriginal males resort to traditional violence towards aboriginal females, how is that the white man's fault?

But telling your own chosen race to stop getting paralytic drunk and bashing their wives and girlfriends, and to look after their children so that the cruel white oppressors don't have to "steal" them to feed them, is not going to win you any friends among your activist class of ABC luvvies, is it

But it's also important this is not forgotten.

Aboriginals are an ancient culture which is deeply embedded in their DNA.

The last isolated community without previous contact with whites, was rescued from the fall-out zone of Woomera rocket range in the Western desert of SA, in 1964.
http://aiatsis.gov.au/publications/products/cleared-out-first-contact-western-desert/paperback

Dan

That young copper put up with a lot of abuse from the Aboriginal moron before he took action, and comparing the death of an African American with anything to do with Australian Aborigines is a shocking insult, to the murdered man, and to Australian police.

And what the hell is an "anti-racist crusader". This person sounds more like a racist crusader, her target being white Australians.

"We are called upon for our time, our energy, our opinions, our stories ….". Who called on 'our' time? Who called on this person to give white Australians another monotonous, boring serve of rubbish? People are sick and tired of hearing from a small minority of bludgers and whingers claiming to be Aboriginal. There is absolutely NO parallel between "the US #BlackLivesMatter protests and what is happening in Australia". Nothing is happening in Australia apart from the whining, white-hating noise of aboriginal-identifiers seeking notoriety and handouts.

The Royal Commission found that there was no difference in Aboriginal deaths in custody and those of any other prisoners, but still the lies are repeated.

Absolute racist claptrap. This woman claims to be a "proud" Gumbaynggirr woman. I wonder if the Gumbaynggirr are proud of her and this outburst.

Reconciliation is a two-way process. While white Australia must admit to the wrongs of the past in their dealings with and treatment of Aboriginal people, it's essential (if our two cultures are ever to be reconciled) for Aboriginal people to admit to the many undesirable aspects of their current and past culture and to the many fatal interactions they had with early settlers and explorers as well as with their own people.

Samantha Cooper: or because I work three jobs, or because I am studying and volunteering.

It’s great to see an Aboriginal working & working hard to get ahead.

Samantha Cooper: This week as thousands of people take to the streets to protest police brutality after the horrifying murder of George Floyd.

George was a known Criminal being arrested for Forgery at the time. The Media has failed to mention that.

Samantha Cooper: and a New South Wales police officer is under investigation for throwing a young Aboriginal man not resisting to the ground on his face.

The young man that threaten the Policeman with violence. The Media keeps failing to mention that. The tactic they used is used on anyone resisting arrest, Black or White.

Samantha Cooper: The systemic racism in Australia means my people are thirteen times more likely to be incarcerated than a non-indigenous person, we are thirty per cent of the prison population and only three per cent of the people of Australia.

Because of Racism it only 13% more. If Racism want involved that percentage would be much higher. Most Aboriginal Criminals are let off, because they are Aboriginal, for PC reasons.
If they didn’t keep committing crimes they wouldn’t be serving time.

Samantha Cooper: Since the Royal Commission into Aboriginal deaths in custody in 1991 we have lost 432 Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people in custody.

Some of these suicides are, “I’ll show you.” suicides. They don’t have to commit suicide. That is a personal decision.

Samantha Cooper: I watched an excellent lawyer and a compassionate police officer keep family members out of prison.

Then they go straight out & show their appreciation of your good works by committing another crime. Knowing that they are being protected by gullible people like yourself.

Samantha Cooper: For equality.

You have equality. If you like to use it properly.

Samanther Cooper: Think before you speak.
I have thought about it. A Lot. I refuse to take the blame for something I personally was not a part of causing.

Cont.

Cont.
Samanther Cooper: the treatment of black people for hundreds of years which has resulted in thousands of lives lost,

Admittedly the treatment of Aboriginal People 250 to 100 years ago was one of total indifference. Mostly the reason was the same as why Australia wasn’t settled by any other nation, even the Chinese. The people were regarded as being too primitive, too extreme, there was nothing they had of any value that any nation could trade for or even want. Sandal Wood, Camphor & Beached De Mer could be just taken.
Samanther Coopper: children removed,

Hmmm…What was the primary reason children were removed? Did it have anything to do with Child Abuse by the Elders? Was it because they were Mulatto & not accepted by the Tribe so left, beaten, raped & not allowed to be integrated into the Tribe? No0one has yet been proven to have been a “Removed” person in a Court of Law. All those who have made the claim have been proven to be otherwise. Some even being White People

Cont. Again

Samantha Cooper: land pillaged, sacred places destroyed and intergenerational trauma for hundreds of years.

Yes, unfortunately, that is true. Then again, it’s hard to know what is really a Sacred Place & what is not. The “Bridge” in South Australia & “Secret Women’s” Business comes to mind.

On that note. I come from North Queensland. I went to school & worked with many Islanders. Those people weren’t considered as part of the Aboriginal Structure (Black) in Australia. They wanted to be but were denied by the Aboriginal agencies in Australia at the time. They weren’t entitled to free School, Medical or any other benefits granted to Aboriginal People.

It was the Mabo Court decision that changed all that. The Aboriginal Agencies saw this as a possible win for them if they welcomed the Torres Straight Islanders & other Islanders as part of the Aboriginal Family in Australia.

Suddenly the Torres Straight Islanders & Kannaka Decedents were welcomed into the Aboriginal Family. Strange that. Ay.

Aboriginal People have Equal Rights. They just have to act Equally responsibly.

I can just bet I get a blast for this. Ay.

Gee's Bernie, how bloody many imes does Whote Australia have to say it's bloody sorry for" The Sins of our Fathers?"

tut, tut, ttbn and legoland

Yee of little faith.

Paraphrasing Menzies if "I did but see her passing by” I’d say she is very good looking.

That said, to be a female writer and a minority, who will be judged by the mainly white-male-rightwing OLO commentariat, is pretty brave.

Aboriginals, who look like Aboriginals, have it very rough in some places, especially Queensland, from Brisbane to Cooktown and, of course, inland.

Some of my Maori friends have felt this discrimination. In NZ Maoris are considered normal people, but in Queensland they're considered "low class abos".

This morning I saw a photograph of a young woman of Aboriginal appearance wearing a Tshirt emblazoned with ‘Stop white supremacy’. I would like such people to explain just what form this white supremacy takes in Australia; how they suggest it be stopped, and what Australia would be like without it. How would she and her fellow agitators be better off.

I suspect that no such explanation would be forthcoming - that it is just another mindless, racist, anti-white slogan that is supposed to make white people feel guilty.

And no, Bernie Masters; I am not going to apologise for something someone I don’t know might or might not have done a couple of centuries ago or even later.

A small number of people who might or might not have claim to Aboriginal ancestors, plus the extreme Left are copying the tactics of US extremists. If they can’t pick the difference, most Australians can, so they are wasting their time and making themselves even more contemptible and disliked than they already are.

To Jayb and ttbn,
Best if you read my post again. I'm not asking anyone to apologise for anything. I'm asking people on both sides to admit the truth. Just as you have to admit to being an alcoholic if you want to join AA, so you should be prepared to admit to wrongs on both sides of the black and white divide. Only then can we hope to reconcile and move forward as one nation and one people.

Anyone ever heard of the -

Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Peoples
Recognition Act 2013?

On February 13, 2013 PM Julia Gillard and Opposition
Leader Tony Abbott addressed Parliament in support
of this Bill to recognise our Indigenous People in
the Constitution.

PM Gillard said:

"We must never feel guilt for the things already done
in this nation's history, but we can and MUST feel
responsibility for the things that remain undone.

No gesture speaks more deeply to the healing of our
nation's fabric than amending our nation's founding
chapter.

We are bound to each other in this land and always will
be. Let us be bound in justice and dignity as well".

The Bill passed then - but now is no longer in force.

Why is that?

In an earlier more honest age, Samantha Cooper, if she is telling the truth, would have been referred to as a European, with a touch of the tar brush, & most like her would have kept that fact well hidden. It was a real disadvantage.

Today Samantha Cooper shouts it from the roof tops, because it is a very real advantage to have such heritage. She then makes the totally untrue claim that this heritage is a disadvantage, while depending on it for being noticed, & gaining access to many privileges & opportunities.

While ever those with a touch of aboriginal blood continue to trade so unscrupulously on it, there is no chance of any form of reconciliation, obviously the last Samantha Coopers of this world would want. Without the claim of aboriginality, they lose their main reason for existence, & access to publishing opportunity.

Samantha if you want to do something for aboriginal welfare, shut the hell up, you are simply generating ill will among most of us with these exaggerated, untruthful whining type pieces.

There are two cultures here some black some white, with those who have a foot in each camp trying to make the descendants of the early setters responsible for every atrocity and there were many on both sides and some committed by native policemen!

In recent days there have been some scenes that did not cover anyone with glory.

And in each current case there needs to be legal repercussions! And a fair trail that allows both sides of the story to be told.

Having a bad day the most lame excuse for completely over the top violence, except when dealing with a murderous ice addict?

Obviously this saintly child was completely innocent and wasn't bad mouthing a cop.

Was a well brought kid with impeccable manners, thanks to the care and love of his always sober, considerate, guiding, kind and gentle aboriginal parents!

I mean I could take my mixed race kids anywhere and always receive compliments about how well mannered and well behave they were!

Aboriginals do not bash their wives rape and bugger their kids!

Are model citizens in every respect who do not humbug, lie, cheat, steal. Would never dream of "borrowing" a motor vehicle then crash and smash it then set fire to it, leaving the disabled owner immobile?

It's time these peace loving nonviolent folk were given a fair shake!?

Then there'd be no need for the endless victim-hood and humbug we're constantly subjected to!

And nobody doing time in jail as a rite of passage!

Reconciliation? Really!? You sure!?
Alan B.

Thank you Samantha for your article, writing from your Indigenous experience. Sadly, reading several of the comments, the bigotry is still out there. From my observation bigots (and the self-righteous) lack the self-knowledge to acknowledge their condition. My encounters with such bigots reveals their very limited grasp of Australian white history, let alone Indigenous history. And I expect they don't intend to learn anything beyond their bigotry.

Dear Samantha,

I apologise for the red necked racists comments your fine article has received on OLO. One wants to know why you don't look like "Truganini", does he look like "Captain Cook"? Then there is the shock that you don't fit the stereotype, please admit you are a no good lay-about, so the racists here can feel that much better. Another of the regulars uses the disparaging remark referring to "a touch of the tar brush", the same bloke regularly exhibits a touch of the sun with his comments.
A very good and interesting article, and much appreciated by the decent folk on OLO.

Reconciliation can't be seen as a single issue or
agenda.

There are so many dimensions involved from historical
acceptance, race relations, to institutional integrity
and unity, onto equality and equity. These dimensions don't
exist in isolation but are inter-related. The contemporary
definition of Reconciliation must weave all of these
dimensions together.

For example greater historical acceptance of the wrongs
and being included in our nation's founding document
would bind us all together. It would possibly lead
to improved race relations which in turn would lead to
greater equality and equity.

Reconciliation must transcend Australian political theatre
and promote a sense of national unity - so spoke Patrick
Dodson.

Some other wise person also said - "In a just and
equitable Australia, Aboriginal and Torres Strait
Islander children will have the same life chances as
non-Indigenous children, and the length and quality of a
person's life will not be determined by their racial
background".

Dear Samantha - Thank You for your article. Ignore the
racists - they're a minority - and will die out - and
end up on the dung heap of history - where they belong.

No again, Bernie. What happened in the past stays in the past. Everyone gets the same deal in modern Australia. This poor black fella nonsense has been going on for years without any change. Same old moaning and complaining about whitey, with nothing gained because there is nothing to be gained.

Academics have concocted a totally false image of aboriginal culture that has come to dominate all discourse and seen millions of dollars being put into indigenous studies centres, research, courses, colleges and propping up living museums in totally uneconomic, isolated camps misnamed 'communities'. The elites of the aboriginal industry have assumed for themselves a pseudo culture that carries with it all the pomp and circumstance of a nation - one that never existed.

A common culture of all aboriginal people has been invented, as has an unreal society of liberty and fraternity among the nomadic tribes and family groups of the original inhabitants. The truth is regular warfare, raiding, porous borders, brutality and the abandonment of the unwanted.

These historical facts have not prevented the fabrication of an ancient Utopia, the aim of which is not to reflect past truths, but to set up for apartheid in the future

Hi Foxy, you wrote "Some other wise person also said - "In a just and
equitable Australia, Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children will have the same life chances as non-Indigenous children, and the length and quality of a person's life will not be determined by their racial
background"." My understanding of Australia is that it is a country where equality of opportunity is one of the highest in the world. If true, then it is up to individual Australians to take advantage of those opportunities to achieve the outcomes they hope for. Clearly, this is not happening in Australia, in part because we don't have a two-way acceptance of the concept of reconciliation.

To ttbn, I fear your problem is that you've been too influenced by academics. They certainly have painted a false picture of Aboriginal culture which is why I believe it's so important for Aboriginal people to fully understand the realities of their historical culture which was anything but utopian, hence my call for both sides to agree to a two-way reconciliation process.

I agree with Bernie Masters on this matter.

No one should forget their past, but it has to be honest rather than blinkered recall.

Having said that, i dont see how reconciliation will change much for a while yet.

If a group is over-represented in a low income group, there will always be tension (and hatred) by many.

There will also be those who are simply racists that will never give ground, and will choose to deny the past.

Dear Bernie,

I agree it does have to be a two way street.

However if only one hand is clapping - it's
not going to achieve what it's trying to achieve.
It takes both hands - in order to work.

And, as we've seen to date - no matter what good
people have tried - until our leaders in
Parliament actually amend our nation's founding
charter - justice and dignity will remain outside
the domain of our Indigenous people.

white Australia must admit to the wrongs of the past in their dealings with and treatment of Aboriginal people,
Bernie Masters,
How many more times does this need to be done ? Why, we've even got a whole industry devoted to that ! For all the love in the World I can't think of what else can be done ?

much appreciated by the decent folk on OLO.
Paul1405,
So, what's your Antifa stance on that if it's only appreciated by decent folk ?

Individual,

"We must never feel guilt for the things already done
in this nation's history, but we can and MUST feel
responsibility for the things that remain undone".

"No gesture speaks more deeply to the healing of our
nation's fabric than amending our nation's founding
charter".

Acknowledging our First People in our
Constitution, and removing the racial discrimination
bits. That has not been done - as yet.

"We are bound to each other in this land and always will be.
Let us be bound in justice and dignity as well".

Foxy,
I agree but, what do you envisage as a cut-off point for guilt & compensation or do you think it should just go on ad infinitum ?
Do you really think Samantha Cooper's claims are morally & technically warranted ? If this is really a racial issue then her grievances can, judging by her complexion, only be miniscule !

Bernie,

I am not influenced by academics. I said, "Academics have concocted a totally false image of aboriginal culture …". I was criticising academics.

It's some young people of Aboriginal descent and Leftists who have been influenced by academics. They have recently had another book full of lies presented to them by Bruce Pascoe. You wanted me to reread what you wrote; I think you should do the same for me.

But the long and short of this matter is that Reconciliation Week, and all the other faddish performances will make NO difference whatever. Nothing is going to get better for no hopers. All people of Aboriginal descent who were going to make it have already done so - on their own, and the up and coming ones, not tied to a past they didn't live, will do the same. The sort of ideological rubbish vomited up by ignoramuses referring to people as "rednecks" will not change anything.

Were I descended from Aboriginal stock, I would feel insulted by the insinuations that I couldn't get by without extra help just because of the colour of my skin. It must be depressing to be told by self-serving activists that you can't make it like the rest of your fellow Australians.

Here's where the whole thing falls over! White Australia must admit to the sins of the past! Ok, then I'll put my hand up and own my own behavior all of it!

I'll admit to the colour code infanticide The mistreatment and abuse of gender difference forced marriages, child brides and the regular bullying of fatherless kids or those whose skin was too pale!

Or the shooting etc, performed by native policemen!

All what white Australia is responsible for!

Or the lung diseases caused by tobacco! Or fetal alcohol syndrome.

After all, I stood my gun aimed at heads to force this behavior and outcomes.Bend that arm, drink that brew! Smoke, smoke that cigarette

Aborigines are blameless and make up 30% of our prison population because white Australia has fitted them.

Many start out as petty crims stealing candy cause their food budget has been pissed up against a wall? Others hang themsevles as their only way out of the rule of the law boss and the outcomes that flow from all that? And have the highest suicide rates in Australia.

It's all whitey's fault! I directed Captain cook to come here and steal this land,then sent shiploads of emaciated,near dead and starving convicts here as punishment for petty crimes! And renamed by diabolically mendacious activists, as invaders

Tired of professional victims and reverse aparthied?

Instead, let's have a truth and reconciliation commission and a bill of equal rights for all born here! And those who have sworn alligence. They're all Australian!
Alan B.

I just want to say to Samantha, good on you for articulating your perspective about an issue that you are passionate about.

On Line Opinion can be a bit like being thrown to the lions on some issues, given some of the harsh posters, but i am sure any criticism will help you sharpen your perspective for future articles on OLO and elsewhere.

Samantha, why do indigenous constantly obsess over the number of black deaths in custody without ever mentioning that black people are no more likely to die in custody than white people? In fact, for the past 20 years, whites are more likely to die in custody.
Even the Royal Commission into black deaths had to admit there was no great difference between the death rates in custody.
As for over representation in prison, why no mention that the majority of black people are in prison for violent crimes, usually against another black person. Most murders in this country are committed by black people.
And before you jump in and excuse that violent behaviour on the treatment they have received from white people, please have the honesty to admit that cultural factors drive much of this violence and that is the reason for the horrifically high murder and assault rate in the north, where black people are still connected to culture.
Traditional aboriginal people have no experience in non violent conflict resolution, one of the reasons for the unending family and tribal feuds that occur in the north. I have actually suggested to the principal of the local high school that they start teaching conflict resolution as a course in an order to reduce the number of black initiated fights at school

personally I am very tired of people in well paid Government jobs claiming victim status. Certainly numerous victims of domestic violence and child abuse are aboriginal. The simple truth is that the offenders are also aboriginal. Blaming whities for this is the whole reason the problem can never be fixed. Teach Indigeneous people to take ownership of their crimes and a little bit of progress might be made. Instead its easier to blame the police, blame the first settlers or blame anyone else to take the focus from the problem.

Onya ttbn. Sick 'em, Fang.

"Reconciliation" is just another racket invented by the Aboriginal Grievance Industry to hopefully shame white people into pouring even more billions of dollars into an ever growing financial black hole. This black hole is supposedly going to make aboriginal people "equal" with everyone else who has developed the knack of standing on their own two feet. Yet all it seems to do is make self appointed and always outraged aboriginal "elders" richer.

I am not opposed to State and Federal governments aiding those who do not have the mental acuity to be independent of government handouts. But I do object when those self same dependent people snatch the money without so much as a "thank you" and instead present their dependence as something they are entitled to, while simultaneously slandering those who are their benefactors.

The best thing that ever happened to the aboriginal race in 50,000 years was the coming of the British. If it had been the Germans or the Japanese, they would all be dead. If it had been the Muslims they would all be slaves. But it was the British, who began the process of turning the continent of Australia into one of the best and desirable countries on planet Earth. If Australia had never been settled by the British, Australia today would be just another totally dysfunctional black ruled basket case holding out the begging bowl to the rest of the world. Sudan, Somalia, Zimbabwe, Sudan, and Upper Topdoggia on steroids.

White Australians today have no more need do apologise for British settlement of Australia, especially so regarding it's prosperous outcome, any more than the young Japanese or Germans of today need abase themselves and self flagellate for the unspeakable war crimes committed by their great grandfathers in WW2.

But rather incredibly, western societies everywhere have somehow created a new caste of tertiary educated Brahmins who think they are God's gift to the human race. And virtue signalling, and constantly attacking their own superior civilisation and own people, is their favourite fashion accessory, which denotes membership of their scurvy caste

As the avalanche of foreign invaders decimated indigenous populations across the globe, and over time, from North American Indians to the Neanderthals in Europe, it's goodbye to the Australian Native culture.

How everybody deals with that inevitabllity is a matter of humanity.

My view is, there needs to be a respect for the contributions of previous cultures, or everybody loses.

The Aboriginal dreaming bings forward a memory hieroglyph no less important than the much prized Egyptians codes of the past.

There is a dividing line that seems to be lost to us between what is mundane and what is critically important to the future of us all, on this subject.

Dan

How can you expect an ancient culture to step into a modern world and be happy?

That step brings with it an endemic unhappiness. How could it be any other way?

For very good reasons, only Aboriginals are allowed the privilege of ownership of a dingo. It's too minor a concession.

It's up to the rest of us to move over and "sensibly" chip-in.

Dan

Diver Dan, endemic unhappiness? Really? The majority of aboriginal people I know in the north are actually just as happy as the rest of us. And have the same issues and dreams as us as well. A job they enjoy that pays well, kids succeeding in school, dreams of home ownership, hopes for a good haul at fishing on the weekend, hopes for a lotto win. You know, all the common wants of everyday life.
And even those unemployed with addiction issues aren’t drooping around the place lamenting the loss of their culture. In fact I’ve never met a single aboriginal in my 50 years in the north who would give up their westernised life to return to their traditional culture. What most want is to own their land but live a western culture. Something many already have.

Big Nana,

that is interesting.

we should indeed have polls that ask Aborigines about their views, like we do everything else.

perhaps then we would have a much more accurate understanding about what is going on.

i would like to think that all groups, whatever their identification, are getting on with the human quest for happiness and prosperity, albeit obviously some may be disadvantaged.

If what you say is generally true big nana, we wouldn't have authors complaining on OLO of the opposite would we!

I stand by what I said. That's without stating here, where my position comes from, and what overall life experiences prompted them to be said.

In your world, your right, and in my world I'm right. Where does that put the argument then?

The balls in your court!

Dan

Hi Big Nana,

Yes, you're right on the money. Looking at the Education Department and last ABS Census figures, out of an average Indigenous population across the 18-24 age-groups of about 14,000 (ABS, 2016), in 2018, nearly 5,900 Indigenous people commenced university study for the first time. i.e. more than 40 %:

http://www.education.gov.au/higher-education-statistics

Of course, the great majority of those were living in urban areas, where the vast majority of Indigenous people now live. Two-thirds were women. More than 90 % were enrolling in standard, mainstream degree-level study.

Indigenous participation in university education in Australia is on a par with, or better than, participation in most of Europe. Indigenous numbers of commencements and graduates is increasing each year by around 7 %. Like for everybody else, the Covid-19 virus will kick those figures around for a year or two.

I look forward eagerly to the day when the Indigenous elites actually trumpet these sorts of figures, and move away just a bit from its parasitic mutual dependence on the welfare population. Perhaps not in my life-time.

Never mind, they'll keep rising. Graduates total around fifty thousand now, one in every six or seven Indigenous adults, and will exceed one hundred thousand by around 2030.

This young lady has been one of them. There are probably well over a thousand Indigenous lawyers these days. I hope she learns as she goes.

Joe

Diver Dan, I cannot know what you’re experiencing, all I can know is my life experiences.
I have spent the past 50 years living with aboriginal people, of all different types. Remote traditional, educated town dwelling, itinerant drunks, full bloods through to almost white. I spent 30 of those years as a paediatric nurse caring for remote, sick aboriginal children whilst educating their mothers about hygiene, nutrition etc. I have participated in traditional cultural activities in remote communities. I have attended university graduation ceremonies for aboriginal people. I have given birth to aboriginal children and now have 29 aboriginal descendants.
In a nutshell, I have 50 years of extensive contact with aboriginal people and I can tell you that the overwhelming majority are no more unhappy than the average Australian.
Certainly they wish for more , and better, but who doesn’t?

Big Nana you are a breath of fresh air in a Cesspool of Sewage.

CL: we should indeed have polls that ask Aborigines about their views, like we do everything else.

& How do you think the Redfern Cowboy’s would respond.

Loudmouth2: More than 90 % were enrolling in standard, mainstream degree-level study.

Yes. Socialist inspired Social Science designed to destroy the White man. Ay.

LM2: This young lady has been one of them.

As can be seen by this young lady’s attitude to White Australia.

LEGO: The best thing that ever happened to the aboriginal race in 50,000 years was the coming of the British. If it had been the Germans or the Japanese, they would all be dead. If it had been the Muslims they would all be slaves.

As I iterated many times. You are correct.

Can we hear from Samantha or does she even know we are discussing her comment? Is her comment hers or taken from someone else’s paper. I thought I’d saved it, but what Samantha has written is almost exactly the same as a paper by some Aboriginal Academic yesterday. Plagiarism?

Ok JayB, Thanks for that. Apparently a poll would focus on Redfern alone.

Good Afternoon Folks,

In order to understand and get the full picture - one
has to look at the entire scope and complete scope
of things. Statistics can vary depending on places,
locations, circumstances, et cetera.

It is generally well known that Aboriginal people are
massively over-represented in the criminal justice
system of Australia. They represent only 3% of the
total population, yet more than 29% of Australia's
prison population are Aboriginal.

Since 2004 the number of Aboriginal people in custody
has increased by 88% compared to a 28% increase for
non-Aboriginal Australians. In 1992 one in seven
prisoners was Aboriginal by 2020 that ratio had risen to
one in 4.

Australia's proportion of adult Aboriginal prisoners ranges
from 9% in Victoria to 84% in the Northern Territory.

Mark O'Reilly, Principal Legal Officer, Central Australian
Aboriginal Legal Aid Service in 2011 said - "The Alice
Springs Prison is so far beyond capacity that it's
refusing to take prisoners".

Charts from the Australian Bureau of Statistics show
Aboriginal people represent an average 17% of the prison
population except in WA and the NT where they account for
43% and 84%. Aboriginal people make up less than 5%
of each state's population except for the NT where they
account for 31.6%.

Since 1989 the imprisonment rate of Aboriginal and Torres
Strait Islander people has increased 12 times faster than
the rate for non-Aboriginal people. In December 2019 the
rate was 2,536 prisoners per 100,000 adult Aboriginal
population compared to 218 prisoners per 100,000 non-
Aboriginal population.

Data from ABS shows from 2000 to 2012 imprisonment rates
for Aboriginal Australians increased from 1,727 to 2,346
Aboriginal prisoners per 100,000 adult Aboriginal population
in comparison the rate for non-Aboriginal increased from
122 to 154 per 100,000 adult non-Aboriginal population.

In order to understand - as stated earlier - it depends
where people live and their circumstances. Everything needs
to be looked at critically in its context - if looked
only through a narrow prism - one gets a very slanted view.

I'm not sure if the author of this article is reading
our posts. I hope she is and that she does not
get too disheartened by some of the comments.

Lets face it the nation persists in governing our
Indigenous people in ways that are harmful to them with
the conviction that if they find the right policies, the
right funding, the right set of incentives, their lives
will somehow improve. This is a colonial fantasy.

There have been moments of hope - for example - the
1967 Referendum, the Mabo Court case on land rights in
1992, the bridge walk in 2000. Prime Minister Kevin Rudd's
2008 apology for Stolen Generation, all gave hope.
But something far more radical is required.

The success of an Indigenous middle-class does NOT obscure
the fact that for the MAJORITY of Indigenous people
government policies and programs have made little positive
difference to their quality of life.

Over many decades Australian government policies in
Indigenous affairs have been marked by 2 things -
1) constant re-invention and constant resistance
to the ONE thing that Indigenous people want -
2) The ability to control and manage their own lives.

They have consistently called for greater control over their
own destinies. So long as governments fail to address
this and as long as they suppress the desires of our
Indigenous people for a greater say - the policies and
programs directed at them will continue to flounder.

These people need to control their own systems regarding
what is important to them - such as - health, education,
law, and justice - things that matter to them.

The Uluru Statement From The Heart did not ask for much.
Yet it was rejected outright without so much as a debate.

And we still keep asking - how can we reconcile? What
can we do?

The problem lies not with our Indigenous people.
The problem is US! They keep telling us what they want.
Our governments refuse to listen and act on it.

Jayb,

That's a stupid thing to say - how do you 'know' that Indigenous students are doing 'socialist-inspired' study ?

If you want the latest break-down of which courses are Indigenous students enrolled in, it's on that website. To save you trouble, in 2018,

* 1,756 commenced studies in Health (Medicine, Podiatry, Paediatrics, Optomoetry, Physiotherapy, etc.)

* 951 commenced studies in Education - at least fifteen thousand Indigenous students have commenced studies in Education since 2000;

* around 1,800 commenced studies in IT, Business, Architecture, Engineering, Agriculture (about bloody time), Management and Commerce.

Any other whinge ?

Joe

One final addition that I forgot to add -
in relation to the past administrations of
Aboriginal affairs - it should be recognised that
Aboriginal people have continuously resisted the
imposition of much of government's legislation.

The official records reflect this opposition and
contain letters written by Aboriginal people seeking
to recover their land, their right to vote, their
children returned, to receive their citizenship rights,
and so on. It's all on record.

There's more at the following link:

http://www.theconversation.com/indigenous-reconciliation-in-australia-a-bridge-too-far-54336

Take care.
Stay safe.

Foxy,

In a number of Aboriginal communities where they had "The ability to control and manage their own lives", the Howard government was forced to intervene and send in the army to protect children and women from sexual and physical abuse. The intervention was welcomed by most women for obvious reasons.

And, while I support the principles behind the Uluru statement, it failed to say how Aboriginal representation to the federal Parliament would work, how its members would be elected, what powers it would have, etc, etc. In other words, it deserved to be considered little more than a thought bubble. Instead of rejecting it, however, Turnbull should have said something like 'Nice try, but we won't reject or accept it because we want you to go back and answer the obvious questions of how it would work etc."

Foxy, you keep repeating the same mantra. Can you please tell us exactly what is stopping aboriginal people managing their own lives?
What is stopping them using traditional medicine men and bush medicine? What is stopping them eating their traditional food? What is stopping them walking around wrapped in possum skins?
What is stopping them running their schools the way they want?
As for justice system, are you saying you would like to dispense with punishment for aboriginal people who break the law? For murder, for assault, for rape ,for armed home invasion? Because those are the crimes the majority of aboriginal people are locked up for. Only about 5% are in for so-called minor crimes.
And you do realise that under traditional aboriginal law, rape, kidnapping, assault, infanticide and capital punishment were all legal, don’t you?
Please don’t answer with your usual rhetoric of epic proportions. I would like you to simply give some actual examples of aboriginal choice being denied.

not sure of persons's name, but an Aboiginal activist just stated (heard) on ABC radio that Aboriginal law should be incorporated into common law.

She also stated that Aboriginals lived harmoniously together prior to Europeans coming.

Good luck to both sides accepting the truth of the past.

Dear Foxy,

Thank you for pointing out that there are plenty of Indigenous records. Yes, indeed - everybody who came to the attention of any authorities had a file - as indeed they should, like all of us, that's simply part of every government's fiduciary duties. Those records would include all documentation relating to the taking of children into care, and returning.

I'm always struck by two facts:

* as far as I can tell, no Indigenous child was ever taken into the largest orphanage in SA, at Goodwood.

* how strange it is that no law firm, such as, say, Maurice Blackburn or Slater and Gordon, has ever, it seems, been approached by any Indigenous person with their file, to prepare a charge of 'stolen children' against some government department. Not one person, let alone thousands 'stolen'.

And s Big Nana says, people have had control over their affairs for nearly fifty years or more now. The problem seems to be that, along with the power that control delivered, went responsibilities, obligations, duties, which most community members were not equipped (or, for family reasons, prepared) to handle.

As well, looking back, I suspect that on many issues, even land rights, complainants didn't really expect any outcomes (since all whites are bastards), and didn't know what to do when they got what they asked for.

As well, in relation to land, there seemed to be an assumption that, if anybody owned land, the government would pay them each year as a sort of reward. After all, pastoralists seemed to get money from somewhere every year and, if anything, they had less responsibilities each year, since they sent a lot of their cattle and sheep away somewhere. So why aren't Blackfellas being paid each year for their land ?

[TBC]

[continued]\

Foxy,

I recall in one community that we lived at, the DAA offered to buy up the next-door property (4000 acres of cleared land, with about 30 acres of grapes) for the community, contiguous with their own land - that, or six houses. The council set about demolishing six older houses and took the second option.

I was trying to set up a youth club at the time, and we asked for one of the older houses as a club-house. Organised youth was anathema to the council, so they engineered the vandalism of one house, then banned the youth club. Then, of course, demolished that house.

Once bitten, twice shy, Foxy :)

Love,

Joe

I have no inclination to argue with either Big Nana
she goes by what's happening in her own backyard and
doesn't see the bigger picture) and -
or Joe (Loudmouth) same goes for him. He relies
on
what he calls _ "primary sources" except the sources he
refers to are all written (or gotten rid of) by white
protectors) - about anything concerning our
Indigenous people. Been there done that - and no matter
what facts are presented to them both - nothing ever suits their
rigid views. Joe doesn't believe in stolen generations,
or Indigenous people being herded onto missions, et cetera.
He's a big admirer of Keith Windschuttle -a man who made
his career out of promoting and excusing white superiority.

Big Nana - if you were to delve into the histories of
our Indigenous people in this country perhaps, just perhaps
you would get a smattering of why some of the problems
exist today. Right up until relatively recently the
Australian government has sought to create a single
uniform WHITE Australian culture.

This was pursued through assimilation policies which had
devastating effects on Indigenous communities.

I won't write any more - because you don't like long
posts. And I'm getting tired of explaining things to
someone who's not really interested. Talk to Joe -
he'll explain things in a much shorter way - I'm sure.

Take care
Stay safe.

Totally agree Foxy, Big Nana that notion that Aboriginal people are seeking, or should, return to some previous traditional lifestyle is not reality. Its also not true that all of us, including Indigenous people, have this boundless free choice in life to determine our own destiny. Circumstance of ones birth, up bring, that environment of early life, all influences the final outcome of who we are. Sure, some have a rather terrible up bring, yet manager to beat the odds and succeed into adulthood, but they are more the exception than the rule.

"A man was given a dog, everyday the man beat the dog. One day the man lent down to pat the dog, the dog bit the man. A terrible vicious dog it was, the man killed the dog. The man had no choice, it was a terrible vicious dog, the dog had chosen to bite the man."

Addressing Foxy's fairy land points.

Those aboriginal settlements who have kept their land and largely kept their culture at taxpayer's expense are the ones that are the most dysfunctional. The two authors who wrote the "Little Children are Sacred" report, visited 45 aboriginal communities in the Northern Territory. They didn't find child sexual abuse in some of those communities they found it in every single community; 45 out of 45.

These self governing communities who supposedly want white people to leave them alone are usually run by "big men" who have an appalling record of sexual assaults, economic mismanagement, and outright fraud. ATSIC was disbanded because corruption within this self governing body was so bad that the Federal government considered it unreformable. Justice O'Keefe said that the reason so many aboriginal settlements are poverty stricken is because "aboriginal leaders are ripping off their own people."

Corruption on self managed aboriginal communities was so bad that the Howard government, with Federal Labour support, instituted the Intervention" policy which completely by passed the aboriginal leaders and their sticky fingers. This is why the aboriginal leaders are now demanding that there be "Recognition" for aboriginal leadership with themselves keepers of the cash till, because they want to go back to ripping their own people off. And all they had to do to get their fingers back in the till was to couch their grab for power and money in such a way that it sounded like some virtuous aboriginal need for self management.

They played Foxy and her ABC luvvie class like fish because they knew which emotional buttons to push to have the luvvie caste come out virtue signalling and strutting around in the pose of moral sanctity.

"Aboriginal middle class success" looks suspiciously to me to be composed of primarily white people with a small amount of aboriginal DNA obtaining no end of government benefits and preferential treatment in regards to plush and well paying government jobs. Like the "big men in black hats and beards" the present unacceptable situation regarding aboriginal dysfunction suits them just fine.

LEGO,

I mostly agree with your last post but need to mention that "Aboriginal middle class success" is real. I visited the Argyle diamond mine in about 1997 and met a group of Aboriginal tradesmen from the Kimberley, all of whom had their trade qualifications and were earning very good money. When I asked one Aboriginal person about his circumstances, he said he lived in Halls Creek and was saving money to move his wife and children out of town as soon as he could afford to buy a house to remove his family from the crime in that town.

Foxy: It is generally well known that Aboriginal people are
massively over-represented in the criminal justice
system of Australia. They represent only 3% of the
total population, yet more than 29% of Australia's
prison population are Aboriginal.

Would that be because they commit the crimes?

Foxy: Australia's proportion of adult Aboriginal prisoners ranges
from 9% in Victoria to 84% in the Northern Territory.

Would that be because NT has a much greater Aboriginal Population than Victoria?

Foxy: if looked only through a narrow prism - one gets a very slanted view.

Yep, something I’m sure you know a lot about. Ay.

Loudmouth2: That's a stupid thing to say - how do you 'know' that Indigenous students are doing 'socialist-inspired' study?

Are they at University? Are Universities a hotbed of Socialist pushing their Socialist agenda. The Answer to both those questions is a resounding, “Yes.” Ay.

BM: the Howard government was forced to intervene and send in the army to protect children and women from sexual and physical abuse. The intervention was welcomed by most women for obvious reasons.

Yes he did & the ones who were doing the abusing complained & the City University & Redfern Rabble joind them. Ay.

BM: I support the principles behind the Uluru statement,

Oh Wow! Stopping people climbing the Rock has cut Tourism there to almost nothing & they sent a submission to the Government to get a Grants to prop-up their failing Tourism Industry. Good one.

Big Nana: I would like you to simply give some actual examples of aboriginal choice being denied.

You will just get an ocean of deflection.
Cont.

cont

CL: She also stated that Aboriginals lived harmoniously together prior to Europeans coming.

She should do some research. The Aboriginal Tribes were constantly at war with one another. Just listening to the Stories told to me by both my Grandparents.

LEGO: Corruption on self- managed aboriginal communities was so bad that the Howard government, with Federal Labour support, instituted the Intervention" policy which completely by passed the aboriginal leaders and their sticky fingers. This is why the aboriginal leaders are now demanding that there be "Recognition" for aboriginal leadership with themselves keepers of the cash till, because they want to go back to ripping their own people off. And all they had to do to get their fingers back in the till was to couch their grab for power and money in such a way that it sounded like some virtuous aboriginal need for sel- management.

Big Nana, Coming from North Queensland should know of the three (one now deceased) who ran the Aboriginal Agencies in Townsville who ripped off the Aboriginal Agencies for years. Taking it in turns to be the President & Treasure & Secretary. The moneys would go missing over years, that Agency would be disbanded & a new one started, with the same three wonderful & highly though of ladies. I actually Dated one when I was at School in Ayr in the early 60’s.

BM: group of Aboriginal tradesmen from the Kimberley, all of whom had their trade qualifications and were earning very good money.

I knew a lot of Aboriginal & Islander blokes who were Tradesmen. (Railway Workshops) in Townsville. All good blokes & ashamed of the “Parkies.” Especially the drunken old lady who would go to the Pubs at lunch time bumming for Cigarettes. “You give me cigarette. I show you my Muthoo.”.

Big Nanna

Maybe my last post will not be posted - shame.

Obviously OLO won't produce the truth "evidence" for discussion.

An issue what I dearly would have loved to discuss with you.

Shame on OLO.

Big Nanna

You are the perfect person who would have assisted in my comments.

However my post with evidence from Indigenous Banking Royal Commission speakers - will not be addressed, as to First Nation Issues.

Seriously - I am "silenced" by o.l.o. - shame on you.

What do Australians actually want -

1. No child asked to be born.

2. All children deserve education, love and family commitment in order to foster that child to aspire to their fulfil their dreams.

So what's not happening?

I'm gagged on this issue - as is the "Woke" community currently running Australia on Indigenous issues.

Big Nanna your response to Foxy -

"you keep repeating the same mantra. Can you please tell us exactly what is stopping aboriginal people managing their own lives?

Response - Please refer to recent Royal Commission in Banking for Indigenous Australians - which should advise problems.

You state - "What is stopping them using traditional medicine men and bush medicine?

My response - nothing.

You state - What is stopping them eating their traditional food?

My response - nothing.

You state - What is stopping them walking around wrapped in possum skins?

My response - Nothing, however, is this how you see any first nations people seeking a job in any society, dressed in possum skins seeking employment? - Seriously....do you really believe this.?

You state - What is stopping them running their schools the way they want?

My response - nothing. However, teachers trying to assist assimilation in order for students to learn the English language, in order to obtain their dreams and aspirations in society...are being hampered.

Would you like to tell me I am not correct?

You state _

" And you do realise that under traditional aboriginal law, rape, kidnapping, assault, infanticide and capital punishment were all legal, don’t you?

My response - Big Nanna - are you really seriously with above comment?

So the rape of any person - whether it be a child or baby - means nothing under traditional law?

Are you really serious - no child asked to be born, all children are INNOCENT and deserve to be the love of both parents in fostering, care safety and growth.

So I ask a simple question Big Nanna - what has happened in your past to state above comment.... as o.k. for Aboriginal people to be abused.

I note OLO still has not posted my original post of evidence of Aboriginal citizens to Royal Banking Commission.

Says a lot.

Maybe, just maybe OLO might like to research all evidence, as we all taped via Royal Commission into Banking.

Or are we going down the "woke" track - which assists no one.

Come on OLO you are better than this.

To Bernie Masters.

The problem being, who exactly is an "aboriginal"?

The way the legislation giving numerous benefits and exemptions to "aborigines" from the common law was framed, was that anybody who could trace their ancestory back to an indigenous ancestor could legally claim to be "aboriginal". One of the people who successfully sued TV opinion presenter Andrew Bolt, (who publically opined that many "aboriginal" people claiming benefits were not aboriginal at all) stated that he was 1/64th "aboriginal". He declared, therefore, that he was aboriginal. The court actually bought that doozy, even though the man's own mother said that as far as she was concerned, she was not aboriginal at all.

In South Africa, the USA and even elsewhere in Africa, mixed race Africans are often called "coloured", and they are generally considered smarter and much better behaved than the pure breds.

As to the "aboriginal" middle class, left wing activists lately have been cheering on the emergence of "aboriginal" doctors. This came about because of the dire shortage of medical practitioners willing to work in remote areas to patch up the wounded after the "sit down money" cheques came in, and the booze appeared from somewhere. However the medical courses for these "aboriginal" doctors was so dumbed down that they are considered suitable only for treating indigenous people in remote areas. They are not allowed to treat the general population.

Same for "indiginous" tradesmen. My own apprentices have told me that while every race, religion and culture is represented in their trade classrooms,
"aboriginal" apprentices are instructed entirely in their own separate classes where it is suspected that the courses are dumbed down. These "aboriginal" tradesmen are then sent off to mining companies who through anti discrimination legislation requiring "positive discrimination" are presumably forced to hire them.

All of this nonsense and government intervention is based upon a self evidently false premise, that is, that all races are equal. If this is not so, why do "aboriginal" people plead special consideration for their circumstances, and demand that they be "more equal" than others?

LEGO,

I'm not going to buy into your straw man arguments. You'll need to do better than just suggested some anecdotal stories about Aboriginal doctors and Aboriginal tradies being given 2nd rate training. Some real evidence would be appreciated please.

Foxy, once again you haven’t answered the question. You keep quoting other peoples words regarding oppression and disadvantages. It’s as though you can’t think for yourself. All people have suffered oppression and trauma in their past. I’m talking about today, now! What is stopping any aboriginal person following their dream and managing their own life?, Thousands of them seem to have done so already. They have started up their own private businesses, got a university degree, become a sports star, become a media or music star. Some have returned to country and live on an outstation close to nature. So, what is actually the problem you are talking about?
LEGO, regarding the second class qualifications,I have to confirm that I have grandchildren who have been put into these courses, where whites are not allowed to enrol and the Certificate 3 that is handed out, after very little actual study and a lot of watching instructional videos, isn’t worth the paper it’s written on, which is why a lot of employers in the north ignore that qualification.
The training for aboriginal health workers is closed to white people but I worked with many of them in the NT and some were barely literate and couldn’t read instructions for the drugs they were handing out, nor understand the nursing books they were supposed to study. Once they were “ qualified” they were sent back to their communities and allowed to diagnose and treat sick people. I actually wrote a letter of complaint (twice!) to the NT minister for health regarding this issue as my grandchildren were being cared for by these workers and were at risk. And no, I’m not saying all aboriginal health workers are incompetent, many are excellent, just many of those from remote communities but thankfully,mfrom contact with them lately, the system seems to be Improving.

SAINTS. So many questions.
Firstly the Royal Commission into banking. These rip off schemes don’t just affect aboriginal people they also affect illiterate and semi illiterate whites as well, just that proportionally, more blacks are illiterate. The answer to the whole issue is to ensure aboriginal kids are better educated. I’m in a perfect position to understand the deficits in education for these kids. I have 25 aboriginal grandkids and those who were educated in remote communities are way behind their peers. I currently am caring for a 12 year old granddaughter who has come into town to do her secondary education and she is working at the same level as her 9 year old sister, who also lives with me. The problem is not with the teachers, it’s with the parents, in towns as well as communities. Parents aren’t ensuring their kid’s get a goods nights sleep and go to school everyday rested, and with a full belly. Parents don’t encourage their kids to do homework or read a book.
Kids are regularly exposed to violence, drugs and alcohol at home so how can anyone expect them to do well. As always, this does not apply to all aboriginal families, just a section, but those kids are the ones who will grow up dysfunctional and end up in prison.
As regards my comments about the violence that is legal in aboriginal culture, I didn’t say I supported that, I was simply pointing out to Foxy that these are acceptable under traditional law, and interestingly, the elders in Arnhem Land as asking to return to traditional law and have police removed from their communities. I am presuming they wish to be allowed to legally enforce the underaged, promised wife law that is currently illegal but still happens.
And no, I’m not expecting aboriginal people to go to job interviews dressed in possum skins, that was simply in response to Foxy’s constant claim that aboriginal people aren’t free to run their own lives.

Big Nana,

We've been over this so many times in the past
and I find it unbelievable that you're still
banging on about what's stopping Aboriginal people
from following their dreams.

One size does not fit all. And if you'd bothered to
read some of the links I've given you now and in the
past you would have had the answers to your question.

There are among Aboriginal people enormous variations
in experiences and circumstances. Such variations must
always have existed but they also reflect the extent to
which Aborigines have been subjected to external contact
and the very different responses different groups have
adopted to such contact.

Aboriginals living in more remote regions will have
different lives to those living in for some time in and
around cities or larger country towns.

The situation varies greatly in different areas and is
influenced by factors like - economic development, the
level of Aboriginal and non-Aboriginal population, the
degree of government intervention or non-intervention,
land rights, the outstation movement and the internal
dynamics of particular communities.

Social, economic and legal difficulties are common to
Aboriginal people wherever they live and there are
many similarities in Aboriginal responses to such
difficulties.

It is therefore important to be aware of varying legal
and other needs and demands of Aboriginals in remote areas
compared to those in urban and semi-urban areas and of the
consequent need for care and flexibility in formulating
recommendations for change.

However, you who claims to have lived amongst Aboriginal
people for so many decades should be well aware of
the disparity between Indigenous and non-Indigenous
Australians. And the inequality that includes -
1) shorter life expectancy,
2) Higher rates of infant mortality.
3) Poorer health.
4) Lower levels of education and employment.
5) Racism and Discrimination.
6) Cultural disconnection.

All of those things impact on a person's health, especially
mental health issues and can result in alcohol and
illicit drug use, family violence, and trauma.

Foxy: the inequality that includes -
1) shorter life expectancy,
2) Higher rates of infant mortality.
3) Poorer health.
4) Lower levels of education and employment.

Mostly affect Outback Communities

5) Racism and Discrimination.
6) Cultural disconnection.

Mostly affecting Townie Communities.

7, 8, 9, 10, 11) Mental health issues and can result in alcohol and
illicit drug use, family violence, and trauma.

Mostly affecting both Communities.

As I said previously Big Nana, "You are a breath of fresh air in a sewer." Some people don't like to be told they don't know what they are talking about because it doesn't go along with the current PS Socialist dictum. Ay.

Jayb,

Jesus was a socialist.

Jesus - The Middle-Eastern Jew
most people wouldn't sit next to
on an airplane.

Ay!

Foxy,

Thank you for your valiant efforts in trying to teach Big Nana, with her fifty years' experience, how to suck eggs. We're so fortunate that you have consulted such a lot of books. That makes such a lot of difference.

Now, which end is it again ?

Joe

PS. Sorry, dear, you haven't got a bloody clue.

Foxy. "Higher rates of infant mortality."

Case 1. Deborah Melville.

Foster child Deborah died in the dirt in a suburban Darwin backyard, propped against a trailer. She was suffering from a leg infection which had spread into the bone, and was visited by FACS case workers the day before she died. A FACS worker assured the child, “I am not here to take (steal) you away.”

Case 2. Peter.

Seven week old Peter starved to death in the back of a hot car on the Stuart Highway in 2005. Peter was born to a drug using mother who’s six other children were known to FACS. In 2002, one of the children, a daughter, was taken (stolen?) and taken to Alice Springs Hospital at three months old, “haunted and looking like a bony skeleton.” Peter at death weighed 1kg less than his birth weight.

Case 3 Sandra In one case, FACS refused repeated requests from the police to take (steal) a 16 year old aboriginal girl into care who was sniffing solvents, selling sex for money and drugs, and associating with criminals in her outback town, deeming her “conditionally safe.” At 16 years old, Sandra weighed only 32 Kg and in 2007 was admitted to hospital “in a state of near total physical collapse.”

Case 4 Alice Alice Haines now lives in Canberra, but she lived on and off in Toomelah when she was young."As a child I had experience being sexually abused by many men," she told 7.30. Report. "I can't comprehend how bad it got, but I think it's as bad as it can ever get ... being sodomised since you were two years of age or however young you are.

AAP February 2010.

THE Victorian government has dumped the board of a stolen generations support group, cut its funding and called in the police to investigate alleged misappropriation of funds.

Since you presumably oppose white "racists" "stealing" aboriginal children, Foxy, is it not your own caste of activist ABC luvvies who are the problem real problem when it comes to infant mortality?

sounds like black lives don't matter to much Lego to many of their own. I have seen it time and time again but it does not fit Foxy's or the regressives narrative. Truth always gets in the way for them.

Dear Joe,

To what are you referring exactly, when you say that
I don't have a "bloody clue?"

Do tell.

By the way - I do more than just "read books,"
I've actually catalogued various records, films,
newspaper articles,
documents, oral histories and many other references
on the issues involved. I also have listened to various
speakers who have lived and experienced and shared
their experiences. You don't seem inclined to read
or acknowledge anything that does not suit your rigid
and narrow view point.

You are in no position therefore to judge any one else's
opinion when you have such a narrow perspective yourself.

BLACK LIVES MATTER, as tens of thousands of good Australians rallied around the country in solidarity, showing support for our indigenous brothers and sisters. The wife and I made it as far as South Bank in Brisbane on the train, to meet up with our niece who invited us along. I'm told it was the biggest protest seen in Brisbane, and around Australia in years, despite the virus fears. The only news report of an arrest was in Sydney when a white supremacist, was he from this forum, tried to assault a speaker down at the town hall. It good to see decent people of all ages and nationalities come together to protest injustice. Racism is not dead, far from it, but its end will come.

http://7news.com.au/news/health/thousands-at-blm-rally-in-brisbane-c-1082971

So Foxy, you have basically confirmed that nothing is stopping aboriginal people from directing their own lives. There is no government directive that stops them from moving to a place of higher employment if they choose. There is no law that stops them making better choices regard food intake. There is no physical impediment to them practising better hygiene in their homes. There is no barb wire fence around the nearest police station to stop them reporting domestic violence and child abuse.
There is no colour bar at the local school that prevents their children from attending every day.
And not only are they not prevented from travelling to towns and cities to get better education and jobs, they are actually demanding better roads by which to get there.
And before you accuse me of saying people should leave their home country and insist that the government provides every modern facility money can buy for those communities so they don’t have to leave, I would like to point out they they have already been leaving in droves, many just to access alcohol, others because they prefer living in towns, and despite having schools, clinics , stores etc in their communities many still prefer town life, despite having to squeeze into already overcrowded homes there. For the same reasons they don’t bother speaking language any more, or practise proper traditional, they are abandoning their traditional lands because Bush life can never offer the same as town life. And those who prefer bush life aren’t very fussed about kids education or employment or a spotless house.
For those whose families have been in towns and cities for generations, there is no excuse at all why they cannot avail themselves of the multitude of services that now abound for indigenous people.
My husband had a common lament. He used to say that aboriginal people would never be equal with non aboriginals until they are treated equally, in all matters, responsibilities as well as rights.

Paul1405

Then there is this from an indigenous professor
Quote

“ So much has been said this past week in response to the shocking death of a Minnesota man and the hands of a dumb police officer.
All can agree, that this (former) officer’s actions, and that of his colleagues who stood by and watched him, are atrocious.

Sadly, the fallout from this act of stupidity has had a flow on effect in Australia.
Some activists reading that last sentence will reply with “Oh but it’s important, it’s solidarity …”

No, it’s just an excuse to protest for the sake of protesting.
I am all for people fighting for a cause they feel strongly about and taking to the streets if they feel that is the best way to deliver, what they believe, is an important message.
But what we are seeing now is ridiculous. If this was just a comedy show I would be laughing. But the antics of activists, social justice warriors, and their rent-a-crowds only move Australia backwards.

These professional protesters are latching onto the Aboriginal deaths in custody issue to enable them to justify their confected outrage and go out marching with their protest signs that say: ‘Black lives matter’.

For Aboriginal deaths in custody, let’s provide some context here.
Aboriginal Australians in custody are less likely to die than non-Aboriginal Australians in custody...

The ‘outrage’ from protesters for deaths in custody is about as authentic as Australia Day protests.“. Unquote

Go figure eh?

I must admit, I find this claim by Samantha Cooper to be somewhat laughable.

What we have is a pale skinned blue eyed woman whose aboriginality I believe is more about getting free stuff from the government and cushy job than any real attachment.

In the same vein I am English, Irish, German, Dutch, French, Italian and Russian, yet somehow unable to get these passports due to their racism.

Looks more like I have you on the back foot, Bernie Masters. Everything I wrote about this mythical "aboriginal middle class" was supported by Big Nana.

Get it through your head that there is a very significant number of people who are 1/4, 1/8, 1/16, or 1/32 "aboriginal" , at least one that I know who has blue eyes and blond hair, who are legally classified as "indigenous", which allows them to mine the gold of the ever swelling $60 billion p.a. aboriginal welfare budget. Some of these middle class "aborigines" were born of middle class parents and lived in privileged areas of capitol cities. As Trump would say, they are "the swamp."

Bess Price is an aboriginal activist who really does look like an aboriginal. She was born in a humpy and spent her life as a child living in the dirt. But when Bess supported John Howard's "Intervention", which by passed the aboriginal "big men's" stranglehold on aboriginal funding in remote areas, it was the university educated middle class European looking "aboriginal" swamp who attacked her like a bunch of sharks.

Some of her critics had gotten first class treatment all the way because of their legal "aboriginality." Scholarships to Cambridge, and then very well paying directorships and "chairs" to a multitude of state and federal government organisations set up to supposedly alleviate the plight of indigenous Australians, which for all their massive funding, appear to have no effect.

Please note that the European looking "aboriginal" author of this whiny article said that she had three jobs. And I suspect that every one of them is a cushy government job and a nice little earner. For all the feigned moral outrage and claims to be only interested in aboriginal advancement, too many "aboriginal" spokespersons seem to be doing just fine out of the present unacceptable situation, and one suspects that they want it to continue. All they have to do is keep beating the racism drum, keep demanding more money, and wonderful, kind, caring, and completely naive people like Foxy will diligently virtue signal to support them

Hi Foxy, don't you realise poor people choose to be poor? All they have to do is move to the rich part of town and then they would be rich people, problem solved.

Galen, you invoke a quote from an "indigenous professor" to add weight to your argument, yet you fail to name the so called professor. Why not?

SM, Samantha Cooper should apologise because she doesn't fit the racists sterotype of what an aboriginal woman should look like, . Adolf Hitler didn't look like the Aryan type, blond haired, blue eyed, he didn't apologise!

LEGO
I'm not sure why you're critical of my past comments. All I'm saying is that, for reconciliation to work, Aboriginal people need to be prepared to hear and tell the truth the same as white people. My attitude is little different to that expressed by Big Nana who wrote "My husband had a common lament. He used to say that aboriginal people would never be equal with non aboriginals until they are treated equally, in all matters, responsibilities as well as rights." which I interpret to mean that Aboriginal people need to accept their responsibilities, including to telling the truth.
And, no, I'm not saying white Australians should apologise as no living Australian has anything to apologise for from 100+ years ago.

To all those claiming "I will not be made to feel guilty about the past" I offer this observation.

Does the world expect German citizens born today to feel guilty about the atrocities carried out by the Nazis during W.W. II? Absolutely not. But the difference between Germany today and bigoted Australians today is that German citizens accept and face up to the truth of what occurred during the war. Some Australians refuse to recognise the truth of our history.

In my mind they are the Australian equivalent of a Holocaust Denier.

Aries54
Aboriginal people are just as guilty as white Australians in not being prepared to accept the truth about past history and some current Aboriginal cultural practices. Until everyone publicly accepts the truth, reconciliation will continue to fail to lift Aboriginal quality of life.

Paul1405

Here you go

Dr Anthony Dillon
Postdoctoral Research Fellow
MTrainDev, Mpsych (Clin), BSc (Hons), PhD

How about you respond to the comments he made rather than avoiding it

Galen

Calling occupants of OLO Craft.

Enough of the injustices done to our black brothers (and sisters) in OZ.

Let us consider the Big Time - that is American oppression of its minorities.

Doubtless dwell on following sage words from freedom loving socialist forces:

"US President Donald Trump said on Monday that he will deploy the military to restore order if states cannot quell the chaos quickly. Earlier the same day, Republican Senator Tom Cotton threatened in a tweet that the US could sent "the 10th Mountain, 82nd Airborne, 1st Cav, 3rd Infantry - whatever it takes to restore order," adding "no quarter for insurrectionists, anarchists, rioters, and looters."

The riots in the US have lasted just a week, efforts for reaching a peaceful solution have barely been made, yet, Trump and Cotton have blatantly put their chips - sending troops to quell protests - on the table. This could be argued as the most extreme response to disorder among governments across the world.

Then why did Washington arrogantly and unreasonably accuse other countries of quelling riots? Why did politicians in Washington overbearingly portray the US as the beacon of democracy and human rights? Have they really not anticipated that the US could one day confront the situation as it does today and that their previous big talk could become a slap on their face?

People see the US falling into disgrace. As the novel coronavirus sweeps across the world, the US ranks No.1 in terms of confirmed cases and deaths. As anti-racist protests surge, the government and Congress should have taken quick action to comfort their people, but have instead exacerbated confrontation and led to the spread of the chaos. What is more irritating is that US political elites have played hypocrisy and barbarism. The hooligan nature of Washington makes it a complete nuisance."

But this set of tactics by Washington can hardly work now. One needs hard and soft power and overwhelming deterrence to play double standards, but now the US doesn't have enough of such power.

Equally importantly, US interests are gradually falling apart from international society. Washington selfishly puts its own interests as priority and seeks "America first" brazenly. Its appeal and ability to defend itself are shrinking.

Many people around the world are making a comparison of riots in Hong Kong and those in the US. The US was still aggressively calling on its allies to put pressure on Beijing over the Hong Kong affairs last week. Trump announced measures to sanction Hong Kong for the Chinese central government's decision to enact a national security law for Hong Kong. But it's noticeable that there is not much substance in Washington's decision and US allies were not enthusiastic in following suit.

The US remains the strongest power in the world, but its strength is not enough to support its ambition of reshaping the global order. The country has too many urgent domestic issues. US failure in containing the COVID-19 epidemic has exposed severe deficiencies in the country's governance. The ongoing unrest exposes the deep-rooted problem of inequality and a lack of justice, reflecting the anger of the people at the bottom and the destruction when such anger is vented in the internet era.

China has shown patience toward the Hong Kong riots. Enacting a national security law for the city is one of the fundamental measures to solve the problem. Does the White House believe that deploying the military can solve its deep-seated problems? This is wrong. If the US cannot even contain the novel coronavirus, how can it soothe people's rage toward racial discrimination and social injustice that are everywhere?

The US political elites should be realistic and stop arbitrarily escalating external confrontations and playing party politics. They should figure out what the American people really need and help them fulfill their wishes."

There you have it Occupants of OLO Craft http://youtu.be/teBV0EoJJY8

Big Nana,

Your husband was right in his comment that
Aboriginal People would never be equal with
non-Aboriginal Australians until they are
treated equally in all matters - responsibilities
as well as rights and until they are given these as
they've been asking for decades. These things I've
stated to you over and over again -
directly and indirectly.

Until this happens government policies, programs,
incentives, money thrown at them - will all not
succeed and continue to flounder.

Glad we agree.

plantagenet
Comparing the police actions against Hong Kong protesters with 99% of the police actions against BLM protests in the USA is unreasonable and unfair. In the US, police have not been ordered to act with force, whereas HK police are following directions from Beijing.

US Covid 19 infection and death numbers are the highest in the world because, in part, of the large size of the US population. But, in per capita terms, the US is 8th or 9th in terms of deaths, with Ireland, UK, Sweden, Italy, Spain, etc with much higher per capita death rates.

Trump calling in the troops was a warning to looters and activists from the left and right who want these BLM protests to influence voters in November's presidential elections. What would you have done to stop the looting? And I wouldn't be surprised if most looting and violence was in cities under the control of Democrat governors who similarly wanted Trump to somehow be blamed for the terrible behaviour of a small number of state or town police.

Your biases are showing.

I am an Australian, and my people often make poor choices.

I have indigenous in me too, but this is irrelevant.
I wasn't raised into this culture so do not identify as such.

Galen, I see you dropped the "indigenous professor" bit. I'll refer to the gentleman in question as Anthony Dillon, AD for short, as he holds no special qualification in matters aboriginal, other than opinions. As for his aboriginality, from his photo some on here would fail him on that score, due to a skin pigmentation problem, too light.

I understand from reading, AD believes that the only way we will ‘Close the Gap’ between disadvantaged Indigenous Australians and the rest of the population is by ensuring that all Indigenous people have access to the opportunities that most Australians take for granted. This I agree with, Obviously AD recognises there is a gap in outcomes in key areas between indigenous and non indigenous, some denyers wont even recognise there is a gap. Good to see AD calling for that gap to be remedied.

After the opinions and supposition, using words like ridiculous, comedy show, laughing, antics, warriors, rent-a-crowds all that is offered as factual is this; "Aboriginal Australians in custody are less likely to die than non-Aboriginal Australians in custody..."

The facts; Australian Human Rights Commission Report Indigenous Deaths in Custody: Chapter 3
Comparison: Indigenous and Non-Indigenous Deaths.

3.1 Indigenous people were 16.5 times more likely than non-indigenous people to die in custody between 1990 and 1995. This rate reflects the disproportionately high number of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people in custody.

3.2 The disproportion in the rate of death was the highest in South Australia (31.7) followed by Victoria (18.8), New South Wales (17.0), Queensland (16.8), Northern Territory (7.7) and Tasmania (2.8).

3.3 Indigenous prisoners were 1.26 times more likely to die in prison than non-Indigenous prisoners.

Unless you can provide evidence of a massive turn around in the last 25 years, then the statement you attribute to Anthony Dillon is a blatant lie that must bring into question his credibility.

You got me buggered Bernie. You claimed that my reasoned argument about who really constitutes this mythical "aboriginal" middle class was "a strawman" argument, and then you seem upset when I threw a broadside back at you. Could you please pick one side of this argument or the other, and stay there?

To Paul1405. If you showed me a picture of a Viking and told me he was a Zulu, I would say that there is something wrong with your stereotype of a Zulu. I would not say that a Viking can just "identify" as a Zulu if he wants to. Nor should people who look clearly European, with blond hair and blue eyes, claim that they are "indigenous." You may call a cat "a bird" if you wish, but it still won't fly.

To Aries54. And what pray tell, is "the truth of our history?" London to a brick, you have never picked up a book about Australian history since you left school? One contributor to OLO only a week ago claimed that "Australians" had massacred aborigines. I asked them to provide names of these "Australians" and the dates, and locations where they had supposedly done these deeds. Naturally, I am still waiting for a reply. A reply I know will never come. And don't try that "stolen generations" crap on me. The High Court of Australia ruled it never happened, and that is why thousands of "stolen generation" court cases seeking compensation never eventuated. But I guarantee that you never knew that, did you?

I used to be an anti apartheid demonstrator until I realised that those who claim to be "anti racist" are simply "anti white." You are being used by Elmer Gantry type people, who know how to channel your youthful ideals into what you think is a fashionable cause that displays your identity, as a supposedly intelligent and virtuous young person. They know you will never pick up a book to check the facts. All you need do is to chant the mantra of "western democracies are racist" to fit right in.

Bernie

This shows how Hong Kong protesters smashed doors/windows of Hong Kong's Parliament http://www.abc.net.au/cm/rimage/11269926-4x3-xlarge.jpg?v=2

Hong Kong protesters then burst into and occupied Hong Kong's Parliament "smashing furniture and plastering graffiti on the walls" see http://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-07-02/hong-kong-police-regains-control-of-government-building/11269858

How would Trump's police and army react if US protestors smashed windows/doors of the White House or the US Capitol (Congress/Parliament) Building and then occupied these sacred US buildings?

Hey LEGO,

I have a book.
It's called 'Gungarlook : the story of the Aboriginal Riley family of Burragorang Valley',
- And my paternal grandmother's birth is listed in it.
http://www.worldcat.org/title/gungarlook-the-story-of-the-aboriginal-riley-family-of-burragorang-valley/oclc/694909385

There's a lot of interesting things in that book.
Like aboriginal tribal members being lined up along the gorge and shot during the Frontier Wars;
- Being forced out of the valley due to construction of the Warragamba Dam.
- And members of that family only offered lesser quality land with no water sources while non-aboriginal settlers got good parcels of land;

It also details how my great grandmother only had 2 of her many children in the same place (some towns no longer exist) due to her always moving around, scared that authorities would come and take the kids.
- And all her kids births and the places of birth are listed in there.

So before you go screaming 'read a book' please know some of us already have,
- And you're welcome to do so too, if you want to.

Paul, I suggest you study the actual official figures for deaths in custody rather than relying on biased human rights figures. There is a website titled National Deaths in Custody Program, publishing data due to recommendations from Deaths in Custody Program. Dr Anthony Dillon is correct, on a per capita basic of people in custody, whites are more likely to die and most deaths, black and white , are from natural causes. When you go to the website, when you open the PDF , scroll right down to the end, many pages, and you will find all the figures you want. Ages, numbers, types of crimes, gender, causes of death etc. going back to about 1989.

Here is a small extract from those pages. There is a multitude of graphs but can’t post them. This relates to police custody, there are pages of stats from deaths in prison as well.

“Across Australia, there were seven Indigenous deaths and eight non-Indigenous deaths in police custody in 2016–17 (Table B2). The Indigenous status was unknown for two deaths. Since 1989–90, non-Indigenous deaths in police custody have been consistently higher than Indigenous deaths in police custody (Figure 9).”

I used to be an anti apartheid demonstrator until I realised that those who claim to be "anti racist" are simply "anti white." Pray tell us LEGO when did you have your 'Road to Damascus Moment' which turned you from the evil ways of the left, and put you onto the virtuous holy road of the righteous right? I've heard a similar story of conversion from at least two other hard right wing forum posters in the past, you make number three.

Dear Paul,

Regarding the statistics on Aboriginal deaths
in custody here are the facts:

http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/jun/06/aboriginal-deaths-in-custody-434-have-died-since-1991-new-data-shows

The link is worth a read.

It's self explanatory.

Paul1405

Professor Anthony Dillon:-
Quote. Dr Anthony Dillon’s PhD centres on an investigation of the factors that predict parents’ acceptance or rejection of the ADHD diagnosis of their child. Anthony works full-time on research at IPPE. This entails supervising higher degree students, writing grant applications, and conducting research. In addition, he often provides guest lectures on Indigenous issues and is often asked for his opinion in interviews in the popular media. His teaching and research interests include alternative conceptualisations of mental health (particularly ADHD), statistics and psychometrics, applied psychology, and Indigenous health. Unquote.

I would think at least he knows quite a bit about indigenous issues, despite your counter claims.

Additionally, having viewed his photograph on more than one occasion he would appear to me to be indigenous, as much to Australia in the general population understanding of the term. What race would you mos likely describe him as? Polish I suppose!
Galen

To Paul1405.

Coming from a family of soldiers, I was quite happy to go to Vietnam and shoot a few commies. But I am also a student of military history and I know that too many young men had gone to war and died for nothing. I like to know what I am getting into. So I read books by journalists, soldiers, and historians about Vietnam, and realised that the war was crazy.

After the war ended, many young people like myself thought that right wing people were completely stupid and that we were going to change the world. South African apartheid was the next "cause celebre" for young people like myself who wanted to display our supposed superior intelligence and moral virtue. But just like Vietnam, I needed to know what I as talking about.

So I did the same thing I did with Vietnam, found out as much as I could, even reading what the Boers wrote about apartheid. Their premise was that black Africans had low intelligence, seemed to be genetically more inclined towards mindless violence than white people, and were incapable of running a modern society. I took that with a grain of salt until I saw white Rhodesia, (the bread basket of Africa) fall to the blacks, descend into mass slaughter where the whites fled, and now they are all starving to death.

Everything I see today supports the Boers view. Poverty and crime is primarily a product of low intelligence and if certain ethnicities are very disproportionately represented in inter generational welfare dependence and serious crime, then join the dots yourself.

What I see in the USA was a stupid white policeman who accidently killed a black man, probably because the white police is absolutely fed up of dealing with out of control blacks who never stop committing crimes. That was enough excuse for the dumbest and most violent segment of US society to riot and blame their lack of success on the white population, upon whom they are dependent for their welfare cheques.

It is Rhodesia all over again.

Hi Foxy, thanks for that link, I read it, and its very much as the situation is. Morrison and his trite indignation " shocking stuff from America, but nothing to see here" that's been the typical political mainstream reaction in Australia since Arthur Phillip was Governor. Found a new calling, after 25 years in industrial work, I spent 20 years of my life working in 'crisis housing' mostly for older people, in and around Australia's largest Aboriginal community the inner burbs of Sydney. I was not specifically involved in Aboriginal affairs, but my work did cross over with them from time to time. Today Western Sydney has surpassed Redfern as the largest indigenous community in Australia. It not the back blocks of the Kimberley where Big Nana has her experience of the 0.1% of the Aboriginal population, its here in the big cities. Brisbane has a sizeable indigenous, Maori and islander population as well, they all suffer a degree of social disadvantage. I'll recount my experience with an old bloke in Sydney, about 90 now, a God fearing man, regular church goer. He worked for 40 years as a screw in a maximum security prison in NSW. His attitude to black prisoners, could have come out of the sheriffs department handbook in Alabama in the 1930's. His attitude in a matter of fact way; "The only good darkies I ever come across was those hanging in their cells when I done the morning checks!" As I said a real Christian gentleman. How do we find them?

LAGO, I once came across a White Rhodesian at a social gathering in Sydney, he had fled the black terror of Zimbabwe, and settled as a "refugee" in Australia. The bloke opened up, telling all who cared to listen how in the "special forces" in Rhodesia he and his fellows would go out on 'turkey shoots', not with the intention of shooting birds, but black people. He may have been simply big noting, or he could have been telling the truth. One thing for certain, the bloke was racists to the core.

BTW, saying; "I was quite happy to go to Vietnam and shoot a few commies", tells me a lot about you. I take it you are in Africa, or at some stage been a part of White Africa.

Big Nana, so the 3% (indigenous) of the population accounted for 7 deaths in custody, and the 97% (non-indigenous) accounted for 8 deaths, in the cheery picked year 2016/17. Amazing, Joseph Goebbels, would do wonders with your statistics

To Paul 1405

I can only assume that like so many other young people, you have been conditioned (brainwashed) into accepting that "racism" is the "Original Sin"? Stop "racism" and society can rise into the sunlit uplands of utopia?

One problem with that idea (there are a lot more) is that everybody is racist, to one degree or another. I began to figure that out when I realised that the only possible explanation that the so called "anti racists" could give to explain away why so many ethnicities were always dysfunctional, was to blame the white guys.

I presume you know a bit of history? So you know that when Hitler blamed the Jews for the problems of the German people, that was racism. Using exactly the same logic, "anti racists" blaming the white race for the dysfunctions of every dysfunctional race, is racism also. Some "anti racists" have made extremely racist statements about white people that have been well publicised. "Anti racist" apologists tried to explain away these racist statements by saying that black people can not be racist. Which, if you have half a brain, you would know is a racist statement by itself.

There are two racist theories that explain minority dysfunction. The first racist theory hold that white people are entirely responsible for the fact that some ethnicities are grossly over represented in criminal behaviour and welfare dependency. The second, is that such dysfunctional ethnicities generally have low IQ's and a genetic predisposition to very violent behaviour, much more than other races.

Lock yourself in a room and turn on your critical analysis circuits. Switch off your cultural conditioning, and use reasoned logic to figure out which racist explanation for minority dysfunction is correct.

And to help you, ask yourself this. If white racism is so bad, why does every dysfunctional ethnicity try to barge into our countries? And how is it that the smart Asians, only fifty years ago as poverty stricken as the Africans and Muslims, now so prosperous? And why won't the smart Asians have a bar of African immigration?

lovely to see tens of thousands of people who hate old people and blacks for that matter protesting on the street over the weekend. Pity about those who can't go to a funeral or wedding. OH well the violent selfish abortionist are certainly the ones with virtue.

Paul, that figure was for one year only. All the other years in the stats the white deaths were higher per capita. Did you not read the final sentence? And why are you so unconcerned by all the white deaths?

runner,

It's so heart warming to see you continue to espouse
your concerns for the rights of a foetus.
However I'll ask again - if the foetus you save
turns out to be GAY will you continue to protect
its rights?

BTW - just because I don't agree with you does not make me
a "regressive" or a "hater" it just means you can't deal
with diversity as you claim you can.

Dear Paul,

Regarding statistics and documented facts?

I guess we shouldn't say that some people are not very
bright or that they're narrow-minded or biased.
That would be rude.

We can however say that they've got bad luck when it
comes to thinking. (Smile).

Foxy,

For god's sake. Indigenous people have had responsibilities, through community councils, for the best part of fifty years now. Whether they were aware of those responsibilities is debatable: on the communities that I am aware of, they immediately appointed whitefella administrators to handle all of those sorts of issues. Those administrators were careful never to disagree with a councillor.
But when they did not come up to speed - say, they didn't get the housing finance that the council wanted - they were sacked anyway and another whitefella appointed. That's called decision-making.

Running a community council, even for a very small community, is a very complex business - they might have pretty much all of the same issues as a very large council, only on a Lilliputian scale. And it's not a given that the people on the community have the necessary skills, any more than the people up and down your street or mine could run all of the affairs of the street. 'Community' is not 'Utopia'.

But people were given those responsibilities, and they have had them ever since, and still have them.

People make choices. Not necessarily sensible ones either.

Joe

Paul,

Each time you post I can be pretty sure that 90% of it is bollocks, as to how much is misunderstanding or pure ignorance and how much is pure made up lies is difficult to determine. Your poor spelling certainly gives me the impression of the former.

Firstly as Australia has accepted a total of zero whites from Zimbabwe as refugees, the fellow you describe never came over as a refugee.

Secondly, the only "Turkey shoots" that occurred involving special forces were the surprise attacks by the SAS and Selous Scouts on guerilla training bases in Zambia and Mozambique, and did not involve civilians. If you want details feel free to read the book on the Selous Scouts by Peter Stiff.

Finally, while there were undoubtedly atrocities committed by Rhodesian forces, it pales compared to the systematic horrors visited on locals by the "freedom fighters" in the name of re education.

That this fellow was "racists" (sic) there is no doubt, but as they say, one swallow does not a summer make.

Joe,

Why do they need the whitefellas to oversee black
communities and committees?

So what you're saying is that the blacs aren't capable
to govern themselves and make their own decisions.
Lack of experience? (wonder why?) or that they're just
ignorant, lazy bastards and need whitefellas to look
after them?

The fact that aboriginals are around 15 times more likely to go to prison than non-aboriginals is, apparently, proof that there is inherent and incessant racism in the Australian community to the detriment of said aboriginals and that measures must be taken to redress this.

Using the same logic...

The fact that men are around 19 times more likely to go to prison than non-men is, obviously, proof that there is inherent and incessant sexism in the Australian community to the detriment of said men and that measures must be taken to redress this.

I wonder how that'll fly?

Foxy,

No, that's exactly what I'm NOT saying - of course, Aboriginal people are as capable as any other group of ordinary people to learn how to manage their own affairs, but it may be that they also see 'self-determination' as the right to hire and fire people to do the work. Perhaps the councils saw themselves not so much as replacing the superintendent from previous days as replacing the Department which had employed him.

But the upshot was that they didn't seem to learn what was actually required to run the communities, that was passed over to someone who usually didn't even live on the place.

As well, the rule that nobody who worked for the community council could be a member of it (as with all rules in Aboriginal councils, that got bent a it) meant that nobody on the council was actually au fait with what was going on day-to-day, nor really cared that much about employment, jobs, projects, or the economic development of the place - except, of course, for getting huge amounts of funds to do something-or-other and to appoint yet more managers and directors of the new projects from the most powerful families. Whether it was going to work or not didn't seem to matter. So oversight of what one would have thought were key enterprises was pretty perfunctory.

Weird, but if anything, there seemed to be hostility from councillors towards any projects, even as they got funding for them. The aim seemed to be to wind down activity so that everybody could live a quiet life without the bother of employment.

My brother-in-law ran the brand-new dairy but when he asked for permission to fix up many of the fences which had fallen into disrepair, the council refused him funds. He tried get a neighbouring CDEP program to come in and fix them, since the community's CDEP program wouldn't, but that was also denied. So he had fewer and fewer paddocks to pasture his cows in over time. Somehow he managed, in spite of council opposition.

Weird, but that's how it worked.

Joe

Joe,

Problems are:

Many Indigenous Australians have spent years in
some cases their entire lives in mission and
government reserve communities. In those
environments, everything from employment
opportunities to daily supplies and schedules were
managed by external agencies.

Many of these people had been denied the opportunity to
manage their own finances and of course when
they suddenly began receiving regular
payments problems arose. And those who'd long been denied leadership
roles were asked to manage complex administration and
unfamiliar bureaucracy.

Many of these communities didn't have the
capacity, the skills, training, experience, to manage
their own affairs according to government requirements.
In many cases this also resulted in new challenges and
problems.

During the Howard years ATSIC was abolished allegedly due
to mismanagement, causing some people to claim that the
self-determination approach to Indigenous affairs had
failed.

Yet we can also argue that ATSIC was never sufficiently
independent from government interference, concluding that
self determination has never been properly tested in
Australia despite previous governments adopting the term
to describe their TOP-DOWN approach.

However one way or another - the concept of self-
determination as a process whereby Indigenous communities
take full control of their failures and decide how they
will address the issues facing them remains central to
Indigenous rights activism and is fundamental to the
United Nation's International Declaration on the Rights
of Indigenous Peoples.

mhaze,

More women in Australia are going to prison than ever
before. In the past 10 years there's been a 75% increase in
women's ratio of incarceration.

White men make-up the majority of the Australian prison
population. The number of women entering the prison system
is increasing at a much faster rate.

Just over a third of female prisoners in Australia are
Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander. This is particularly
significant given Indigenous women comprise just 2% of the
general female population in Australia.

Evidence suggests that the majority of women in prison
are victims of domestic violence. Somewhere between 70%
and 90% pf incarcerated women have been physically,
sexually, or emotionally abused at some point in their
lives.

http://www.womensagenda.com.au/latest/more-women-in-australia-are-going-to-prison-than-ever-before-heres-why/

To foxy. Aboriginal dependence was the problem and self determination is the answer? Not according to this letter.

Aboriginal literacy declining Letter to the Editor

The Australian March 16 2010

When I worked at Kununurra about five years ago, it was common to see a group of young men from Wadeye being escorted by an older man in the town centre. The young men needed the old man because the young men could not speak sufficient English to make themselves understood, and could not write well enough to withdraw money from their bank account. The old man, schooled in a mission school, could do both quite well.

The culture of aversion to school at Wadeye is years old. How come we have another generation being schooled in the same dysfunctional manner?

Chris Squelch, Mount Isa, Queensland.

'runner,

It's so heart warming to see you continue to espouse
your concerns for the rights of a foetus.
However I'll ask again - if the foetus you save
turns out to be GAY will you continue to protect
its rights?

BTW - just because I don't agree with you does not make me
a "regressive" or a "hater" it just means you can't deal
with diversity as you claim you can.

Foxy

The baby in the mothers womb will be born with a corruptible nature just like you and me. Growing up he/she will make choices in regards to fornicate, commit adultery or participate in homosexual activity.

I use the word regressive because for the last 50 years Marxist have pretended to be progressive. They see freedom to have sex with whoever , whenever and with whomever or whatever as progessive. Its been tried before and not ended well. They see killing unborn babies as freedom. Its been a practice for numerous cults and tribes over thousands of years. The left has perverted language and are far from progressive. They usually regress to violence when they don't get their own way.

Foxy,

Oh god.

:However one way or another - the concept of self-
determination as a process whereby Indigenous communities
take full control of their failures and decide how they
will address the issues facing them remains central to
Indigenous rights activism and is fundamental to the
United Nation's International Declaration on the Rights
of Indigenous Peoples.:

They've got it. They've had it for nearly fifty years. Please understand that. They've got self-determination. Communities have had it or nearly fifty years. They've got it. Decisions made about Aboriginal communities are made by Aboriginal people. Elders probably. Good and bad decisions, they've had those powers for nearly fifty years. Since you were probably still in school.

Joe

Shadow, you should stick to the subject you excel in, STUPIDITY. You come across as some high-browed, toffee-nosed git, who claims expertise in everything, legal, medical, you name it, you know it. What would you know about Rhodesia other than what you can find with a quick Google. Ding Dong what does "refugee" mean to you. Me thinks " " might indicate something.

Big Nana, do you understand the meaning of per capita? Say per 100,000, 7 in 700,000 is 1 per 100,000, 8 in 24,000,000 is 0.03 per 100,000. Therefore an indigenous person is 30 times more likely to die in police custody than a non-indigenous person. Its nothing to do with simply 8 and 7, 8 being greater than 7. Maybe the mathematical genius Professor Shadow Minister can help you out on this one, but as a far right nutter he might not be willing.

Hi Shadow Minister.

My car battery went flat so I rang the NRA to get a guy over to replace my battery. Turns out he was an ex Rhodesian paratrooper who parachuted into ZANU and ZANLA terrorist camps and got them all running for their lives, straight into another parachuter ambush acting as the anvil to their hammer.

His opinion of shooting black terrorists was "I know they were terrorists but they were still human beings."

When I asked him how the Rhodesian people felt about the western world stabbing them in the back, he stopped and looked right at me and said, "Mon, you have no idea how long I have waited to hear those words."

One amusing thing which happened to the paratropers was when the Rhodesian General Walls visited his paratroopers prior to take off on a mission to drop on a terrorist camp. He spied two paratroopers in their sixties already kitted out and bombed up, and sitting with their L1A1 SLR's in the Dakota, ready to go.

'You can't go because you are too old", said General Walls.

'So is the aeroplane" replied the paratroopers. "Anyway, both of us are experienced paratroopers who have dropped operationally before."

"Where was that?", asked General Walls.

"Arnhem", said the first, "Crete" said the second.

LAGO; "My car battery went flat so I rang the NRA" Who did you ring? The National Rifle Association, and some murderous white trash from Africa turned up. Yes, just as Nazi war criminals were able to flee prosecution for their war crimes, and hide out in Australia post WWII, so did some White trash who committed war crimes in Africa do likewise after the fall of British colonialism.
The Rhodesian "refugee" who I spoke of earlier, who went on about shooting blacks, had partook of the liberally supplied free piss beforehand, so he was somewhat inebriated. Being in the company of all whites, he would have felt relaxed in such good surroundings to talk freely of his exploits, he did seem only moderately educated and full of the piss and wind. He had one of those grating white African accents than wants to make you throw up every time you hear it.
BTW; thanks for "like so many other young people, you", at 67, who should I consider are the old people?

Big Nana,

thanks for the pointers through to the statistical data on deaths in custody... http://aic.gov.au/publications/sr/sr21

As you say it demonstrates information very different to that which is claimed by the aboriginal industry and media.

Primarily it shows that while aboriginals are much more likely to end up in custody that non-aboriginals, once they are in custody they are somewhat LESS likely to die than non-aboriginals. This was the case even before the Royal Commission but is much more so after it, demonstrating that aboriginals get better outcomes in prison than non-aboriginals.

As an example, in the last year of the available data, 0.14% of aboriginals in custody died from all causes, while the equivalent number for non-aboriginals was 0.18%.

This is the type of data that isn't mentioned in polite company because it goes against the narrative of racist Australia. But its nonetheless a fact.

As an aside, the data also shows that a higher percentage of men in custody die than women, which of course demonstrates our sexist society.

Joe,

The federal government led by Gough Whitlam adopted
the policy of "self determination"for Indigenous
communities in 1972. This policy was described as -
"Aboriginal communities deciding the pace and nature of
the future development as a significant component within
a diverse Australia". It recognised that Aboriginal people
had a right to be involved in decision making about their
own lives.

While there is no commonly agreed definition of self
determination in Australia and its meaning is contested
there does appear to be general argument that central to
self determination is the right of Indigenous Australians
to make decisions on issues relating to them, and to
manage their own affairs.

However unfortunately there is no such agreement as to HOW
this should be achieved NOR has a framework within which this
can occur been established.

The government has defined self determination as -
"Aboriginal communities deciding the pace and nature of their
future development as significant components within a
diverse Australia".

This in effect LIMITS the exercise of self
determination to what is compatible with the
interests of the Australian state.

Successive Australian governments have rejected the view
that self determination includes the right of Aboriginal
and Torres Strait Islander people to decide things for
themselves.

Self determination has been defined in this country much
more narrowly than it has been in international forums
where as part of the decolonisation process it has been
premised on the right of a people to decide their own
status and future. Not in Australia.

For me this discussion has now run its course.

I wish the young author of this article every
success in her future life's journey and Thank
her for raising these issues for discussion.
It's been interesting.

Take care.
Stay safe.

Foxy,

Can I, for the sake of this website, make an appeal to whatever ethics you retain.

Your most recent post was a complete regurgitation of another website... http://www.workingwithindigenousaustralians.info/content/Culture_7_Self_Determination.html

Now I know that you do this more often than not. But plagiarising this much from one location without the slightest hint that its someone else's work (not even using quotation marks) places OLO and Mr Young in some potential legal jeopardy.

Its the sort of thing that would get you an automatic fail at most respectable learning institutes but which is also a legal grey area. Since Graham clearly monitors comments, he may be liable for such plagiarism in the event of an injured party taking offence.

So by all means grab a sentence or two from elsewhere. But for the sake of OLO and its owners please try to limit it to a sentence or two and if you need to take more, acknowledge the original writers either by note or link. At the very least, the very least, use quotes to show that its someone else's work.

And if all that doesn't tweak your ethics gene, you also can be liable for copyright infringement.

mhaze,

Your concern is commendable. And I Thank You
for it. However, this is the internet.
And once you publish something on the internet
it's fair game.

It's interesting that in the past when I give links,
quote sources, which by the way I usually do - you've
accused me of "making stuff up." You've even recently
lombasted me for the use of the wrong words - (semantics)
even though the meaning was clear for everyone else except
yourself, obviously.

From this last post to Joe, I presumed that it would be
quite clear to both him and everyone else reading the material
that what I was saying was obtained from the web of from
the book "Self-Determination and The Struggle for Equality",
by David Roberts (which I also happened to have accessed, as
did the article which cited the information).

Anyway - you're on a roll - keep up the good work.
And as I said - your concern is commendable.

Paul,

Every time you post you sound more and more like a idiot. It appears when you said "and settled as a "refugee" in Australia" you think that putting "" marks around a word makes it mean whatever is rattling around in your head.

Clearly you were simply spouting bollocks again, and the man emigrated legally on a visa. Evidently you were as pissed as he was as once again you heard only what you wanted to.

As for war crimes, perhaps you actually have evidence? Or as usually you are just lying again?

Hi Foxy,

Yes, I've known Dave since about 1981, we both worked at what became, later that year, the Aboriginal Studies and Teacher Education Centre (ASTEC) at Underdale (SACAE). He worked very closely with my wife too when she took over coordination of all of the Indigenous student support programs at the UNI of SA.

So my wife and I probably both read that paper (1994), perhaps even in draft form; she might have had some input since it was her bread and butter, self-determination and equality.

But surely not ! Surely you're not expecting everybody to remember verbatim everything they've ever read ?

It's a pity that was your last response to my sensible suggestions and explanations. I thought that maybe we might be getting somewhere (god knows why I thought that), and that you may finally take some notice of people's experiences, in addition to The Holy Written Word. Say it isn't so !

Joe

mhaze, you are a master with figures, just as you showed how 100,000 plus deaths from covid-19 in America was such a stunningly positive achievement for the Dangerous Doctor Donald.

"Around 73% of Indigenous people identify as Christians compared to around 63% of non-indigenous Australians." Take that on board when considering the following.

In 2018 the incarceration of Indigenous Australians represented 28% of the prison population, yet they were only around 3% of the total population. Combine these two facts together, and look what you find, if your Christian you are much more likely to be a criminal in jail, than a non Christian.

Did you know, in WWII more non-Jewish/Germans died because of the war than Jews of German origin. You can sprook that one at your next party meeting.

Wow. Obviously when Paul's most fondly held myths get challenged he loses whatever levels of logic he retains.

That last post was bonkers as well as showing a comical level of numeric idiocy.

Paul, the figures I quoted were directly from government reports. That they tell a story that you'd prefer to ignore isn't the same as saying they are wrong.

Here is the simple facts, which hopefully you have a fighting chance of understanding. Aboriginal are approximately 15 times more likely to end up in custody than non-aboriginals. But once they are in prison they are less likely to die than non-aboriginal prisoners.

Now I know that you don't want that to be true, and I know that the media have hid that from you, and I know that you tend to fall for every leftist myth around...but nonetheless this is what the official figure tell us.

This has been known ever since the original Royal Commission.

Foxy wrote: "However, this is the internet.
And once you publish something on the internet
it's fair game."

Legally, let alone ethically, that is not true. You use the word 'publish' and that is the crux of it. Publishing on the web is the same as publishing on paper. The author/publisher owns the copyright.

Lifting their words and passing them off as your own is illegal, let alone unethical. In the great scheme of things, its unlikely that any legal ramifications would flow. But its not unheard off for websites to be sued into extinction over this type of thing.

I've been part of this group for almost two decades and would hate to see anything bad happen to it.

Paul,

I am wondering if you finished school.

Your comment "Combine these two facts together, and look what you find, if your Christian you are much more likely to be a criminal in jail, than a non Christian." firstly comes with a huge error "your Christian" should be you're Christian.

To get to your conclusion you have to assume that Christians are incarcerated at the same rates as non Christians, both in Aboriginal and non Aboriginal populations.

I believe some villiage is missing it's idiot.

Joe,

David Roberts work was published in 1998. And no, I
certainly don't expect people to remember everything
verbatim that they may have read. Regarding the
explanations concerning self- determination and the
problems involved, these were given on pages 259 - 260
in his book. My response to your suggestions and
explanations about which you've complained was taken
from the book and given by a man with whose work you
claim to be familiar.

I also thought that finally I might get through to you
with facts. God also knows why I thought that as well.

I do take a great deal of notice of people's experiences.
Including their consistent past and current behaviour and actions. There's enough
genuine people around so one can sift through the sheep
from the goats.

And not only in the "Holy Written Word,"as you put it.
But in documented evidence, articles, films, oral histories,
so much to choose from these days - Verifiable material
that professional researchers willing to look are able to
find.

People who are willing to be voices - not just echoes.

I see no point in continuing these conversations with you.
I'm sure there's enough "kindred spirits" on this forum
who'll be delighted to talk with you.
I'm not one of them.

Shoddy Minister, you are both correct and incorrect, and you can stop wondering. Yes a HUGE error, nah! I would truthfully say an error of gargantuan proportions to use your when one should use you're. In fact if I had known my meagre little spiel was to be read by the forums most exalted poster, and master of everything, English included, I would have used you are, please, please, forgive me.

BTW SM; good to see the 'Tea Lady' has popped into your 21st floor office location, and left a cuppa so you can enjoy another one hour tea break from "work", and tat tat useless forum posts on your company supplied computer.

BTW; my post was derisive, you cannot tell?

mhaze, you said; "Aboriginal are approximately 15 times more likely to end up in custody than non-aboriginals." Is that because they are inherently bad people, or are there some other factors in play. If we could quadruple the number of Aboriginals in custody, better still lock them all up, and at the same time keep the deaths at say a reasonable 10 or 20 a year, then the Indigenous population would have nothing to whinge about.

Foxy,

Well, it was first a paper in the Kaurna Journal of Higher Education in 1994. I didn't know he had enlarged it into an entire book :). Was it a sort of second edition to Bill Edwards' earlier Introduction to Aboriginal Studies ?

My point about self-determination was that, surely, there is and was at least an element of independence in whatever the hell self-determination means ? i.e. that the people themselves make choices, decisions, without someone leaning over their shoulder ? And that if those decisions turn out to create problems, or not work at all, that they would have the onus of fixing them up, revising their decisions, trying again - all on their own ?

Or are you proposing some for of guided delegation of responsibilities, moving slowly away from paternalist government policies towards genuine independence of policy-making ? Yes, I'd concede that that might have been more effective.

In a sense, once self-determination has been genuinely put in place, then the people themselves make all the decisions and are pretty much on their own - no more training wheels, or parental hand gently in the back. Personally, I would have supported a phased approach, looking back, with government personnel exercising a sort of hands-off surveillance unless an expensive problem was imminent. That might have happened in many places, but probably needed to be repeated.

All water under the bridge now :(

Joe

My great-grand-mother was as fair and caucasian as can be as a young girl but became darkly tanned and weather-beaten as an older woman.

A male member of my family tree at the level of my sons took a photo of my great-grandmother as a mature woman to an aboriginal elder who vouched for her being of aboriginal descent (Torres Strait).

That family member used this to gain an indigenous scholarship at UNSW and now works as a lawyer for aboriginal justice. I'm more aboriginal than he is, which is not at all, and it shows what a scam the whole process is. Then again, maybe I and my sons are proof aborigines can rise above oppression if they dont know where they came from.

Paul asks

"Aboriginal are approximately 15 times more likely to end up in custody than non-aboriginals." Is that because they are inherently bad people, or are there some other factors in play."

Well actually, its because they have a larger portion of that demographic who exhibit anti-social and illegal activity. Not all of them, just a portion.

I'm guessing that this is Paul's way of accepting that Big Nana was right when she pointed out that blacks in custody have a better outcome than the general custodial population.

To Paul1405

I made a typo and should have typed NRMA. You probably figured that out yourself but it gave you some mileage to do a misdirection and you ran with it.

Please note, calling white people "white trash" is a racist term, you racist. Could you imaging me calling black people on OLO "nigggers" or "black trash"? Peter Young would have me permanently off the board in seconds. But as usual, racism towards white peopke is so routine that "smart" people like yourself can not even recognise that you are doing it.

But thank you, it is because of the contradictions and double standards of people like yourself which made me think twice. This is exactly why I stopped being an anti racist and loked at the whole question of race and dysfunction objectively.

Go onto youtube right now and look up how "Zimbabwe", once the "bread basket of Africa" is now a "basket case", and all the blacks are starving to death. This stupidity of black African people always blaming white people for their own inability to govern themselves has reached the hights of idiocy. Now they are demanding that US Police Forces be "defunded".

Acatuallty, it is not a bad idea. Since the most dangerous and crime prone areas of the USA are by far the black and Hispanic areas, then directing all police resources into white and Asian areas would save a lot of police lives. The black and Hispanic areas would degenerate into something resembling an aboriginal encampment after the arrival of a truckload of grog.

Africans in the USA murder their spouses 8 times the rate of non Africans and "no police" would see all of those dumb African/American women protestors very quickly demanding that the police come and save them from their crazy drug addled spouses. By then they will shout that no police in their areas is caused by white racism, and loonies like yourself will support them without even thinking about it., You lefty loonies know that everything that ever goes wrong with black people is always the white guys fault.

LEGO, white people who boast of going out and indiscriminately shooting black people for no other reason than they are black, in that context, they are in my opinion racists white trash. If a black person was to do the same to white people then they are racists black trash. Call me racist, one only has to read your posts to realise what type of person you are. I take it you are someone of European decent from Africa. It comes through that not only were you happy to go to Vietnam to shoot "commies" as you claim, btw, were five year old children considered commies in your army? You denigrate Indigenous Australians at every opportunity, for inst; "aboriginal encampment after the arrival of a truckload of grog." Would it be correct to say, you are a paid up member of some white supremacists mob with a very big bee in your bonnet about ALL indigenous people?

To Paul1405

According "The Bell Curve" 100 years of IQ testing of Americans revealed that Jews have a mean IQ of 125, Asians 106, Whites 103, Hispanics 93, and African Americans 85. I must therefore be a Jewish or Asian supremacist for simply accepting the scientific findings from the American cognitive metricians.

According to one person on an SBS program about race, pure blooded Australian aborigines, Somalis, and Kalahari Bushmen have the lowest IQ's of any other races. Looking at the way pure blooded aboriginal people living in tribes on their own lands behave, I think he may have a point.

Most "aboriginals" in Australia are what the Boers would call "coloured", and they are probably a lot smarter that the pure breds. That is one reason why past governments "stole" half caste aboriginal children from tribal situations. They thought that the half caste children could be saved from poverty because they were smart enough to train and become productive members of society. The other, of course, was to protect them from the very racist pure bred aborigines who despised "yeller feller" children, as you would know from reading Daisy Kadibil's book "The Rabbit Proof Fence."

I am not hostile to pure bred aboriginal people and I know that the Australian population has a duty of care to them. But I am very hostile to those 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/16, and 1/32 caste "aborigines" who never stop blaming white people for the sad fact that aboriginal people on the whole are simply are not very bright. They have been infected by the wrong idea that all races are equal, and so they are convinced that the only reason why aboriginal people do so badly in a modern society must be because the white man keeps them down.

It is hard to like people who are blaming my people for their own genetic condition. Who raise a flag of separatism on our people's government buildings. Who claim they want equality while demanding special privileges. And who snatch away our welfare without even a "thank you", while demanding more and more.

LAGO, you allude to something many on the far right trot out as evidence of the superiority of the white race over black, relative intelligence as demonstrated by IQ tests. What IQ testing don't indicate is a persons ability to gain "useful knowledge", although ones general intelligence level is not a barrier to obtaining "useful knowledge". To give you an example of "useful knowledge", If lost in the Australian desert, who would you choose as a companion? A local aboriginal or Albert Einstein, the answer is obvious, and the reason is the Aboriginal in that environment has "useful knowledge" Einstein doesn't he only has superior relative intelligence, not of much use in that environment. I will agree, in a European environment Indigenous people are at a disadvantage, as a result of not having the ability to obtain "useful knowledge" at the same rate as his European counterpart in that environment. You mentioned Asians, they for unknown reasons, have the ability to adapt to local conditions, ie a European knowledge environment, extremely well. Although they were not able to demonstrate that ability until they obtained mass education, Indigenous may well be the same, possibly not, however there is nothing to indicate they wouldn't achieve that level of "useful knowledge" given education.

Many of the leading Nazi's had very high IQ's, Hermann Goring 138, but we can discuss the value and consequences of that at another time, running out of word space.

My older brother, has a very high IQ, which has allowed him to obtain high skilled/high paid work and all that goes with it as a teacher for 50 years. His "useful knowledge" has always been sadly lacking, a bit of a dope in that regard.

Glad to hear you have an IQ of something like 130, I suspect the majority of forum posters have IQ's above the average, as they wouldn't be on here, doing what they are doing if they didn't.

To Paul1405.

A hundred years of IQ testing has revealed that almost all people with high IQ's do very well in life, while those with low IQ's almost universally do poorly. All that crap about "useful knowledge" is simply a misdirection from those fundamentalist liberal humanitarians who desperately want to believe for ideological reasons that all races are equal. Fundamentalist religious sects want to believe that the earth is only 5,000 years old, and these particular fundamentalists have fabricated the misdirection that dinosaurs were just the animals who did not make it into Noah's Ark.

Mother nature is no egalitarian. Groups of human beings look different because each race and ethnicity evolved separately with features which gave each ethnicity an advantage within wildly different environments. By definition, races, and ethnicities can not be equal, if each has the best human features that make them the fittest within a particular environment.

Group intelligence is largely a factor of length of civilisation. Civilised people need to think at a higher level than people living a hand to mouth existence. It is no surprise then that the smartest ethnicities are those with the longest civilisations. Education can improve group IQ, especially over generations. The most common "mean" IQ for US whites was once arbitrarily set at 100, but whites are now 103.

But no amount of education can turn a basically dumb person into an Einstein. Liberal humanitarians once claimed it could be done but they gave up on that dopey idea.

You are faced with two possible racist explanations as to why certain ethnicities are dysfunctional no matter where they go in the advanced western world. The first is, that they are the victims of white oppression, which is total crap. The second is, that they inhabit the bottom of white society because they are just not real smart.

I submit that anyone who has any intelligence at all and who can see past their cultural conditioning and take an objective view, can only conclude that the second explanation is the most credible. Have you ever met a smart Pacific Islander?

I have to say that I find LEGO's racist assertions repugnant: there are far more persuasive understandings of the persistence of a sub-class that one can find in the works of

*. Edward Banfield("The Unheavenly City"),

*. Oscar Lewis (("The Culture of Poverty", misnamed, I'd prefer 'Marginalisation'),

*. Aaron Wildavsky,

*. and the wonderful John U. Ogbu.

All died far too early, around sixty. But in one way or another, they each put their finger on a feature of all societies which is neglected by crude and rather simple-minded descriptions of societies as composed of upper, middle and lower classes, or capitalist, professional and working classes. Society is more than that, if you look around.

Joe

When on holiday in the UK at the age of around 12 I was fortunate, through relatives I was visiting, to meet an eminent neurosurgeon. During discussions I remember well him telling my father he had been comparing brain size in different races and he had been surprised to find full blooded indigenous Australian’s had a brain volume which was roughly 100cc less than other races he had studied. He also stated this appeared consistent over a significant sample size, so it was not an individual or isolated case.

This is likely to explain many of the indigenous issues which afflict Australian aborigines of pure blood as well as those descended from them whether 1/2, 1/4, 1/8th caste etc.

I don’t recall the doctors name, it was around 1977 when I met him but I vividly remember his comments.
Galen

Oops, I got Edward Banfield (who died at 83) mixed up with Robert Redfield who died at sixty. Both very interesting writers, in different fields, writing at roughly the same time

Galen,

It seems that Neanderthal brains were about 10-20 % larger than 'modern human' brains.

So what does that say about yours ? Don't worry, all Europeans have Neanderthal ancestry.

Joe

You find my racist assertions repugnant, do you, Mr Loudmouth2? A bit selective in your standards, aren't you?

What I find repugnant, is the racism directed at my race by a section of western society which represents the most dysfunctional, welfare dependent, and crime prone of every demographic group which makes up western society. They are a demographic which never stop screaming "racism" and "inequality" but who demand special privileges for their own group. They shout and scream about Black Lives Matter even though it is members of their own group which very disproportionately represents the killers of their own group.

Now they are running around defacing and pulling down the statues of my cultures greatest heroes. THAT is a direct attack upon my culture. The same culture which provides the welfare funds which keep so many of these people economically viable.

If you believe that all races are equal, by what reasoned logic did you come to that conclusion? I suspect it is just an article of faith inculcated into you at an early age like Santy Claus and the Tooth Fairy. But although you grew out of the last two fantasies, your teachers had done such a good a job of putting a mental barrier in your head that it never even occurred to you to question the dogma.

If you think that the authors you submitted could explain away why impoverished sub groups exist without reference to IQ's then why didn't you summarise their work and submit it as an argument? One suspects you never even read their social theories yourself. The fact that class does exist is evidenced by the fact that the reason why the academic/ public service/ artistic class of socialite socialists despise the working class deplorables so much, is because they are desperate to display their social separation from the Great Unwashed.

I never thought I would live to see a civil war in my own society caused by identity politics, but I am not so sure now. Time for you to choose sides.

LEGO, YOU ASK; "Have you (Paul1405) ever met a smart Pacific Islander?" To answer your racists slur. YES, my son-in-law a Cook Islander, educated in NZ, several educated indigenous Fijians, many educated Maori including young nieces and nephews, my Maori wife who is 80% Polynesian, plus some Melanesian, about 5% others. A very smart women, too smart to get on this forum and engage with some of the racists dill brains she perceives as being here.

I have only met a couple of White Africans, one I spoke about, the other a supervisor, who in South Africa had been a supervisor in the rag trade sweatshops. The bloke was out of his depth as a supervisor of people in Australia. He made the mistake, once, of referring to me as "Boy!", as I said he only made that mistake once. His people skills, comprehension skills, etc, left a lot to be desired. A pick your brain type, a few weeks later he resigned, managed out of the department. To be "managed out" you would have to be as intelligent as a monkey. They would rather find you something less challenging.

Galen; "I don’t recall the doctors name, it was around 1977" I'm not calling you a liar. BUT on reading your comment, I did e-mail it to a friend in Sydney and asked the question about your claim, as I couldn't recall any reliable scientific research in that regard, done in Britain before (or after) 1977. It would have been news then had it existed. He is not familiar with your doctors findings, no published paper on the subject, no peer reviews in any respected journal such as 'Lancet'. He disputes your assertion of any "significant sample size", at no time has Britain, including the British Museum or the Natural History Museum in London which held significant samples, nearly 40 sets of aboriginal remains until recently, allowed any detailed research to take place post WWII on those remains. Where was your doctor coming from?

Joe, "I have to say that I find LEGO's racist assertions repugnant" Well said.

To Paul1405

The "stolen generations" lie was a racist slur on white Australians. The BLM implication that the police forces of Australia deliberately kill poor aborigines is a racist slur on white civilisation. Holding up a sign saying "the only good police man is a dead policeman" is "incitement to violence", although "aborigines" can get away with that. But none of these racist slurs triggers you more than if I tell the truth.

I have debated liberal humanitarians for 15 years and pointed out that as a group, Pacific Islanders are notorious for their low intelligence. Asking a liberal if they have ever met a smart pacific Islander usually shuts them right up. They think for a minute and realise that I am right.

You did something different. You claim that you know smart Pacific Islanders. I will take that with a grain of salt although I do appreciate that smart people do exist in every ethnicity, and they usually rise to the top of every society. But it is the bell curve of intelligence I am really talking about here. This bell curve results from IQ testing which consists of a peak in the middle where most people score, and tapering ends where only a few people score. The most significant aspect of the bell curves of different ethnicities is their displacement on the graph when compared together. This proves that different races have different levels of IQ.

Sorry, but that is the science. And "may the truth be told though the heavens may fall." White people on average are not as smart as Asians or Jews. That is the science and so I simply accept it. And that allows me to understand why Jews and Asians are so successful in white, democratic societies. All you need do is accept that the converse is true also.

The initial furore which erupted after the publication of the book "The Bell Curve" was akin to Darwin's "Origin of Species." Governments, theologians, and liberal humanitarians do not like it when scientists destroy their dogmas with a book full of well reasoned facts.

Plantagenet's nightmare.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G87UXIH8Lzo

Joe, something you can help us out on here, being the go to when it comes to Indigenous education. With tertiary education in the main stream, how do Indigenous graduates fair? Do they have a high failure rate? Their results are they top, bottom, generally average. Do they receive honours degrees like other students. See what I'm asking is "are they simply normal".

LEGO, something more important than simple IQ, is ones inherent attitude and exposure to education. Two grandchildren, boy (13), girl (14) Cook Islander/Maori parents, both parents well educated in professional jobs, encourage education in their children. Girl loves school, does very well, during the 'lock down' volunteered to return to school with a "I can't study at home, I want to be at school" an over achiever. Boy tends to do enough to get by, an under achiever, his teachers lament that he is smart, but just wont apply himself well enough. I don't know their IQ's, but I would not be surprised if the boys was not higher than the girls. In my Maori family I find the girls attitude and desire to be educated far greater than the boys. Why is that, is it female IQ is greater than male IQ, I think not. Joe will tell the same about Aboriginal boys and girls.
BTW, both Joe and Foxy will vouch for my Maori connections.
BBTW, I know this old white bloke with a high IQ, but do think he can learn the Maori language from his wife who was a native language teacher in NZ. High IQ, poor aptitude I suspect.

To Paul1405.

Two thirds of the entire Northern Territory education budget goes to educating one third of the children in the NT who are "indigenous." This results in a 90% failure rate in NAPLAN testing by those same aboriginal children.

Suggested "solutions" to this ridiculous situation is "more money, more money, more money" to "close the gap" from the "aboriginal" activists, and "let's ban NAPLAN testing" by the white liberals.

One reason why aboriginal children do so poorly is because of rampant truancy. The government's expensive "solution" to this problem is firstly, to pay aboriginal parents a special subsidy to make their kids go to school. Secondly, to use more taxpayer money to buy a fleet of cars and provide "jobs" for aboriginal adults to drive around aboriginal areas and pick up the kids who just won't go, and make them go to school. Apparently, even providing aboriginal children with free food at school is not enough to tempt them to get educated.

Now, please compare that to Asian children and Asian parents. Asians consider education a gift from God. Asian children in my suburb go to "school" six days a week as opposed to other children, who go five. Within 600 metres of my own home are two privately owned "education centres" for Asian children, where the Asian kids do an extra day a week of schooling, paid for by their parents. I even know a Chinese "Tiger mom" who insisted that her husband move his family into my area because of the existence of a government selective school. She told me herself that Asian parents are horrified with western teaching methods. "What is all this sport, and singing and dancing?" she said, "We want our children to learn and become successful!"

And you are trying to tell me that Asians and Aboriginals have equal intelligence?

And aboriginal dysfunction is entirely the white man's fault for "victimising" the poor aborigines?

Dear Paul,

Talking about intelligence...

The Aboriginals survived in a harsh climate for centuries,
they were more agriculturally intelligent, they managed
the land pretty well. They had a better understanding of
what it took to survive in a land of "droughts and
flooding rains" and bushfires. They had no life-line of
supplies and yet they made do. All of that takes a high
level of intelligence.

The circumstances in which Aboriginals and black
people find themselves in today - has nothing to
do with intelligence as such, but everything to
do with social and economic inequality. However
you can't convince some that white people are
somehow not superior.

There are white people who thought they could fly - they
were proven wrong when they jumped off cliffs,
roofs, and tall buildings and church spires.
None of them made it. (smile).

The origins of our species based on DNA - shows that
all humanity was black but as they moved to colder
climates - the skin lost its vitamin D and became
lighter.

Paul1405, I am only repeating what I heard, it may well be false but I did hear it.
I can’t provide any further evidence other than he appeared in every sense to be a gentleman of intelligence and moral standing, my observation at least.
Galen

Big Nanna - firstly may I say I have respected your comments on Aboriginal issues you have brought to this forum for many years, your voice - and many others - MUST be heard in this current 'WOKE' community.

You state - SAINTS. So many questions.

I respond - and I have so many more questions.

You state - "Firstly the Royal Commission into banking. These rip off schemes don’t just affect aboriginal people they also affect illiterate and semi illiterate whites as well, just that proportionally, more blacks are illiterate. The answer to the whole issue is to ensure aboriginal kids are better educated.

My response - The Banking Royal Commission alerted "viewers" as to the problems Aboriginals have with "identification" for documentary evidence as to opening an account. - Why?

You state - "I’m in a perfect position to understand the deficits in education for these kids. I have 25 aboriginal grandkids and those who were educated in remote communities are way behind their peers. I currently am caring for a 12 year old granddaughter who has come into town to do her secondary education and she is working at the same level as her 9 year old sister, who also lives with me. The problem is not with the teachers, it’s with the parents, in towns as well as communities. Parents aren’t ensuring their kid’s get a goods nights sleep and go to school everyday rested, and with a full belly. Parents don’t encourage their kids to do homework or read a book.

Kids are regularly exposed to violence, drugs and alcohol at home so how can anyone expect them to do well. As always, this does not apply to all aboriginal families, just a section, but those kids are the ones who will grow up dysfunctional and end up in prison."

...cont'd

My response - this is EXACTLY why us as "silent majority of Australians" continually try to expose for over 50 years, however we don't belong to the "woke" community of elites (and/or Government) who just wish for Aboriginals to live on "sit down" money and not offer their children a choice to learn and aspire to who they wish to be.

You state - As regards my comments about the violence that is legal in aboriginal culture, I didn’t say I supported that, I was simply pointing out to Foxy that these are acceptable under traditional law, and interestingly, the elders in Arnhem Land as asking to return to traditional law and have police removed from their communities. I am presuming they wish to be allowed to legally enforce the underaged, promised wife law that is currently illegal but still happens."

My response - seriously. One day I hope you and I can meet. I was questioning Child Abuse within Institution Care way back when --- We then got a Senate Enquiry in SA. 2004 ...which proceeded to current Royal Commission in Child Abuse in NSW. The evidence was horrific.

I keep saying the same thing - no child asked to be born, such child should be able to grow up within the love and safety of their home, in order to nurture and grow their aspirations and dreams.

Such child doesn't have to be an Aboriginal Child or a child of any race or culture - such child deserves the right to grow in a loving, safe family.

Author - Samantha Cooper

Let's now address the truth!

Author - "Because I am an Aboriginal woman, and my people are hurting.

My response - What have the Aboriginal women in Communities been crying out for for decades.

Maybe - just maybe - you might like to refer to previous posts from Big Nanna and others who are trying to make a difference.

If the "silent majority" try to make a difference to Aboriginal education - we're called "Racists".

Would you care to speak to us!

We want all Australians - no matter what colour, or nationality to go to school, in order to aspire and realise their dreams.

Is this racist!

Dear Paul

Since you have not responded to my last post I am starting to assume that the well resoned and self evident logic presented in my last post, knocked you for six?

If so, that is good. That is why I come on these sites. I like deprogramming doe eyed young lefties who have been conditioned like the Komsomolsk or the Hitler Youth to simply accept whatever ideological nonsense the present guardians of what is supposed to be the truth are inculcating into young minds today.

Take Foxy. I like Foxy. I think she is a rooly, rooly nice person. She is also so naive that Elmer Gantry would consider her a prize mark. She wants to believe that all humans are equal in every way, because her world saving ideology depends absolutely on that premise. So, like a fundamentalist religious person which she so uncannily resembles, she is not going to let truth or reason get in the way of her sacred ideology. If it did, then the ideology she so wholeheartedly believes in is not going to save the world. This is anathema to her. Better to believe in easily disproved complete nonsense than admit that your perfect ideology is wanting.

To Foxy. The aboriginal people had no agriculture, they did not even have horticulture.

During the 1950's and 60"s, the "angry young men" of Europe claimed that all men were equal, and that giving Africans their independence by removing white colonial "exploiters" from their colonies in Africa would usher in a new age of prosperity for the Africans. The riches of Africa would benefit the Africans, not the greedy Europeans. So the Europeans left and Africa reverted to barbarism.

How many times do well meaning and completely naive people like your good self need to be shown how wrong your thinking is, before you flash on that fact? If iron age "Zimbabweans" are as smart as the European farmers who turned the country into "the bread basket of Africa", how come millions of "Zimbabweans" are now starving to death?

LEGO " This results in a 90% failure rate in NAPLAN testing by those same aboriginal children."

Provide evidence of your 90% failure claim, or is it something you made up?

From NAPLAN results 2019 year 9, check other results yourself.

Comparison of percentage of students at or above national minimum standard (NMS) Northern Territory;

Numeracy 79.6%, Reading 69.9%

Admittedly there is lower achievement by Northern Territory students than students in other states, but this may be due to other factors, not just your white supremacists view that "its the dumb darkie that's doing it". To quote from ABC News.

"The Northern Territory has seen the biggest improvements in almost all domains as part of NAPLAN testing compared to the rest of Australia, according to preliminary results."

BTW NAPLAN results are a bit more complicated than any simple pass/fail that you put forward.

Given the white Nazi regime in Rhodesia, like that in South Africa had subjugated and oppressed black people to such an extent. It is no wonder those ill-equipped people were unable to manage as well as they should have once gaining independence.

If you starve the horse, he can't pull the plough

Hi Paul,

You asked yesterday:

"With tertiary education in the main stream, how do Indigenous graduates fair? Do they have a high failure rate? Their results are they top, bottom, generally average. Do they receive honours degrees like other students. "

The attrition rate of Indigenous students is usually around 28 % p.a. A higher proportion of Indigenous students than non-Indigenous students may not have completed Year 12, but that has been changing very rapidly in the past generation.

A bit of historical explanation: Until well after the W#ar, the great majority of Indigenous people, even in the 'south', lived and worked in rural areas, where secondary education was pretty sparse. In many areas, of SA at least, there was no secondary provision until after 1960. Even in NSW, i suspect this was still the case, but in larger cities such as Wagga, public secondary education was instituted much earlier, 1917 in Wagga. And when I was there in the fifties, I recall a handful of Aboriginal students in my classes at Wagga High School, I was very keen on a couple of them; well, all of them really, lovely girls.

But given this crucial factor, it meant that Aboriginal parents - well into the 1960s and beyond - had no secondary education or much sense of its significance for their kids. This tended to happen for those families and kids who moved to the cities where it was expected that they would go to secondary school, and perhaps finish Year 12. But it still took a decade or more for people to grasp the value of finishing secondary schooling - that tended to happen only after 2000. University numbers picked up only after about 1990. But really, they were only a bit more than a generation behind the non-Indigenous working-class in this aspiration.

[TBC]

[continued]

I've been out of it since then - I'll be in my eightieth year at the end of 2021. Wow, it creeps up on you ! So I'm relying on anecdotes and the Ed. Dept stats, and to a lesser extent, on the ABS Censuses.

Currently, around 3,000-3,500 Indigenous students graduate each year, increasing at 7 % p..a, 20-odd % of them at post-graduate level. Still two-thirds women.

Do some Indigenous graduates have any difficulties ? Yes, I think so, with little real help from the elites, especially if they have graduated in mainstream areas, which is the vast majority of new graduates. But that's a very long story.

Joe

To Paul1405

Rhodesia surrendered to black majority rule, and the peace deal brokered by Britain was meant to keep the white farmers on their farms so that "Zimbabwe" could still be "the bread basket of Africa." But that crazy demagogue Mugabe broke the deal and after massacring the Ndebele tribe which supported his black political opponent Joshua Nkomo, he encouraged his followers to attack and murder the white famers his nation depended on for food and foreign exchange, and to drive them off their farms. These farms were then shared out with his black cronies who had no idea of agriculture at all. So how you can say that today's starvation in "Zimbabwe" is in any way the white Rhodesians fault is beyond me.

Not real smart.

It is similar to the US and Australia today where race hate advocating "aboriginal" demagogues and "African/ American" demagogues teach the welfare dependent blacks to hate the whites who earn the blacks their welfare money. It also parallels the policies of that wonderful black African intellect, Idid Amin, who murdered, raped, and drove out the Asian middle class which kept Uganda viable.

Black African countries have had independence 70 years and despite the predictions of stupid white liberals who championed "anti colonialism" Africa has gone steadily backwards into a beggar continent propped up by the UN. This mirrors the laughable "self determination" of "aboriginal only" apartheid areas in Australia which under the "leadership" of aboriginal 'big men" have become notorious for their child abuse, spousal abuse, miserable literacy and numeracy, and total anarchy.

Things got so bad that PM John Howard, with Labour support, instigated the "Intervention" which side tracked the "big men with black hats and beards" who appeared to have very sticky fingers. This present "reconciliation" and "recognition" garbage is just another attempt by the "aboriginal" elite to again get their sticky fingers on the billions handed out for aboriginal welfare. And I will bet that you and Foxy support them, because these demagogues know how to present their case as the "aboriginal victims of white oppression standing up for themselves."

Hi Joe,

Thanks for that info. I'm not surprised at the 28% attrition rate, back in my day of tertiary study, when there were no blackfellas in the class, the attrition rate was very high, particularly in the 1st year of base level courses. People dropped out for a variety of reasons, not just that the work was too hard, other reasons. In fact it was not uncommon for early on to see too many students in class, the numbers would soon drop off.

My mother who only had a 6th grade primary education in the bush, never had the opportunity for secondary schooling. Mum was an excellent speller, with beautiful handwriting, loved reading. Maybe she was too dumb to know what was the capital of France, but for understanding of life, she was a genius.

9 MSM news.

Murchison Region Aboriginal Corporation placed under administration after audit reveals staff loans

By Sarah Taillier

Posted 39 minutes agoFri 6 Mar 2015, 3:25pm

An Aboriginal housing corporation in Western Australia has been placed under special administration after an audit revealed senior staff were borrowing large sums of money. The Geraldton-based Murchison Region Aboriginal Corporation was examined by the Registrar of Indigenous Corporations last November, after concerns were raised by the corporation's former auditor, Forefront Audit. The examination revealed that a director, senior staff and some members had outstanding loans of more than $390,000.

Two administrators from a South Australian-based firm, Andrew H West and Associates, were appointed to work with the corporation until late August. In a statement, the registrar said the administrators would work closely with the members of the corporation to put "stronger governance and financial management policies and procedures in place". Administrator Andrew West said last year's examination had identified a number of issues within the organisation that "were not quite in the best of order".

Mr West said he expected general staff at the corporation would continue in their role during the administration period, but said senior staff would stand down. "All the current directors are no longer directors, I take over that role, I also take over the management role," he said. "The whole idea about this special administration is to get that organisation back on track and healthy as a corporation and in around about six months time the corporation is handed back to the members."

Mr West was unable to list how many senior staff were being investigated

Wow - what a revelation folks.

Corruption exists among our Indigenous People.

I wonder who they learned it from?

Foxy,

What, do you think that people are so child-like, so innocent, so passive, so bloody dumb, that they can't think that up for themselves ? That there have never been opportunities for corruption in Indigenous affairs and finances ? You're surely not that naive ? Yes, probably.

Back in the 1980s, someone sent me a thick document, outlining the grants and loans from the Aboriginal Development Corporation (ADC) to recipients. Strangely, many of the loans were to ADC directors, often for quite large amounts, for houses, power-boats, cars, etc., and all of which had gone 'bad'.

Nothing new under the sun :)

Joe

Tongue-in-cheek is hard for some to get.

Foxy,

Not that there is anything much wrong with being naive. I've been naive nearly all my life about most things :)

Joe

Joe, I don't know why you were attacking Foxy like that, obvious as the nose on your face Foxy was being "tongue-in-cheek" to LEGO's look I've got 5 year old dirt on blackfella. Plenty of easy targets on all sides, should we go tit-for tat, I'll put up a whitfella who murdered his young daughter etc.

Good to see ASIO is watching these far right extremists fruit cakes who get on forums with their hate speak.

"The Morrison government is facing fresh calls to tackle the rising threat of right-wing extremism in Australia, after revelations such individuals now comprise a third of all domestic Asio investigations and that radicals are exploiting the Covid-19 pandemic to promote extreme messages." The Guardian Australia.

Could take a look here plenty of promotion of far right free speech on this forum.

To Paul.

Muslims in Australian jails for terrorism related offences (which so far have resulted in the deaths of six Australians in Australia?) 65.

"Far Right wing" (anybody who opposes non white immigration) in jail for terrorism offences. 0

Number of BLM supporters in Australia who broke CCP virus quarantine, thereby endangering the entire population of Australia with a second wave of infections? about 150,000.

Number of "far right" people known to have broken the quarantine? 0

Number of BLM protesters on government benefits? Probably all of them.

Number of "far right" people on government benefits? Probably none of them.

Number of Australians fleeing multiculturalism cursed suburbs like Dandenong and Auburn? Probably the entire white population who have the means to escape.

Number of Australians fleeing electorates noted for voting for One Nation? None. These are the electorates that Australian refugees are fleeing into.

Paul,

Please just stop spouting crap about stuff you clearly have no knowledge about and which you are simply making up.

Firstly, due to cheap chinese imports there haven't been any low cost sweatshops in South Africa since the 1980s, so the story about the Afrikana you met is complete bollocks.

Secondly, at Zimbabwe's independence thanks to the white "Nazis'" paternalism, the black population was the best educated population in Africa bar none and the black leaders were mostly university educated.

Where your story falls into a pile of crap is that the first thing your educated liberators did on gaining power is start an extermination campaign against the ethic minority Ndebele opposition killing at least 30 000 and filling up abandoned mine shafts with bodies.

The next thing these liberators did was to pilfer anything they could get their hands on making Mugabe and his henchmen some of the richest people in the world. The ungrateful population now has no food, no schools and no health system, and many of the "nazi" farmers have been welcomed with open arms by neighbouring black governments keen to feed their populations.

To answer what I can for you LEGO,

"Number of BLM protesters on government benefits? Probably all of them." No not true, the wife and I went as far as South Bank on the train last week to meet up with the niece to protest BLM. Both of us are not on the benefit, so you have lost that one.

"Number of "far right" people on government benefits? Probably none of them." Your fearless leader and Neo-Nazi Ross 'The Skull' May, banned for 43 years for assaulting fans at St George fotty matches. Known May for 50 years, never worked a day in his life, on a benefit. LEGO are you on a benefit? I could throw in a few of the Forums 'Usual Suspects' who admit they are swinging from the govvy welfare teat for old farts.

"Number of Australians fleeing multiculturalism cursed suburbs like Dandenong and Auburn? Probably the entire white population who have the means to escape." I have white friends living in the suburb of Auburn, been in the same house for about 40 years, they are not fleeing, although they own a car, and therefore have the means to do so if they so desire.

"Number of Australians fleeing electorates noted for voting for One Nation? None. These are the electorates that Australian refugees are fleeing into." With all this fleeing going on I would have expected the lot fleeing out would at some stage crash into the lot fleeing in. Not read any such news. The only fleaing I know that's going on is people fleaing their dogs.

No need to thank me for helping you out on this LEGO.

Shoddy Minister, as per usual you try and play the know-it-all, love to use the word bollocks. My South African "buddy" fled the country in around the 1980's so a bit of bollocks for you. As another far right ratbag, you are hardly going to say anything in support of non whites. Provide evidence to support what you claim. 30,000 bodies down abandoned mine shafts. With no evidence its simply your white supremacists propaganda.

LEGO, anything to say about white extremists attacking police and peaceful BLM protesters in London. Unlike SM and his racists bile, I will post a reputable news link.

"But animosity was briefly set aside when a man identified by the crowd as a far-right protester was carried to safety by a Black Lives Matter protester"

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-14/black-lives-matter-far-right-protesters-clash-london-uk-police/12353340

LEGO, I take it you support the actions of these far right thugs?

SM: many of the "nazi" farmers have been welcomed with open arms by neighbouring black governments keen to feed their populations.

Yes they have. my ex next door neighbour went back to try to start a farm. The Zimbabwe Government wanted millions before the could even buy land. Then the process of doing anything was stifled by every Government Department wanting a (Gift) before they would even look at an Application.

The group that he worked for decided that they might do better in Mozambique.

They were welcomed with open arms. No Millions to be allowed to start a Farm. So they did. Then came the catch. As with every African Country everybody in the Government Departments are Corrupt & have to be paid off to be allowed to Buy Seed, Buy a Tractor, Pump water, Plant the seed, Plow the ground.

You can buy a tractor & implements but thing get very slow to almost stop if hands aren't greased. Result out of pocket by hundreds of Thousands, no working farm & it all their fault. They were lucky to get out when they did. They have to pay a local as a manager who has no expertise in anything & does nothing.

Hey Paul1405.

For almost forty years I have warned apathetic people in the west that multiculturalism would lead to the destruction of our social cohesion, and the result will be serious ethnic crime, serious social unrest, terrorism, demands for separatism, and finally, civil war. And that any reading of history will tell you that such a future is as immutable as the Law of Gravity. So don't blame me for seeing my predictions come true.

And all because crooked left wing western politicians wanted to use multiculturalism to "divide and conquer" the electorate and practice Tammany Hall politics to keep themselves in power.

The left wing ANTIFA thugs and dysfunctional minorities who depend upon white people for their welfare cheques have been burning buildings, looting stores, attacking the police, and toppling the statues of western historical figures in the USA and Britain, for nearly a month now. And things are getting worse.

Call off your dogs.

Your side looks to me like it wants to start a civil war, and when it succeeds in getting what it is begging for, I know who's side I will be on.

How long did you think this anarchy could go on before white people stood up and defended their country and their culture, that so many of these protesters immigrated into because they wanted to be a part of it? What you have now is a white backlash, and it is about time

Lego,

I started working in factories in the early sixties. Almost from the beginning, my work-mates tended to be Italian, Greek, Yugoslav, even Turks, Lebanese and French, with some British - but not too many Australian-born - they had moved either up the hierarchy or out into construction or easier jobs OR onto higher education and professional life.

I moved to NZ for a fe years and found the same sort of situation - I had a lot of Samoan, Rarotongan/Cook Island, Maori, Niuean, Tongan mates, bloody hard workers.

Of course the foremen, supervisors, bosses generally were local-born or Brits. But the hard work to build our countries here and in NZ was to a large extent done by migrants and short-term workers. Don't get too far up yourself.

And by chance, you're descended from immigrant ancestors, yourself ?

Joe

Migrants saved this country. They provided labour
when there were labour shortages. They built roads,
cities, infra-structure, worked in sugar cane-fields,
were farmers, worked in factories, hospitals,
opened up specialty shops, established
vineyards, and tried to bring this country out of being
a cultural backwater and into the 20th century. They
haven't stopped contributing since.

Many who came here from bombed out Europe were shocked
at how backward Australia was. It took them decades
to raise the standards both in education, health,
and all the professions.

As my husband tells me - in the 1960s - the greater number
of students at university were made up of Europeans and Asians. And the teaching staff were also predominantly from overseas.

Also culturally many changes brought life to the country
as well as vibrancy. From food, clothing, entertainment,
art, music, theatre, you name it.

To Loudmouth,

For all I know, my ancestors predated the aborigines. If not, they were "settlers", not "immigrants."

Australians were once criticised by the oh-so-bloody-morally pure caste for opposing the immigration of Greeks, Italians, and Yugoslavs into Australia. Yugoslavia itself fell to pieces through multiculturalism, so that didn't work out so well in Yugoslavia, did it? And now the Italians and the Greeks are doing "an Aussie" and complaining about the Muslims and black Africans invading their own countries.

Human beings. my dear Loudmouth, are tribal and territorial. They can be tolerant of other races to a degree, especially if there is no yawning gap in culture which constitutes what each group thinks is right or wrong behaviour. But if that gap is a chasm, then all humans groups are leery of other groups moving onto their territory. And one thing is uppermost, nobody wants to become a minority within their own territory to a different ethnic or racial group with wildly differing cultural values. It is perfectly natural and part of your DNA.

Where immigrant groups do have wildly different concepts as to what is right or wrong behaviour to that of the host population, and a steadily increasing population proportion, either through immigration or birth rate differentials, the result is ALWAYS, serious social strife, terrorism, calls for separatism (into mono cultural entities), or civil war.

That rule is as immutable as the law of gravity.

Thus we now have seen civil wars, rebellions, coups, or at least national separations in Lebanon, Fiji, Cyprus, Georgia, Afghanistan, Biafra, Rhodesia, Afghanistan, Iraq, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Liberia, Kashmir, Punjab, Sudan, Nigeria, Bougainville, East Timor, Yugoslavia, Kurdistan, New Zealand, Bhutan, Angola, Burma, Chechnya, Guadalcanal, Aden, Malaya, Oman, Congo, Northern Ireland, Palestine/Israel, Czechoslovakia, Yemen, Mexico, East Timor, Thailand and recently, Ukraine. Add to this sundry race riots and acts of terrorism in Britain, the US, Europe, and just about every other country on Earth.

Multiculturalism is exactly like Socialism, Loudmouth, how many times must it fail before "intelligent" people like yourself figure out it's nuts?

hear, hear, Joe and Foxy,

How some forget about, the wogs, spicks, dagoes, refos, etc, back in the day. The name calling, the disdain and antagonism shown by the native born towards the new arrivals in the 50's and 60's. Those 'histories revisionist' now want to tell us it was all lardy-dar back then. Many a migrant child at school, or as adults suffered insult and pain from the old hands. Today some are so antagonistic towards multiculturalism, with the chinks and the towel heads etc, and their evil dirty ways. The same like to make out they were all hugs and kisses for migrants back when, they were not, they were just as hateful then, as they are today towards new arrivals.

LEGO; "For almost forty years I have warned apathetic people in the west that multiculturalism would lead to the destruction of our social cohesion, and the result will be serious ethnic crime, serious social unrest, terrorism, demands for separatism, and finally, civil war." And just how have you been doing that? Banging your fist on the rostrum to the gathered throng of three diehards when giving a speech at party meetings.

Paul,

As a far left whinge pedogreen ratbag who believes that only whites commit atrocities here is some evidence to burst your delusion:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gukurahundi

Although there are different estimates, the consensus of the International Association of Genocide Scholars (IAGS) is that more than 20,000 people were killed. The IAGS has classified the massacres as a genocide.[9]"

Considering that there was good employment and relatively few troubles in the 80s your claim that your bumchum "fled" from South Africa is dubious to say the least, as is pretty much everything you say.

Oh, here we go. Paul is once again pointing out how disgustingly racist the white race is, especially those hated white Australians. Got news for you boy, everybody does it and they have done it since forever. Archeologists even found a racist joke aimed at Roman soldiers chisseled into the foundations of a Roman temple in Libya.

International Racial Slurs.

Ancient Rome. Britanculi. (Literally, "wretched little Brits")

Greece. Barbarian. (to Dacians) Name derived from the ancient Greeks claiming that the Dacian language consisted mainly of saying "Bababababa".

African/American racial slurs to white people. honkey, cracker, mayonaise monkey, hillbilly, hick. peckerwood.

Chinese. ABC (American Born Chinese) Towards Japanese. Xiao Riben. Gweilo. (a white person) Laowei (a foreigner)

Hong Kong. Locust. (a mainland Chinese) Wog. (Westernised Oriental Gentleman)

Japan. Gaijin. (a white person) Sino. (a Chinese)

Indian. Chi chi. (literally "dirt") a half caste white/Indian. Madrassi. (Southern Indian) Kharkuwa. (An Assamese.)

Jewish Goyen. (Anyone not Jewish.)

Russian Moskal. (A German) Mazurik (a Pole)

Arab. kuffar (anyone not a Muslim) Nawar. (Gypsy)

Thailand. Farang (a white person)

Racial slurs from just about everybody towards Germans. Fritz, Jerry, Kraut, Squarehead, Nazi, Boche, Hun. But the Germans are "racists" so that's OK.

Greenpeace. Frog. Name given by greenies to the French during atmosheric
nuclear tests at Muroroa Atoll. Used in sentences like "Those bloody Frogs)

French. Rossbiffs. (The English)

Lithuanian. Katsap (a Russian)

Serbian. Srbin Alpski (towards Slovenans , literally "Alpine Serb")

Native American Indian. Apple. (A "white" Indian, red on the outside and white on the inside)

Romanian. Bozgor (Hungarians)

Irish. Fenien. (A Catholic)

Maori. Pakeha. (non Moari)

Bangla Desh Malaun. (an Indian)

Hawaiian. Haole. (a white person.)

US. Wop. (With Out Papers)

Malaysia. Banana. (A westernised Asian, yellow on the outside, white on the inside)

South America. Gringo (a white person). Mulatto ( a person of mixed black/hispanic races)

LEGO,

"Katsap" is a Ukrainian term not Lithuanian for
a Russian.

I won't bother to correct your other derogatory terms
because your point is mute.

There are many terms which reflect the feelings of
superiority of some people of one ethnic group over
people of another ethnic group. And the words you
gave examples of are "outmoded" words that are no
longer acceptable to most civilised people.

To Foxy.

If "katsap" is wrong, take it up with Wikipedia.

I had to laugh when you wrote about people who have "feelings of superiority of one ethnic group over another", because that sure rang a bell with me.

As I have stated previously, I went from being a dumb anti aparteid demonstrator at Springbok footy matches in Sydney screaming "don't scrum with a racist bum!", to an intelligent person who realises that racism is just another form of intergroup hostility, and nobody is ever going to stop that. Especially since those who screamed the loudest about "racism" were self evidently very racist towards white people.

My people.

Another thing I noticed (which you never did) was that those in the diplomaed caste who were screaming the loudest about "equality" were the biggest social snobs around who really knew how to look down their noses at working class inferiors like me. You even sniffed that "civilised" people do not call other ethnicities names. You and your caste really do think that you are superior to the "deplorables", don't you? .

Next came Muroroa. You remember when the Frogs were doing atmospheric testing of nuclear weapons and they put a limpet mine on that Greenpeace schooner, which killed a Greenie? Suddenly, every trendy lefty media hack who supposedly despised racism was calling the Frogs every filthy name they could come up with. And stereotyping the French people with whatever negative stereotype they could imagine. Obviously, there are ethnic groups that you trendies despise, like the French, the Americans, the Israelis, and white people in general. Racism does not apply to your brahmin caste, because your peers know when it is socially acceptble to be racist.

Voltaire once wrote how his right wing opponents were all stupid, strutting, moralising, finger pointing, self righteous, sanctimonious, moral puritans. It is funny how you lefties have now morphed with time into the very same people you once fought against when you were young.

Racism is a bit like sex, Foxy. It may be naughty, but everybody does it. The racist joke is a cultural universal.

LEGO,

Perhaps you need glasses.

"Katsap" is on the web and given in many sites
as being a UKRAINIAN ethnic slur against Russians.
I speak Lithuanian fluently. It is not a Lithuanian
slur. You can check with Wiktionary.

Now regarding the words we use?

Words reflect our society.

Our language reflects our view of the world and so it
is always changing. New words are being added all the time as discoveries are made in medicine, science, and technology.
We can all think of many examples of the this.

Words for things no longer in use are dropped from our
everday language. If you read or have ever studied English
Literature just as an example you'll be able to see how
our language has changed. Compare the language of the
extracts from old books and reports with the way we
express ourselves today.

Most people no longer use terms like "dago" or "wog"
or "boong" These are considered "outmoded"words and are
no longer acceptable to MOST people.

LEGO,

You said - "Racism is a bit like sex. It may be naughty
but everybody does it?"

People have sex in different ways. One size does not fit all,
so to speak. Some don't have sex at all. So not everybody
does it in the same way. And not everybody thinks it's
"naughty". Some actually think its normal and pleasurable.
And it's usually done between consenting adults so that
nobody is hurt. No harm is done.

Racism on the other hand hurts people and does harm.
So racism is not at all like sex.

You also said that racist jokes are a cultural universal.

Not to most people. We're learning about what these jokes
can do to people on the receiving end. People like Adam
Goodes for example. I would hate to be responsible for
someone suffering and having mental issues because of
my unthinking behaviour.

I'm sure that you're a decent person and would agree.
It's one thing to be a "key board warrior"on an
anonymous discussion forum. But in your own community
you would behave differently when face-to-face with
people. At least I hope you would behave differently.

Hi Foxy, like me did you have a revelation when LEGO posted his list of racists barbs in other languages! I'll be damned, glad the lad spent hours of cutting and pasting his list. Wow!

These hard right fanatics always want to tell you about their "Damascus moment"...I was off protesting, "I went from being a dumb anti aparteid (you would think he could get the spelling right) demonstrator.... to an intelligent person who realises that racism is just another form of intergroup hostility, and nobody is ever going to stop that.", so I joined the racists, with my 40 year message. Not sure if the "Damascus moment" took place before or after he was off happily killing commies in Vietnam. Did you know there are no swear words in Maori, they don't use the letter "F", but they sure know all the English ones.

LEGO, a bit of news, blackfellas can lop the heads off whitefellas, just as easily as the other way around. If you want to lookup some real nasty folks, check out 'Black Power' and the 'Mongrel Mob' in Aotearoa, no gangs are worse.

Paul,

Don't worry about all those titoi !

Joe

Dear Paul,

I've experienced racism. All migrants have.
Physically however, I was able to "blend in".
But heaven help you if you looked and dressed
differently and didn't blend in. It becomes
more difficult.

Today, I like to think that
as there are more of us folk whose ancestries
are mixed - that things are beginning to
change. Attitudes are changing, especially
amongst younger people.

I remember asking one of my sons about Benjamin
a Chinese friend." "Does Ben ever tell you about
China?" The reply came back with -
"Why should he?" I foolishly said - "'cause he's
Chinese". To which my son said - "No he's an Aussie
like me. He's my friend!"

Out of the mouths of children.

Foxy,

One thing iI really like about "Who Do You Think You Are ?" is, so often, how mixed people find themselves to be. They think they're plain English and they find French or Bulgarian or Indian ancestors, certainly Irish and Welsh and Cornish, perhaps Scandinavian, as I did. Perhaps a bit of West Indian (i.e. African) thrown in for enrichment.

We're pretty much all mixed, and we have been for hundreds of years, maybe forever, since our Neanderthal ancestors met those strange-looking, wimpy people from Africa. I hope the troglodytes on OLO can get used to it.

[Paul, sorry, that's who I meant by 'titoi' :) ]

Joe

Thanks Joe, I wouldn't want anyone to be blinded because they are a titoi. Not a word you will find in the dictionary.

BTW, something you may be able to answer. With Maori children, girls seem far more interested in education than boys. I believe that is also the case with aboriginal children. I would say the same applies to Islander children, and I suspect with indigenous children the world over. Not so pronounced with European Australians, but there is some bias there with girls over boys. A well educated niece in NZ once said to me "Us Maori girls, leave school and go to collage, the boys leave school and go to jail." Not all, but some, she didn't really know why. As the good professor would say; "Why is it so?"

Hi Paul,

Yes, that might be part of the reason for the imbalance in numbers. More likely maybe, is the possibility that Indigenous kids here tend not to take the STEM-oriented paths as they come through secondary school, although so many of the university courses - especially the male-stereotyped ones - tend to require maths and/or sciences. And on the other hand, the courses which don't seem to require so much maths and sciences are female-stereotyped.

So Indigenous boys coming through secondary school perceive that they have far fewer options at university, while the girls don't feel such restrictions. So - and I'm sure it's similar in NZ for Maori and Polynesian girls - Indigenous female participation at universities here is actually a bit higher, for the relative population sizes, than the participation of NON-Indigenous male participation.

And of course, these days, female university participation generally is much higher than male participation, something like 58 % : 42 %. On the other hand, trades-type qualifications are greatly skewed in favour of males.

So Indigenous women's participation at universities is a good news story both here and in New Zealand !

I can't wait to hear about it from Indigenous education experts !

Cheers,

Joe

Hi Again Joe,

Speaking with the kids over the ditch, from a young age the boys take a much more negative attitude to school than the girls. Up north, the closest thing they have to aboriginal isolated communities, 3 hours from Auckland. The problem is opportunity, leave school with a low grade education, little to no work available, hang around all day on the benefit, boring. The nephew, was like that, ended up in jail, car stealing. "Did you steal cars for parts to sell?" "Nah uncle, we had cars, just for something to do uncle." How bloody stupid, his 3 sisters all do well for themselves. Go down to Auckland I say, "Nah, no whanau to stay with down there uncle, plenty up here." I like the bloke, he is always respectful to us, not that any of the kids would dare backchat aunty when she speaks they know they have to listen. Recently a niece told Aunty to piss off on Facebook, did she cop it from all sides, she wont do that again, much apology from niece. Her parents threatened to kick her out of home if she didn't change her attitude and show respect.

Hi Joe,

You're right we're all a mixed bunch.

I also enjoy watching - "Who Do You Think
You are". Amazing the mixture of ancestries
that people find.

My own families is quite diverse. From Russian,
Lithuanian, Scottish, English, German, Swedish,
Lebanese, and recently Vietnamese.

Who knows what the future holds for our grand-kids.
And what sort of mixes they will end up with.

Hi Paul,

I was ahead of my time in that I went on to tertiary
education and a career. However, along the way I met
my supportive husband who helped me with raising
our family so that I could continue with what I
wanted to do. I was lucky. And of course still am.
We shared our roles equally. Always have.

Support and encouragement made all the difference.

Foxy,

I think your husband is the lucky one :)

Best wishes,

Joe

So, you didn't like my metaphor, Foxy?

OK, how about the Seven Deadly Sins? Previous generations of your moral puritan caste of sanctimonious finger waggers claimed that all you needed to do to create a perfect world was to eradicate Pride, Greed, Lust, Gluttony, Envy, Anger, and Sloth. They failed, because everybody has these qualities, to one degree or another. It is not the "vice" itself it is the DEGREE to which people exhibit these very human characterises that defines their character. You are trying to add Racism to the list. Religious people would probably insist on Heresy and Blasphemy. Totalitarians would insist on Sedition.

Of course racist jokes are funny. So are political jokes, jokes about the sexes, religious jokes, and dirty jokes. Very religious Christian people would want to ban "The Life of Brian" because it was very offensive to their religion. But I am sure you would not want that to happen because you think it OK to insult religions. Totalitarian regimes ban jokes about themselves, but they can never stop people from making jokes about their incompetence and ineptitude. . Comediennes today talk of "the death of humour" because people like you get offended over anything. No wonder you are called "the snowflake generation." Your snowflake generation is even trying to ban "Gone with The Wind" and "Faulty Towers".

If you hate racism so much then write a criticism of a new and extremely racist article recently posted on OLO, entitled "The Mealy Mouthed Nature of Australian Life", by Malcolm King. King calls "baby boomers" (a euphemism for "whites") "spineless", "obsequious toadies", "self interested", "soggy beer nuts", and "mealy mouthed".

Now if King had described aborigines or Chinese with these same insulting terms, you would be hopping around in red faced apoplexy screaming "Racist!" "Racist!" "Racist!" Then you would report him to the Commissars of the HREOC Soviet. But you won't do any of these things because racism against white people is so pervasive, it is the new norm, and it is totally acceptable to your snowflake generation.

Who cares if white people get offended?

To Paul1405

Another very poor post from you. Of course I explained why I stopped being an anti racist and became a racist, because I was hoping to make you understand why your opponent thinks the way he does. But try as I might, I can't get a similar response from you.

If you think that racism is wrong, then you must think that all races are equal. That means you must think that they all have the same mental abilities, physical abilities, and personalities. I have asked you to explain to me by what objective reasoning you came the conclusion that all races were equal in every way, but you dodged it. A crucial question and you dodged it. That doesn't seem like the actions of a person who is confident that he can defend his opinions.

So I am putting it to you again. This time I expect an answer. If not, you are simply confirming to me that your opinion is not the result of objective reasoning, it is simply an article of unquestioning faith that was inculcated into you by your teachers, peers, and culture. They have succeeded in creating a mental border in your mind that you are too frightened to step over. If you had the courage to do that, you might discover something that you fear to know.

Ignorance is bliss, especially if you can well appreciate the consequences of being a heretic.

LEGO,

I've just read an interesting article on the web from
"The Conversation". on the topic of racist jokes.
It makes some excellent points.

We're told that: -

Once upon a time, making racist jokes wasn't
something that caused controversy. It was an
everyday happening you could hear in every pub
and comedy club, every night of the week.

Not only racist jokes, but jokes about the disabled,
women, the mentally handicapped, homosexuals, and so
on. That was the norm. Nothing was off-limits.
Speaking and imitating funny accents was entertaining.
We all can remember those times, I'm sure.

However changes started to develop after a while, and -

Slowly new comedians began to appear. People like -
Stephen Fry, Hugh Laurie, Jennifer Saunders, Dawn French,
Ben Elton, to name just a few.

These new comedians pointed out that it
wasn't funny to demean, belittle, humiliate, or
dehumanize people simply for being who they were.

These comedians to many of us - were a breath of fresh air.
A collective satirical voice that rose to roar
right back at the dinosaurs.

The article also pointed out that -

We now have people arguing about the whole "free speech
under threat by political correctness" mantra.

The point being made should be that freedom is not the
only value worth upholding. There are others, such as
equal moral worth and dignity of every human being,
regardless of their race, gender, sexuality, religious
beliefs and so on. which is why humanisation is
significant here.

But some people who are part of the anti-PC brigade don't
even want to think about this.

Some think its perfectly acceptable to be racist again as
long as its delivered in a funny way. After all every body
does it. Just ask Eddie McGuire or Sam Newman or Kyle
Sandilands.

Better still why not talk to Adam Goodes?
You might get a clearer picture.

Foxy, in my youth it was the right side of politics which controlled the media, and they tried to impose their moral code on everybody else. Comediennes were usually from the left side of politics, and they had a field day pointing out the absurdities, pretentiousness, puritanism, and hypocrisies of the right. Even in the worst days of right wing political censorship, political cartoonists could get away with sticking it to overbearing authority, because even the right wingers appreciated humour. Most of them, anyway. Adolph Hitler informed the Gestapo that when Britain was invaded, he wanted one particular British cartoonist arrested for his depictions of der fuehrer.

Today it is the left who are the new moral puritans. They are now the new Establishment with a stranglehold on culture, and it is with their obsession with identity politics that is destroying humour. Comediennes are a part of the trendy lefty caste and you are losing your own supporters. I know there is woke comedy around, but all I have ever seen of "comedy" on the ABC was so excruciatingly bad that it was embarrassing to watch.

Endlessly bagging Trump supporters and anyone on the right, then and adopting an angry, sanctimonious attitude with a self righteously indignant posture when delivering a political message in every "comedy" skit, is not funny. Last I heard, the ABC had given up presenting any new woke "comedy" acts because their audience ratings were so abysmally low.

Many famous and prominent comediennes like Rowan Atkinson, John Cleese, and Michael Palin have made public announcements that PC culture is killing comedy. Gene Wilder stated that today, PC media companies would not allow his famous and iconic comedy "Blazing Saddles" to be produced.

Lastly.

Q. Why did the Lebanese Olympic boxing team go back home to Lebanon before the Olympic games started?

A. They found out it was one on one.

Q. Why do women always close their eyes when they are having sex?

A. They hate watching a man enjoying himself.

LEGO,

OK, I'll play.

Q: Why does the sun never set on the British Empire?

A: Because God did not trust the British in the dark.

And it did not even offend me, Foxy.

Here's a couple.

A man had sex with three women in a day, a prostitute, a nymphomaniac, and his wife. After his orgasm, the prostitute (all business) said "That's it then!"

The nymphomaniac said. "That's it then?"

His wife said. "Beige. I think you should paint the ceiling beige."

Two Kiwi men were having sex with two sheep when one of them started complaining. The second Kiwi man said. "What are you complaining about? I gave you the pretty one."

LEGO,

Here's a few more you might like:

1) Mahatma Gandhi often walked barefoot which produced an
impressive set of callouses on his feet. He also ate
very little making him rather frail and with his odd
diet he often suffered from bad breath.

This made him -
a super calloused fragile mystic hexed with halitosis.

2) A world wide survey was conducted by the United Nations.

The only question asked was:

"Would you please give your honest opinion about solutions
to the food shortage in the rest of the world?"

The survey was a huge failure.

a) In Africa they didn't know what "food" meant.
b) In Eastern Europe they didn't know what "honest" meant.
c) In Western Europe they didn't know what "shortage"meant.
d) In China they didn't know what "opinion" meant.
e) In the Middle East they didn't know what "solution"meant.
f) In South America they didn't know what "please"meant.
g) And in the USA they didn't know what "the rest of the world"
meant.

LEGO, no good making demands that I answer you questions, you are not the only racists who asks me questions on the forum, and answering is only voluntary at the best of times. Don't think I am posting a reply to you because you banged your shoe on the rostrum Khrushchev style.

"If you (Paul1405) think that racism is wrong, then you must think that all races are equal. That means you must think that they all have the same mental abilities, physical abilities, and personalities."

I do not equate equality to race, in my view all people are equal in value, white/black and in between, therefore all races are of equal value. Just as Nazi science "proved" Japanese were of the Aryan race, your proof that European devised IQ testing establishes a superior/inferior numerical index of humanity is just as flawed. All of us are of different mental and physical abilities, we all have different personalities that in itself does not reflect our worth as human beings. and therefore any notion of inequality. Just as Alfred Binet's European slanted IQ test is being used by white supremacists to prove the superiority of white over black, another equally biased test could be devised to show the direct opposite, all of such is worthless.

Just out of interest LEGO, where do you stand on Aryan race theory.

To Paul1401

If you don't equate equality to race, then you are a racist. For God's sake don't tell Foxy. I think you are making your logic up on the run because it looks a little confused. Is it because nobody has ever asked you these questions before, so you have no prepared answers? And the slogans your peers have made you memorise over the years, which you thought explained everything, you now find wanting.?

Now you are saying "all people are equal in value", which is nuts. A heart surgeon obviously has a lot more value to society than a meth head. I would love to know by what convoluted logic you came up with that doozy? Nazi Germany used contorted logic to rationalise around their own ideology to prove how the Japanese were "Aryans". You seem to be doing the same thing.

White people created the modern world because we invented everything in the world for the last 400 years, and intelligence testing was just another scientific advance that we invented. Cognitive metricians are scientists just like psychologists. All they seek is the truth, and for 100 years businesses, universities and the military, have all been interested in this scientific discipline, and they apply it's principles when assessing recruits. If it was a pathological "science", it would have been exposed as a fraud long ago.

"Aryan Race Theory" was the kooky ideology invented by the National Socialists of Germany to justify German expansion into the lands of the "untermenschen". It put blond haired, blue eyed people as "supermen", and dark haired, dark eyed people as evolutionary delayed inferiors.

Black people generally are superior runners and usually dominate those sporting disciples involving running. But blacks don't even bother entering Olympic level swimming events. Blacks also have superior IV skin protection but generally, the lowest IQ's White people are superior swimmers and adapted to live in colder climates because their skin absorbs vitamin D from the sun. Asians generally are not so athletic as whites or blacks, but are a lot smarter than blacks, and a little smarter than whites.

To Foxy.

Three shipwrecked sailors were sitting on a cold, windswept rock in the North Sea. They were an Englishman, a Scotsman, and an Irishman.

The Englishman found a lantern, gave it a rub, and out popped a genie.

The Genie said "Thank you masters. I have been in that lamp for 1000 years. I was going to give you three wishes, but since there are three of you, I will give one each."

The Englishman said "I wish I was back home in London, in my easy chair, in front of the fire." The genie pointed to him and "poof", he disappeared.

The Scotsman said, "I wish I was back in Glasgow, in my easy chair, in front of the fire. The genie pointed to him and "poof", he was gone too.

The Irishman said "It is very cold and lonely here, I wish that my two friends were back."

Here is one you will really hate, Foxy.

Three blondes were walking along a beach and one of them spotted a lantern sticking out of the sand. She picked it up, gave it a rub, and out popped a genie.

The Genie said "Thank you masters. I have been in that lamp for 1000 years. I was going to give you three wishes, but since there are three of you, I will give one each."

The first blond said "I want to be smart". So the genie pointed at her and "poof", she turned into a redhead.

The second blonde said "I want to be smarter than the redhead." So the genie pointed at her and "poof". she turned into a brunette.

The last blonde said. "I want to be smarter than those two." So the genie pointed to her and "poof" she turned into a bloke.

LEGO,

OK. I can do this as well.

Here goes.

Three blokes wanted to join the FBI.

They turned up for their test.

The first one was given a gun and told to go into a room
where his wife was waiting and shoot her.

The bloke couldn't do it - "She's my wife". He explained.
So he was dismissed.

The second bloke was also given a gun and he too was told
to go into the room where his wife was waiting and he also
was instructed to shoot her. He couldn't do it either and
was also dismissed.

Finally the third bloke was given a gun and told to go into
a room where his wife was waiting and told to shoot her.
This bloke took the gun and went into the room where his
wife was waiting. Some time passed. Finally the bloke came
out walked up to the FBI agents and placed the gun he'd been
given onto the desk in front of them.

He went on to explain:

"The gun you guys gave me wasn't loaded." They smiled at him.

Then he added:

"So I strangled the bitch!"

LEGO,

We've certainly gone overboard with the jokes.

However, back to the topic.

Countries all over the world are joining in global
protests in response to the death of Afro-American
George Floyd. Apparently parallels of racism are
being drawn of systemic oppression globally.

The movement has brought people on the streets in
Rio de Janeiro, Buenos Aires, Abuja, Nairobi,
Barcelona, Copenhagen, Paris, London, Sydney,
Melbourne and son on.

Demonstrators oppose the racial legacy the death of
Floyd embodies and the brutal, militarized police
response to the protests. Although they honour the
commonality of black struggles everywhere and more
broadly the fight for human rights, the words "I can't
breathe" are chillingly familiar.

An article in "The Guardian" points out that

"In australia they evoke the death of David Dungay, an
Indigenous man who uttered those words 12 times as he was
restrained by prison guards."

"In the UK they were cried out by Jimmy Mubenga as security
guards pinned the deportee to his plane seat."

"To say that Black Lives Matter is not only to demand that
they're not stolen, but to insist that they're truly
valued."

"However - the breadth of the protests not only is a
testament to what has gone wrong, but also a promise
that change is possible."

"The protests although black-led are multi-racial,
showing the growing breadth of support."

Progress can and must be made. Otherwise in the future
more than just statues and memorials may be destroyed.
We will ignore them at our own peril.

LEGO, the only one making things up is you, as you sprook convoluted clap-trap, thanks to your reading of Nazi and other white supremacists propaganda on race. You should feel superior, since you have the perverted patter down cold. Of course one can easily say; "If you don't equate equality to race, then you are a racist" got proof, as I said; "all races are of equal value" unlike you who places higher value on the white race, over black, because whites invented electric toasters or some such thing. For all this great white inventiveness, what have YOU invented in your time, or are you a failure. Inventions are the built on's of past achievement, anything "invented" in the arbitrary past 400 year, required previous achievements in science to be possible. No wheel, no rocket ship to the Moon.

"But blacks don't even bother entering Olympic level swimming events". Australia was full of Olympic size swimming pools and great swimming weather, no darkies allowed in the pool when England's white people had 5 Olympic pools and lousy swimming weather. No access to swimming pools could explain a lot of things, including results. Black golfers, few and far between. Tiger Woods, born 20 years earlier, regardless of unseen ability, he would have been carrying the clubs, not hitting the ball, and certainly would not have been allowed in the club house. Those whites with no such golfing ability were in the club house sipping gin and tonics telling each other what great golfers they were.

To Paul1402

Paul, anti racists have always spruiked the slogan that all races are equal. If you don't now believe that all races are equal, then you are a racist. So, if you really believe that now, then for God's sake don't spread your opinions around your university peer group unless you want to be charged with conduct unbecoming an ideological zealot.

What you are stating now is that all races are of equal value? Never heard that one before. But it seems to indicate to me that you have been doing some thinking lately and even you realise that the concept that all races are equal is self evidently unsupportable. Some races do things better than others. You don't have to be a Mensa from the local Audubon society to figure that out.

But hang on a minute, now in your second paragraph you seem to be going back to "proving" all races are equal in physical abilities?

In the USA and in other western countries, Africans and pacific Islanders are dominating football events and there was even a movie about the African dominated sport of basketball where the title of the movie was "White Men Can't Jump." Sounds like racism to me, even though I agree it is probably true. That's the funny thing about racism, the merest suggestion of white racism is howled down with fury. But say something negatively racist about whites and WHOOSH, it goes right over the Social Justice Warriors head.

Black African people obviously have better physical characterises when it comes to sports involving running. If they displayed any physical abilities at all in swimming, the sports promoters would be all over them to sign them up. But black sportsmen do not even try. There are no Tiger Woods in swimming, not because there is no opportunity for blacks to swim, it is because physically, they know they are at a distinct physical disability when compared to white people. Different bone densities and different flotation abilities.

Make up your mind. Either all races are equal or they are not.

LEGO,

How on earth can anyone judge an entire race?

Surely we need to allow for individual differences?

Unless of course we're talking about how people
are to be treated - about justice, and their human rights?

That's a different story.

Ummmm, no Foxy.

'All over the western world" the stupidity of importing a race of human beings who for the most part do not have the intellect to compete and prosper in a competitive free market white western society, is becoming self evident. These people with low IQ's have been cultivated by leftist agitators and leftist politicians, who have become their champions, and who have explained away their failures as being the result of white victimisation.

Black people being forced to either recognise their own race's lack of intellect and genetic predisposition to violence, or blaming white people for their own condition? That is a no brainer. So today we see the crowds of largely imported immigrants along with their virtue signalling white graduate caste burning buildings, looting stores, beating up and killing people, and taking over entire districts. You might see it as some sport of glorious revolution, but I see it as the dumbest and most violent section of western society reverting to type. They are attacking the very people who more or less welcomed them, and who pay their welfare cheques.

If white western society is so horrible to blacks, Foxy, why do millions of blacks try to barge into western societies every year?

According to FBI crime statistics, a white woman has 60 times more chance of being raped by a black man, than a black woman has of being raped by a white man. A white man is 200 times more likely to be physically attacked by a black man, than a black man has of being attacked by a white. Given those two statistics, Foxy, which race would you judge to be the more racist?

It is almost laughable that black people are complaining about white violence to them, given that the overwhelming number of black deaths in western society is caused by other blacks. They kill each other with gay abandon. No wonder the police treat them brutally. They are sick and tired of arresting the same violent dummies, over and over again, who like this George Floyd, never stop committing crimes.

LEGO,

We lived and worked in the United States for close
to ten years. I worked in a private University
which was surrounded by a black ghetto area.
I am familiar with the problems of black people
in the United States. Their problems have nothing
to do with their IQs - but with their social and
economic conditions, and other factors.

I've never been to Africa, so I can't speak on their
behalf. But the problems of our Indigenous people
also has nothing to do with their IQs.

I think its a question of environment, opportunity,
education, employment, being given a chance in life to
do well. That matters.

Take a white child and put them in the same environment
as a black child. Give them little chance to progress
put them down all the time and see how well they fare.
Give them no education, no training, no employment,
and see what the results will be.

I don't for one minute buy into your "white is superior"
mantra. My doctor is Chinese, my professor at university
was black, my podiatrist is from Iran, my heart specialist
is from India, and the list goes on.

You must live in some sort of bubble. Perhaps it would do
you some good to come out into the real world.

Foxy.

Social and economic conditions are related to IQ. I was once a Housing Commission tenant who's very smart unmarried mother was very poor because of circumstances. She went from being a very low paid theatre usherette, a waitress, a sandwich shop girl, a sheep station cook, a seamstress, to an executive in Sydney's Channel Ten (Wardrobe Mistress). Like most intelligent people in the disadvantaged class who are upwardly mobile, she was smart and she worked hard.

I became an apprentice electrician, and there were young men my own age in the block of 84 flats we lived in. Some were criminal no hopers, and some became apprentice, painters, fitters and turners, and plumbers. When Whitlam came into power and made the dole so easy to obtain, all of these young men (who were my friends) chucked their apprenticeships in and went surfing every day. They laughed at me for going to work. Not real smart. I don't know where my friends are now, but you can bet they are still living in "the flats" and are the intergeneration poor.

One pretty blonde girl saw me as a meal ticket but she wanted me to go with her to Nimbin and get on a commune and live on the dole. She took off one day for Nimbin and came back 15 months later with a baby.

My cousin is a woman 'Houso" and she is completely irresponsible with money. She always borrows money she can not pay back. Her parents were always bailing her out of financial difficulties, and when they died it was my mother, and now she has died, it is me who has to bail her out. Her daughter has had four kids to her husband, but they divorced when he ran off with the girl next door who was half his age. She then had two more kids to her husband's son from one of his previous liaisons. This neice got pregnant deliberately to get on the unmarried mother's pension.

And you are trying to tell me that poverty has nothing to do with brains?

Man fathers 21 children by 11 different women... and he's only 29

A man aged 29 has fathered 21 children with 11 different women, it emerged yesterday.

Desmond Hatchett's brood came to light after authorities in Tennessee in the U.S. took him to court for non-payment of child support. He has apparently set a U.S. record but said: 'It just happened.' He's the daddy: Desmond Hatchett speaks to reporters about his prolific brood He added that he would not have any more children. 'I'm done. I'll say I'm done,' he said. Hatchett, who earns a minimal wage, told TV reporters he knows the names and ages of all his offspring. Their ages range from newborn to 11 years old. Authorities in Knoxville said they plan to take half of his monthly salary to pay for the youngsters but officials said that would work out to just over £1 a week for each. His lawyer Keith Pope said: 'The children can't all be supported by Desmond, so the state of Tennessee has had to step in.'

Many Knoxville residents called for him to be castrated.

He even boasted of fathering four children by different women in the same year. Hatchett's name appeared on court documents 11 times representing 15 of his 21 children. U.S. authorities are now braced for more women coming forward to claim Hatchett is the father of their children after he appeared on local TV. He said the women he was involved with all knew he had other children. One mother, who has two children with Hatchett, said she should get £44 a month but rarely receives any child support. 'It's frustrating, but usually, when I ask he gives it to me,' she said.
Authorities in Knoxville ordered Hatchett to court to explain how he intends to pay child support. He arrived for the hearing with just over $600

The problem for the west, Foxy, is dumb people are breeding a lot faster than smart people. Smart women are hardly breeding at all.
Immigration of dysfunctional dumb minorities just makes things worse. Western social security systems are unsustainable.

LEGO,

There's so many factors that come into play when
attempting to judge someone's intelligence.
I don't believe that we can judge by
the "cultural specificity" of intelligence
IQ tests - which are biased towards the environment
in which they were developed, namely white Western
society.

The application of the same test among different
communities would fail to recognise the different
cultural values that shape what each community
values as intelligent behaviour.

Going even further, given that IQ test history is one
of being used to further questionable and sometimes
racially motivated beliefs about what different groups
of people are capable of - some researchers say such
tests cannot objectively and equally measure an
individual's intelligence at all.

Many researchers say that intelligence is a concept
specific to a particular culture. That it appears
differently depending on the context - in the same way
that many cultural differences would.

What might be considered intelligent in one environment
might not in others. For example, knowledge about medicinal
herbs, hunting, survival in the bush, bush tucker, is seen
as a form of intelligence in certain communities within
Africa and Australia but does not correlate with high
performance on traditional Western academic intelligence
tests.

Afro-Americans will probably get a higher than average IQ
over African in sub-Sahara Africa - but this can be
explained that - Afro-Americans enjoy a better environment
than Africans in Africa in a number of respects -
higher living standards, better nutrition and health, et
cetera. However, which of them would survive better in the
jungles of Africa I wonder?

I remember being told at school that I would never finish
high school, let alone go on to university. That was
because I was hopeless at Maths - due to the fact that
my Maths teacher used to pick on me and
humiliate me in class. I developed a mental block over her
subject.

I ended up not only finishing high school, but went on
and finished Uni as well. The rest as they say is
history.

Foxy,

IQ tests are tests of a persons ability to reason and the system has shown itself to be consistent across different languages and cultures and has been shown to have the strongest correlation to the success of the individual in life than any other testing method.
different cultures and races also have different attributes. The top races for IQ are Jewish and Asian with European falling behind. Color is not a major factor, as Africans are more genetically diverse than the rest of the world and within Africa show a range of IQs.

However, with regard success in life probably the single biggest cause of failure is being raised in a single parent family with the resultant poverty and poor education, and roughly 70% of black children in the USA are in single parent families.

Black children raised with 2 parents have pretty much the same outcomes as children of other races.

The question could then be: Who is responsible for all the single parent families?

Shadow Minister,

Despite the fact that IQ tests have been used for
almost hundred of years - it's still unclear how
accurate or fair an IQ test really is.

Despite the hype, the relevance, usefullness, and
legitimacy of the IQ test it is still hotly debated
among educators, social scientists and hard scientists.

To understand why, it is important to understand the
history underpinning the birth, development and
expansion of the IQ test. A history that includes
the use of IQ tests to further marginalize ethnic
minorities and poor communities.

I'll leave it at that.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this topic.
No surprises there.

LEGO, don't care what the Fascists Brotherly Institute (FBI) has to say about all these 200 times this or that, do you have evidence? Or do you just pluck statistics out of the air.

With all this superior IQ nonsense Europeans over the past 400 years (your number LEGO) have when it comes to slaughtering their own and others, been the most barbaric people on earth. Don't need the FBI to tell us that.

Protesting against White oppression in South Africa under the Apartheid Regime was often a death sentence for Blacks. After claiming to be a apartheid protester LEGO seen the error of his way and crossed to the other side. LEGO I'm interested, you claimed to have been protesting the 1971 South African racists rugby tour of Australia, Australia was out of Vietnam 1972, or were you something of a Yank mercenary after 1972. Yet earlier you claimed to be in Vietnam killing "Commies" what year was that? The reason, I find the two somewhat incompatible, the gung-ho commie killer, with the lefty apartheid protester.

http://www.cjpmefoundation.org/blacks_under_apartheid_south_africa#:~:text=Official%20death%20toll%3A%20174%20Blacks,1%2C222%20Blacks%20and%206%20Whites.

To Foxy.

IQ testing is not mumbo jumbo, or reading tea leaves. Intelligence testing is a science and it measures human intelligence accurately. The most positive endorsement of IQ testing's accuracy is that all of those humans of all races tested with having exceptionally high measured IQ always do well in life, while those with low measured IQ always do the opposite.

Science says that different races have different mean IQ's. That does not mean that there are no smart blacks or dumb whites, it just means that there are proportionately a lot more blacks with low IQ. And IQ is related to civilisation, which is logical. To create complex societies, humans need to developed those higher thinking abilities which primitive people do not. A primitives' concept of mathematics is "one, two, many." Indian people are black and they have had a civilisation for 3000 years, and they are smart.

When Origin of Species was first published it caused a scientific and religious furore. Most people refused to believe that human beings and apes had common ancestors. As late as 1925 in the US state of Tennessee, it was illegal for teachers to teach Evolution is schools.
But that was nothing compared to the discovery that all humans had once been black and had evolved in Africa. Even today, the Chinese refuse to believe that their race evolved from black Africans. That is the official position and it is taught as "science" in their high schools.

Science has a bad habit of destroying religious beliefs and kooky ideologies. Today, for political and historical reasons, politicians even in the supposed "free world" are promoting a false ideology that all races are equal. The rub is that the only way they can therefore explain away why some minorities are always dysfunctional is to blame the white race. This is leading to race hatred of whites by those dysfunctional minorities who want to believe that we are responsible for all their problems.

And you are helping to perpetuate this race hatred of your own race by ignoring science and endorsing a kooky ideology.

To Paul1403

Calling Europeans "the most barbaric people on earth" is racism. It is just ama-a-a-azing how you naive "anti racists" can not even see your own racism towards your own people. You are so used to self flagellating yourselves that you think it is normal.

I have been presenting reasoned arguments and convincing evidence that some races are smarter than others for the last 34 pages of this topic. And now you want me to do it again? Well, I will. But first, I have asked you twice to present your evidence that all races are equal, and instead you have prevaricated and presented the premise that all races were of "equal value". This premise was unsupported by any reasoned argument as to what this even means, or why you think that way.

If you are debating with somebody who is all over you like a rash and making you feel uncomfortable, maybe it is time to turn on your objective reasoning capability and reassess your entire ideology with logic?

In your desperation, you are now questioning my integrity based upon a peculiar inability to understand the timeline as to when I stopped being brainwashed by the Right and the Left and instead started thinking impartially. Which is what smart people are supposed to do.

My family had a distinguished military record that I was intensely proud of. My grandfather was not only at Gallipoli, he was badly wounded at Bersheeba (if you even ever heard of that famous battle). My father was in Greece, Crete, Syria, and New Guinea. My uncle Clate a Rat of Tobruk. My uncle Charlie, Bomber Command. Of course as an 18 in year old in 1969 I wanted to fight.

But unlike yourself, I did my homework and realised that what our government was telling the public was a stupid lie. They were heady days in the 70's. Us baby boomers thought we could change the world. The next cause the leftists pointed my generation at was Apartheid. I did my homework again and realised that this time the leftists were lying.

LEGO,

Well I can say one thing. This discussion has not been
boring.

I appreciate the jokes.

But for me this discussion has now run its course.

I look forward to our next one.

Take care.
Stay safe.

Foxy,

Considering that the test is colour blind, I find the accusation that the test has been used to discriminate against minorities somewhat implausible, and in fact the reverse should be true.

Note that IQ can be affected by poor nutrition or injury, but it is a snapshot of an individual's ability to solve problems and is the single most effective method of testing IQ available today.

LEGO,

I see you come from a long line of violent people. You say you did your homework, exactly what did that involve? You appeared to have made several seismic shifts in thinking over a short period of time. Being a "commie killer", to an apartheid fighter, to a white supremacists, an amazing amount of transformation.

For my way of thinking, simply basing a persons worth according to their race is flawed and unacceptable. To generalise a whole race of people according to a European devised IQ test is also of no value. Take three people from history, Florence Nightingale, Mahatma Gandhi and Martin Luther King Jr, I don't know their IQ's, you might you seem to know everything else. To prioritise these 3 under your white supremacists thinking, based on race is simple; Nightingale 1 (European), Gandhi 2 (Asian), King 3 (African/American). I say they are all different, so diverse as human beings, their contribution to humanity so different from each other, that you cannot prioritise them in anyway. For you its like cricket players Allan Border, Brian Lara, Sunil Gavaskar, based on test averages its Lara, Gavaskar Border, based on your race IQ generalisation its Allan Border, Sunil Gavaskar, Brian Lara. Based on their contribution to cricket, well could argue that on all day. Do you get where I am coming from.

LEGO,

What about this claim of yours; "humans of all races tested with having exceptionally high measured IQ ALWAYS do well in life," (My caps for ALWAYS).

Ted Bundy
Harold Shipman
Jeffrey Dahmar

What do these three have in common? Did they all do well in life as you would claim.

I came from a family of soldiers who fought in some of WW1 and WW2's most notable battles, and I am very proud of that. Since you have such a low opinion of Australian soldiers, then I can only conclude that your own family were shirkers, and they probably spent both world wars selling black market sausages.

There are smart and dumb people in all races, but the proportions are very different. Human intelligence is measurable, and cognitive metricians are scientists.

Whether you like it or not, races have different IQ bell curves of intelligence. The earth is not the centre of the universe. Human beings and apes had common ancestors. All human beings evolved in Africa and spread around the world. These four scientific facts created furore's when they were first proposed by scientists, and conservative ideologues like your good self tried to howl the scientists down every time.

When Galileo used his telescope to prove that not everything revolved around the earth, he was brought before the Pope and shown the instruments of torture that would be used on him if he did not recant. The Pope knew Galileo was right, but he shut him up for political reasons. When Nobel prize winner Francis Crick, co discoverer of the double helix chromosome, and head of the prestigious Human genome Project, made an offhand remark to a journalist about Africans having low intelligence, the political establishments of the world did the same thing to Crick as the Pope did to Galileo. He was fired from the HGP, sacked from his university, and had his named chiselled off every brass plaque ever caste in his honour.

Today, all scientific conferences involving human genetics are held in camera with the press pointedly excluded. Just like in Galileo times, where Galileo's contemporary scientists knew he was right but were cowed into silence, today's geneticists know that some races have low intelligence and are far more prone to violent behaviour than other races. And you are part of the howling mob who keep the scientists from telling you what you fear to hear.

LEGO,

Of course, different groups, classes, even genders and personalities, may have different IQ bell curves, since people exist in different circumstances with different levels of opportunity - but a score on an IQ test measures only how well someone does on an IQ test. It may not measure intelligence at all.

I wouldn't be surprised that if someone took the tests every, say six months or year, they would do better and better. They would learn how to do the tests, what was expected, how to pace oneself, etc.

Joe

LEGO, your claim that; "humans of all races tested with having exceptionally high measured IQ ALWAYS do well in life" is false, unless you believe those of the European race with high IQ's and commit mass murder have done well in life. Is that why you didn't respond.

WWI death toll 20 million, WWII death toll 85 million in just two European instigated wars, lets add the war you went off to "kill commies" in Vietnam War, a war that seen a million Vietnamese children die, were those children commies. That alone puts the lie that Blacks are prone to violence more so than other races. Maybe you consider war something special and not state state sanctioned murder. The United States in WWII murdered 250,000 children, women, old people, all non combatants with atomic bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. In dozens of other Japanese and German cities the allies murdered million of non combatants. The other side did also, but not as effectively, must not have been intelligent enough.

BTW; I would be proud if my ancestors were "selling black market sausages" in war and not off somewhere murdering innocent women, children and old people.

In a program for gifted children conducted in Broward County Florida, it was found that the vast majority of children directed to the program were white from affluent neighbourhoods, only minimal numbers of Hispanic and Black children made the program. The children IQ's were tested and indeed their scores were uniformly high. That for some would indicated that white children have an obvious intelligence advantage over the other two groups.

Not until an investigation exposed the biased nature of the program, gifted white children were entering on mass, few missing out. Hispanic gifted children made the grade in lesser numbers than warranted, and black gifted children in far less numbers that those who would be otherwise eligible. And there is no racism? Shows the superiority of the whitefella just as LEGO has been telling us.

To Paul1404

I said VERY high and VERY low intelligence.

You were correct to point out that a minority of criminals have reasonably high intelligence, but IQ testing in prisons have established that the overwhelming majority of criminals have low intelligence. Certain ethnicities are very disproportionately represented in prisons, so put two and two together, if you are capable of such a mental challenge. Criminal psychopaths and criminal "masterminds" usually possess reasonably high intelligence but their numbers are fortunately very low.

Now you are attempting to claim that European wars that claimed millions of lives are somehow proof that Europeans are very violent. Wars are common among all races unless you are once again proposing the racist premise that Europeans are more violent than others. I could say something like that about Africans, because I am a racist. But you are supposed to be an anti racist, so making inferences like that about any race is hypocritical and PC sacrilege.

If there is one thing I am proud of about my life is that I like many of my generation had the opportunity to go to war, and would not go. Like old Bob Dylan used to sing, "When I saw those cities burning, I knew I was learning, that I'm not a marching anymore." Australia's involvement in the Vietnam war was caused by people like you. People who are unable to impartially look at both sides of a problem and objectively figure out either who is right or wrong. You have been brainwashed to think that white racism has caused all minority dysfunction, and just like the Australians who said "If we don't stop them in Vietnam we will be fighting them on Bondi Beach", you can't think past that mental border in your brain. Even though another perfectly logical explanation exists which covers everything.

If the fact that some ethnicities are dysfunctional in every European society that they are either already a part of, or have immigrated into, is caused by white victimisation, how is it that Asians and Jews in European societies prosper so well?

LEGO, it was your claim that blacks are more violent, to that I highlighted Europeans ability to be just as violent as all other races. The European has developed the ability through his materialism to kill more effectively than others.

"IQ testing in prisons have established that the overwhelming majority of criminals have low intelligence. Certain ethnicities are very disproportionately represented in prisons, so put two and two together,"

That my dear chap is crap, like several of your claims, it is a figment of your imagination. Unless you can point to reliable scientific research to confirm your assertion then although it might be true, its made up. People in jail may be less educated than average, but not necessarily less intelligent.

"I'm tired of being called a racist when I'm just pointing out a scientific fact," wrote Kelso on Facebook this morning in a feeble attempt to rationalize his idiotic worldview. "European-Americans are just better. Like, as in biologically and whatnot." "Want proof of my genetic greatness? Just look at my white skin," declared Kelso.
"It must make the SJWs down at Wal-Mart jealous, because apparently I'm too white for them to hire me."

When reached for comment, area Wal-Mart manager Carla Overton outright rejected Kelso's theory for his declined job application. With an IQ of 92 Kelso was seen as unsuitable for employment by Wal-Mart.

To Paul 1506

Your premise is that Europeans are just as intrinsically violent as other races and your "proof" is that European wars have killed millions, while other races have not totted up such a high "butcher's bill".

I only get 350 words per post, so trying to explain complex concepts is difficult, but here goes.

Europeans men were once very violent men, just like the African, Hispanic, and Pacific Islander men today. They used swords, knives, clubs, axes, and spears, to kill each other at very close quarters. But 2,000 years of the most violent men in European civilisation genetically eradicating each other has meant that the ratio of violent men to non violent men gradually diminished. There was another factor as well, for much of European history, the most common punishment for violent offences was execution, or imprisonment of such bad conditions it was virtually a death sentence anyway.

European armies today have a real problem finding enough infantrymen who are intelligent, decent men, and still natural born killers. Military psychologists claim that only about 12-15% of European men can kill at very close range and not become psychiatric cases from doing so. These men could be considered any societies natural protectors and infantrymen. I know that does not gel with the tens of millions killed in WW1 and 2, or the scenes from Hollywood movies. But most killing today is caused by very lethal mass killing crew served weapons, or aircraft at very long range, where the crews "cannot hear the screams and see the blood."

The leaders of European armies for the last 250 years were well aware that most young men in their armies will not kill the enemy if they can see them, and will turn into psychiatric cases if forced to do so. (the Romans knew it earlier) It is only now that Hollywood is beginning to reflect this reality, as in scenes from the movies "Gettysburg" and Clint Eastwood's "Unforgiven." Police officers forced to kill violent offenders must undergo compulsory "grief counselling" to try and stave of Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome.

"My information", that there is a causal link between low IQ and criminality, comes from two books I have read, "A Mind To Crime" by Dr Anne Moir and David Jessel (in which the word "race" is never mentioned) and "The Bell Curve" by cognitive metrician scientists Richard Hernstein and Charles Murray. Confirmation that they are right comes from me either reading books on actual crimes, or watching real life crime shows on youtube where it is as obvious as an outback dunny that almost all criminals are blithering idiots.

However, since I like to know both sides of a position before I commit myself to a side, I read a book by a couple of people who vehemently denied that race, genetics, or IQ could have anything to do with criminality. I was intrigued as to how the authors of this book (The War On Children") could be able to counter the compelling scientific evidence that crime, IQ, and genetics were linked. I can't name this books two authors, as I have moved house recently and many books are still packed away.

The answer was, they didn't even try. The authors based their opinions either on moral arguments involving Nazi Germany and Eugenics, or conspiracy theories involving drug manufacturer Eli Lilly. What was really interesting in their book was that the authors let slip that the US NAACP had successfully lobbied the US Congress to remove funding from any scientist involved in the research of any scientific discipline investigating race and crime.

Any party with vested interests who tries to stop scientists from investigating anything is intellectually bankrupt. That decided me.

Since then, simply watching the news confirms everything I now accept as true. Watching Sudanese gang members robbing a jewellery store in Melbourne without even masks on, right in front of high definition security cameras, is a case in point. Something similar even happened at my own local bank branch.

LEGO, do you get this guff of yours out of the Nazi Handbook, or do you make it up yourself?

"European armies today have a real problem finding enough infantrymen who are intelligent, decent men, and still natural born killers. But most killing today is caused by very lethal mass killing crew served weapons, or aircraft at very long range, where the crews "cannot hear the screams and see the blood."Stating the obvious, with sophisticated mechanisation they have no need for unintelligent gung ho cannon fodder, the last of that was Vietnam where America and its flunkies put half million low IQ men into the field, btw man of knowledge, what was their average IQ? 27,28 no 29?

"The leaders of European armies for the last 250 years were well aware that most young men in their armies will not kill the enemy if they can see them, and will turn into psychiatric cases if forced to do so."

That's why 100 year ago the British Army launched a headlong assault with 120,000 infantrymen against machine guns at the Battle of the Somme in WWI. Losing almost 20,000 dead in a few hours, or was that just a "jolly bad show", by men of higher intellect?

"(the Romans knew it earlier)" did you get that from Monty Python's Life of Brian, or did you just make it up.

Does the cleverness of changing my nick give you a feeling of "superiority", I hope so, because if its meant to be funny it as funny as that man of yours, Heydrich Himmler doing stand up comedy, it all falls flat.

BTW, will I be superior to if I change your nick from LEGO to DODO, or WACKO or maybe even DILDO.

Giday LEGO

OLO's own Himmler, Reichsführer of the Schutzstaffel.

On the occasion of Colston the Slavers pull down http://youtu.be/04NXGb1pA6g

Here's a poet of dusky colour to wrap your American gums around http://youtu.be/b3DKfaK50AU

That black poet you just saw - is Vanessa Kisuule. She has a personal website http://www.vanessakisuule.com/biography and you?!

To paul1408.

I would refer you to US Army psychologist Lt. Colonel Grossman's book "On Killing" for his opinion about whether most infantrymen today will kill without turning into Psychiatric cases.

I am glad you knew something about Vietnam and low IQ troops. Let's fill in what you don't know.

The US Army, the world's foremost technological army, knows that IQ testing is accurate and it uses the scores to assesses the suitability of recruits for their usefulness to the army. During WW2, the most intelligent soldiers were reserved for duties within the continental USA. The yanks did not want their brightest getting killed off. If you know anything about warfare, you already know that of the five types of front line units, it is the infantry by a big margin which takes the most casualties. Therefore, the US had a policy in WW2 of assigning low intelligence "Hicks, Micks, and Spics" as infantry.

This policy was carried over into the Vietnam war, where in the US conscript army, "McNamara's Morons" filled out the infantry while the university caste stayed home. Thus there were US soldiers shooting up heroin and smoking dope while on patrol.

But there was another aspect to the war. Aware that most infantrymen would not kill the enemy, the US Army for the first time in history used "Operant Conditioning" to brainwash soldiers to overcome their natural human inhibition towards killing members of our own species. This worked just fine, but had unintended tragic consequences. 62.500 US soldiers died in Vietnam, but in the 20 years after the war, an incredible 60,000 committed suicide. They could not live with the guilt.

The US Army today is volunteer and they try to get men of at least average intelligence or better to become infantrymen. The US Army post WW2 derided infantry before Vietnam, and other than 1 division of paras, had none. It now has four infantry only divisions classified as elite. And they try to recruit the most intelligent among that 12-15% demographic who can kill other human beings without getting serious psychiatric problems.

To Paul1409

I love reading books on history, psychology, sociology, social psychology, criminology, astronomy, and especially first hand historical accounts. That is why I am all over you like a rash, and can present my arguments in the manner of teacher talking down to a retarded child. Your own delivery is woeful, and you are not so much a debater as an angry heckler. You should at least try to present your opinions calmly in the form of reasoned arguments. But you can't. Your opinions aren't thought out because they were programmed into you by your peers. Like your clothes, your opinions are a fashion statement.

The British army lost almost every battle for 200 years because the leadership of the British Army were incompetent aristocrats. Ludendorff said that "the British soldier fights like a lion but is led by donkeys." The Boers made it a crime, punishable by death, for any Boer soldier to kill a British general.

The situation with the British Army for 200 years draws parallels with today. It was not necessarily because the aristocrats who made up British generals lacked intelligence, it was because they stopped thinking critically and instead relied entirely upon the "the book" and class prejudices for their decisions. They did not need to think things through because they were the smart aristocrats and therefore infallible anyway. The Greeks call stupidity based upon arrogance "hubris".

This same hubris exists today within the smart tertiary educated Brahmin caste, of which you are a stirling example, who think that they must always be right about everything because of who they are. They don't need to think things through. This makes them easy marks for any ideologue with any potty cause. All the ideologues have to do is present that ideology as the fashionable views of the educated caste, while the contrary view is presented as the opinion of low caste deplorables. The status conscious trendies then accept it with alacrity. It is very difficult to turn elitists away from their fashionable views because they have already linked their opinions to their own self image

LEGO,

Indulging in self praise like you often do, masks your insecurities, you are a perfect example of one suffering from Alfed Adler's "inferiority complex". You give little insight into yourself, but from what you have posted, at 18 your insecurities had you bumbling along as a flipping flunky behind "McNamara's Morons" (your words) in Vietnam, all for the joy of killing commies. You need to feel superior, otherwise how could you be a white supremacists. I am sure in the circles of those of low intelligence you move in, Neo-Nazi's, white supremacists, right wing extremists, you are indeed of the higher order of intellect.

You gave a reference to a mediocre US militarist, turned author, for something you claimed as fact. The work is criticised by more learned authority as the methodology used is viewed as questionable. Since it suits your narrative, you stick with it.

To Paul1410.

One expects a few insults and sneers when debating an opponent, but your entire post was just a personnel attack on me? Is that the best you could do?

You asked me "where did I get all this guff? "and I told you. I love reading and I am very widey read. I like to keep informed, and I do my homework on the topics I choose to give my opinions on.

Heckling is a poor reply to a person who is presenting reasoned arguments.The reason why you are getting angry is because you are failing badly on this topic. That's because you are suffering from hubris. You did not bother to do your homework before you decided which side was right, and you took the wrong side. All of your life your teachers, peers, and friends have told you that racism is just the most awful thing. Racists are idiots. Racists are Nazis. Racists are beyond the pale. End racism and the world will enter the golden age of Aquarius.

So you never even bothered to check whether or not the racists had a point. Why should you? The idea that the other guy might be right and your Brahmin caste of super brains might be wrong, never even entered your head. To become a heretic among the very peer group you associate as your own superior class would be an act of treason to you.

Perhaps it is just because I am an electrician that I saw things differently to you? I don't belong to your snobby peer group so I don't give a fig for their already low opinion of a deplorable like me. I think their constant puritan moralising, finger pointing, and always outraged attitudes are quite funny. And these so called "anti racists" made a very big mistake when they kept blaming my race for the endless problems of dysfunctional ethnicities. I was smart enough to recognise racism towards my own race when I saw it. And I wondered what was really going on?

That got me thinking straight.

But Paul1405

Does LEGO have so much to feel inferior about?

After all, why is LEGO posting a comment at "2:37:37 AM" above.

Is LEGO worried and can't sleep, or does he really live in the US?

Some American friends comment offline that LEGO lives in New York city.

He may not be American but of UK-Canadian extraction and of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proud_Boys South Asian Hindu Indian stock.

Hence LEGO's hatred of Muslims... Muslims being a minority in India, distrusted by Hindus.

Cheers

Yes plantagenet , I think Mr LEGO posts from afar, possibly somewhere in Africa. But we are a multicultural lot here and all nationalities are welcome. These small number of "intelligent" ultra-right guys are all the same, come in hard, don't deviate from the message, ridicule the opposing view as nonsense peddled by those with sinister ulterior motives, or just the gullible uninformed being led by the nose. Then they proceed to present unsubstantiated nonsense as fact, always claiming to be well read, and well versed, in all things to do with race. LEGO claims to have been delivering the message for 40 years, but when I asked him, how and to whom, he claimed up on the subject. Screaming in a basement at party meetings to a handful of nutters and true believers is hardly delivering the message.

The majority of the ultra-right activists, the unintelligent, the bovver boy types, have a different approach in delivering the message, they just want to smash heads, egged on by the ultra-right Intelligentsia. Hitler had Ernst Rohm and his SA to help deliver his message. Unfortunately for Rohm when he become too big a threat to Hitler he had to be deposed of.

LEGO, you say; "I love reading and I am very widey read. I like to keep informed, and I do my homework on the topics I choose to give my opinions on." Very good, I to have read much over the years on this subject, but unlike you with an open mind. Unlike you I have lived with brown people here in Australia and still do, and in Aotearoa and Fiji. Slept in their houses, talked at length with them on many things, socialised together, many I call friend, some are relatives. You talk of minority, how would you fit in being the odd man out in a group of 500? Not knowing the customs, not knowing the language, not knowing the people. How would you get on with them for say 4 days, sleeping in one big room with 200 of them, sharing the washing facilities, eating with them 3 times a day, something you can't get from books. I have some first nation blood, but I don't identity as Aboriginal.Truthfully, do you have one black friend, or brown fried, or Muslim friend, I suspect being such a cut above, you wouldn't lower yourself to their level.

To Paul1411

The degree to which any group of people will accept others from out groups into their group, depends upon many things. First, some cultures (eg Islam, National Socialist Germany) are extremely ethno/cultural/religious centric and are taught from childhood that out group members are inferior, and must be either ethnically cleansed or forcibly integrated into their culture and religion.

More tolerant cultures will accept out groups provided that the out group (even from different races) have most cultural values (what is generally considered right and wrong behaviour) very similar to their own, and similar IQ levels. For example, in white western society, Asians and whites get on quite well together Black African people with similar high IQ's to Asians and whites, do the same. There was a suburb in LA which was planned as a suburb for African/American professionals (doctors, lawyers, dentists, engineers) which was so peaceful and law abiding that white and even Asian professionals began to move in. Race is usually no problem at all among the upper classes where IQ levels are high and very similar.

But even within mono racial and monocultural populations, IQ groups form "classes" in every human society. Birds of a feather just keep sticking together, regardless of what quixotic dreams the leftist ideologues have for a classless, race blind society.

Where racial differences are highlighted by very different IQ levels, the out groups with low IQ's are simply going to form an intergenerational welfare class, and a more or a less professional criminal class, who will prey on the more successful classes that are usually racially dissimilar.

If out groups have very different cultural values and low IQ's to the host group, highlighted by very obvious racial differences, integration is impossible. Since cultural values are the glue which keeps societies together, serious social strife will be inevitable. This is greatly exacerbated if the out group has a rising population proportion, either through birth rate differentials or immigration. The result is always, race riots, civil strife, calls for separatism (into mono cultural and mono racial states), and even civil war.

Thanks Paul

Further on Trump the Hitler whisperer and "DT" LOSING the election, a sage buddy comments:

In his last days Hitler retreated into the fantasyland of Nazi (ie, his) ideology, ruthlessly applying diseased Social Darwinist ideas.

In March 1945 Hitler told Albert Speer that "if the war is lost the people will be lost also... it is best for us to destroy even [what the German people will need for elemental survival]. For the nation has proved to be the weaker, and the future belongs solely to the stronger eastern nation."

Hitler capped this with a truly ridiculous statement - even in a Social Darwinist fantasy context - that "only those [Germans] who are inferior will remain after this struggle, for the good have already been killed." Curious indeed: one might expect that the "inferior" wd die and the "good" survive, but who am I to argue with the authority?

I remain optimistic re DT's (Delirious Trump's) re-election - ie, he won't be.

Nice to see that the progressive (ie. Democrat) side of politics in the US has begun to learn a few dirty tricks. Lovely strike on the Tulsa rally. Apparently Trump is incandescent with rage.

Meanwhile Biden's quietly on message and projecting an air of steadiness, reliability and competence - everything Donald "Delirious" Trump's not.

Pete,

I agree with you and the vast majority that Trumpf is incompetent, a danger to the US (and the world), utterly egocentric, and technically a moron, but apart from that and the fact that he is a sleaze, a philanderer and a rich bully, perhaps a psychopath too, he may not be a bad bloke. Nah.

I don't have much time for Biden either, he's also a sleaze, a forty-year time-server. He doesn't deserve the nomination, or the presidency. I wish that the Democrats would prevail upon Michelle Obama to stand, she'd be a shoo-in. Ah, the Obama days, when there were almost no scandals, and the White House was never known for incompetence.

Joe

Hi Joe

Yes Biden wouldn't be up to "standard" in any other major democracy than the low-candidate-standard US.

But with Herr Trump the only alternative, Yanks could do the least damage to the world by voting Biden.

The bookies money is on Kamala Harris being chosen by Biden as VP. She looks sound http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamala_Harris and more than likely will be needed to step in.

Cheers

Pete

LEGO, peddling your brand of nonsense once again. With your unsubstantiated diatribe of guff!

"First, some cultures (eg Islam, National Socialist Germany) are extremely ethno/cultural/religious centric and are taught from childhood that out group members are inferior." There is no proof that the vast majority of Muslims have been indoctrinated to believe that they are superior, certainly to no more extent than Christians believe they are gods chosen people, and therefore superior. Your National Socialists reigned over Germany for 12 years 1933/45. They had not convinced the German people from childhood that Jews were inferior. In fact Jews had been an accepted part of German society for a couple of hundred years before the Nazi's came to power. What Germans become was ambivalent towards the treatment of Jews by the Nazi state.

"For example, in white western society, Asians and whites get on quite well together" Are you saying when the likes of you, Hanson and others of the far right were kicking the Asian can in Australia not too long ago, you were wrong to do so. Now your bunch want to kick the Muslim can.

According to you, you are an electrician with a very high IQ 130 or more, I did deduce that from what you said earlier. The electrician trade, according to Henmon-Nelson IQ testing, people so occupied rang from IQ 78 to 115, you must be an underachiever given your high IQ. According to the same testing my former occupation ranges from IQ 92 to 128, which puts be at the higher end of my profession. Should I look down on you given my superiority according to IQ and all your guff?

That changing my nick all the time, does that puff up your ego, I certainly hope so.

To Paul1412

Heckling again, Paul? I guess that is all you can manage.

I have no idea where you ever got the idea that I have said I have an IQ of 130. You have obviously got me mixed up with another contributor.

The National Socialists in Germany justified their wars in the East by claiming that the Russians and Jews were untermenchen (sub human.)

Muslims are taught to hate non Muslims. The Koran is full of racist quotes denigrating non Muslims, encouraging violence and terror against them, and even telling believers not to take non believers as friends. According to an article in the left wing journal "Time", Saudi schoolbooks tell Saudi schoolchildren "all infidels are your enemies." The message from Mohammad was clear. Muslims should use military force to spread Islam into the lands of the kuffar (unbelievers). No wonder Hitler praised Islam as "a warriors religion" and Ghengis Khan chose Islam as the official state religion of the Mongols.

Asians and whites get on quite well together. As white suburbs in Australian cities become more and more Asian, they do not change from being peaceful communities into violence and crime ridden communities like the infamous "Gaza Strip" in Sydney (Caterbury-Auburn-Fairfield) where in the year 2000, 55% of the handgun shootings in the entire state of NSW occurred. School teachers in white/Asian areas do not need security guards at school to protect them from violent students as in the "troubled" (read Muslim) areas of Sydney.

White people deplore the wholesale immigration of Asians into their communities, not because the Asians are badly behaved, but because no race wants to be a minority within their own communities. The Asians I have spoken to would like to see Muslim immigration into Australia stopped. In one Federal election, the guy handing out "One Nation" leaflets at my local polling booth was Chinese. When I spoke to him, he smiled and said "I am from Mindanao, and I have seen what Muslims do to Chinese".

Interesting Paul

If LEGO is, in fact, a voortrekker and gay Untermensch, on the IQ scale.

I would say a man's sexuality is his own affair!

Cheers

you wrote on 12 June -Big Nanna - firstly may I say I have respected your comments on Aboriginal issues you have brought to this forum for many years, your voice - and many others - MUST be heard in this current 'WOKE' community.

You state - SAINTS. So many questions.

I respond - and I have so many more questions.

You state - "Firstly the Royal Commission into banking. These rip off schemes don’t just affect aboriginal people they also affect illiterate and semi illiterate whites as well, just that proportionally, more blacks are illiterate. The answer to the whole issue is to ensure aboriginal kids are better educated.

My response - The Banking Royal Commission alerted "viewers" as to the problems Aboriginals have with "identification" for documentary evidence as to opening an account. - Why?

You state - "I’m in a perfect position to understand the deficits in education for these kids. I have 25 aboriginal grandkids and those who were educated in remote communities are way behind their peers. I currently am caring for a 12 year old granddaughter who has come into town to do her secondary education and she is working at the same level as her 9 year old sister, who also lives with me. The problem is not with the teachers, it’s with the parents, in towns as well as communities. Parents aren’t ensuring their kid’s get a goods nights sleep and go to school everyday rested, and with a full belly. Parents don’t encourage their kids to do homework or read a book.

Kids are regularly exposed to violence, drugs and alcohol at home so how can anyone expect them to do well. As always, this does not apply to all aboriginal families, just a section, but those kids are the ones who will grow up dysfunctional and end up in prison."

So I ask all posters to this forum to addresses the "future" of Aboriginals within our community.

All Australians wish for all Indigenous Australians to secure an education, in order to prosper and growth, within their community.

Author, please respond.

I wanted to respond to you big Nanna, however my computer caution "alert" - whether it be with you or someone else.

I will move on.

SAINTS,

Very crudely, there are two diverging Indigenous populations in Australia - one more urban, oriented towards work and education - there are currently around fifty thousand Indigenous university graduates across Australia (mainly in the cities) - while the other popu8lation is welfare- and security-oriented, and somewhat averse to work and education.

Provided that the one (urban-oriented) population is not hindered by clumsy policy and incompetent organisations, it may have a bright future: it will certainly grow. The other may wither away with each generation.

I was talking to a young woman last week from up in the Flinders - she had just been beaten up by her son, and was desperate to get in touch with her mother for a share of royalties (from where, I have no idea: perhaps national park fees, or maybe mining), but her mobile was dead and she had no money to get it charged. It must be no fun at all to be on lifelong welfare.

25 years ago, I ran a series of Career Aspirations workshops and I think she may have been at one that we ran in Port Augusta, a bright girl in about Year 9: I think she'd wanted to be a kindergarten teacher.

Joe

Loudmouth

Big Nanna who for years has fought to expose the abuse of children within aboriginal communities, including those children who are not going to school on a full-time basis, plus the teaching curriculum for Aboriginal students - not being able to attain their full potential.

All previous Governments just throw more money to Aboriginal Agencies/activists without addressing the problem.

1. Children didn't ask to be born.
2. All children must attend school - without education no child cannot "dream" and achieve their full potential in whatever path of life they chose to aspire.
3. All children should have the full support of parents in order to achieve above.
4. All children should be taught English in schools as the "universal language of Australia" - as with all other migrants to Australia.

Why are children running around the streets at midnight plus, on week nights.

If you ask the children this question they will respond "It's safer out here than at home".

So my question is, why do so many school children feel so unsafe in their own homes?

Of course, it comes down to the "parents" - so parents where are you and why do you get a "free pass" by all Government and agencies as to why your children not feeling safe at home and having to run the streets, whereby encouraging criminal activity or drugs.

5. I ask all parents of Aboriginal children (Australia's children) how many years does the (Government and Australian taxpayers) have to continue to discuss "closing the gap" with the family situation for aboriginal children (Australia's children) not being addressed?

More taxpayers's money won't fix this problem, currently at
$10B per annum.

It's time for some honesty by all sides of Government including those Activists to address the truth and stop the pandering.

Then, and only then will we get real reform for our Aboriginal Australian children.

Saints,

You ask, "Why are children running around the streets at midnight plus, on week nights. ....... If you ask the children this question they will respond "It's safer out here than at home"."

The answer often in one word is, "Uncle".

On the other hand, I put this up earlier today:

The Closing the Gap targets are being revised - those relating to education are being revised upwards (Australian, pp. 1 & 7). The government wants to set a target of 70 % of ATSI youth having tertiary qualifications (i.e. Certificate III and higher) by 2028.

At the last Census, there were just under a quarter of a million ATSI people in Australia between 15 and 39. If we fiddle with the figures a bit, cutting out all those under 20, and over 40, and use the residual figure as a surrogate, this means about 181,714 people.

In the last Census, 48,704 ATSI held university-level qualifications; 70,939 had completed Certificate III and IVs, making a total of 119,643 out of a rough population of 181,714, or 65.8 %.

The proportion of that population with university qualifications was around 26.8 %.

From the last Census to this next one, next year, ATSI university graduate numbers will rise by about 40 %, to about 68-70,000. By the 2021 Census, the relevant Total ATSI population (20-39 years) will have risen to about 212,600. So about 32 % of ATSI aged 20-39 will be university graduates by the next Census - i.e. effectively by the end of this year. Perhaps as many as 90,000 will have completed Certificates III and IV.

So close to 160,000 ATSI would have 'tertiary qualifications' out of a population of 212,600 young ATSI adults, or 75 % (and close to a third of that population with outright university qualifications).

My dear late wife wrote about 'Two Indigenous Populations' back in 2006 or 2007, and with the equivalent of three-quarters of the young adult population having tertiary qualifications, I would respectfully suggest that the other quarter have plenty of role-models.

Cheers,

Joe

Somewhat amused when it was announced that parity of incarceration rates for Indigenous and Non-Indigenous was hoped to be achieved by 2093. I thought wow is that a typo, why so quickly only 73 years away. It was soon taken down

Paul,

On incarceration rates and poor-bugger-me attitudes: I've got to the point where I can freely say,

"Frankly, my dear Paul, I don't give a damn."

Joe