Herd immunity? Worked with the plague, didn't it, but only after several reinfections and a huge fatality rate. Two thirds?

Don't know of anywhere that has worked for HIV, Ebola or Hendra. Although, If one is reinfected enough times?

One has heard that convid-19, may be treated with HIV antivirals and or antimalaria medication?

Kids don't seem to get as sick? Could it be, they spend more time outdoors playing/up to mischief/attending school and school playgrounds and consequently exposed to more sunlight and vitamin D absorption. Which may assist the natural immune response?

Doesn't matter, given the buffoons in charge and making mad decisions, Including shutting down schools and forcing kids indoors and in front of screens where their vitamin D absorption would be negligible!

And these same buffoons ideologically opposed, with die in a ditch first resolve to the cooperative capitalism economic paradigms that are all that will prevent another depression.

I mean, co-ops were the only, free market, private enterprise, business model that survived the great depression largely intact. And could be created, funded and facilitated with the same billions of debt, we are creating now, to save the current status quo!

And in too many cases, dog chasing its tail with good money following bad down the same rabbit hole! And only able to delay, not prevent the inevitable.

Whereas, funded and facilitated, small niche co-ops as brand new startups, can start and make stuff we need right now, given the loss of supply. stuff like direct marketed footwear and clothing, just for starters. And as that marketing moel, at prices, even the Chinese cannot undercut!

WE NEED TO PUT PEOPLE BACK TO WORK!

All that prevents that here are tin-eared recalcitrant governments! And our price gouged energy supply! Plus, our extraordinary complex and costly tax system! All overseen by the above, or their creation!

Direct marketing co-ops are not limited to footwear and clothing, but dozens of other mass-produced cottage industry durables as well, as we saw during the rollout/creation of the Celtic economic miracle! Capiche?
Alan B.

The state run geriatric facility in a large town near us has just had an edict through that no patients will be transferred to the general hospital if infected. The facility does not have the equipment for putting someone on a respirator. This is from a charge nurse who works there.

Basically it will be palliative care only until end of life.

This is now starting to get really blunt.

How many of us actually believe the figures from China, the origin of the global pandemic? Especially in light of the current rates of infection in Italy, which has a population 4% of China.

Mr. opinion. See no valid reason to doubt those figures. But the real test as China recovers, is the staged and rapid return to full capacity/industrial production and measurable by the smog levels, visible from outer space.

They can't hide that, nor its current spectacular absence. And streets etc, sanitised by the return of natural sunlight!

And the new norm, when China, as it must, completely transitions away from fossil fuels and factory farming. And starts to practise the missing good sanitation. Electrifies and decarbs the economy.

Factory farming more than anything else created both SARS1 and the current pandemic, commonly referred to as, convid-19,i.e., SARS2. Take care and stay safe!
Alan B.

Yes SR, there's a lot of calloused indifference in some of these smaller less well-equipped centres. And not their fault, if the respirators etc, are not shared equally through the land but where most voters are. Ditto all clinical trials.

If you live in rural and regional Australia, probably better off staying out of (maternity wards) hospitals an their "palliative care" The further out the better and as self-sufficient as poss!

Take care and stay safe.
Alan B.

Basically it will be palliative care only until end of life.
SteeleRedux,
That's what palliative care is designed to be ! After the end of life it's traditionally the Undertaker who takes over.
Here Qld anyway, might be different to where you are !

Alan B,

So you're saying that you believe that the Chinese Communist Party is reporting the figures correctly.

Doesn't it seem a bit strange that China has 24 times the population of Italy yet only has less than twice the number of total infections and about 75% of related deaths than Italy has currently?

And doesn't it seem at bit odd how China's rate of infection just stopped short of 81K and just flatlined?

Seems questionable to me especially given that China is the source of the coronavirus pandemic. But I guess if one is a Sinophobe anything coming out of China will look all right.

Dear Mr Opinion,

I think you meant sinophobe.

I am generally accepting the figures out of China as to the infection rate. They have instituted far more comprehensive measures than Italy and Australia. Schools were closed at the start of February in the total lockdown of Wuhan and neighbouring states. The figures started to stabilise a week later, which is consistent.

We are only just getting around to it here in Australia almost 7 weeks later. How many lives will have been lost as a result is yet to be determined.

SR,

I think the kid meant 'Sinophile'. You might be right that China controlled the spread of the virus earlier on, far more effectively than Italy is doing, by rigorously enforcing isolation, welding the doors shut on apartment buildings, etc.

It's regrettable that our use of language, especially other languages, is so lax: strictly speaking, 'Sinophobe' doesn't mean a hater of China (although Misopinionated may fit into that drop-box) but a fearer of China. 'Phobos' is the Greek word for 'fear', Misopinionated. 'Philos' is the Greek word for 'love'.

Just trying to help.

I suppose we are in for periodic self-isolation as long as it takes to develop and mass-produce a vaccine. In the US, thankfully, now that Trump has pointed out that the virus is not the US's fault, it will probably have limited effect there. Anyway it's China's fault, that's why it's called the China virus. That's how it goes for such eight-year-old mentalities.

On that criterion, we should call half-wittedness 'the American disease'.

Joe

As a good lefty I see Binoy is not about to waste a good emergency by not using it to try to push his socialist agenda. Not a good look today Binoy, too many recognise the ploy, & degrade the user instantly.

This is degrading your attempts to be a social commentator Binoy, appealing to only the left rusted on makes you just another hack.

You should try to do better.

Hi Joe. America is due for a great awakening/catastrophe. Given the profit first and foremost, millionaire health care model. That sees as many as 40% uninsured and just consigned to the not for profit charity sector.

And sure to be overwhelmed with a sinking Titanic-like jockeying for service/care! With huge overcrowding just making controlling any of the spread only effective if all state and national borders are closed and a dusk to dawn (shoot to kill) sate of annunciated, state of emergency, curfew imposed! Doors welded shut! Etc/etc!

And given the likely outcome, reinfection rates following reinfection rate and a wartime death toll. And all on President Trump's watch!

And not fixable by his usual labelling, it's all fake news!

Wouldn't want to be in his shoes come November. What does it matter where it started or who or what is responsible! What does that actually fix!

What matters is what actions so-called leaders take! And how many ideological imperatives they will jettison for best possible, best practice outcomes.

One of which would be maximised multiple teams working around the clock on multiple possible vaccinations and sharing data results! Then cooperating as never before to vaccinate the non affected/the surviving population, as a compulsory measure!

Until that happens will need to practise good neighbour, self-isolation/good sanitation!

Take care and stay safe!
Alan B.

America is due for a great awakening/catastrophe.
Alan B,
How long do you think before Australians wake up to it happening here ?

I should have said those who call themselves Australian !

Dear loudmouth2,

You wrote; "I think the kid meant 'Sinophile'."

And so did I. Oh well.

Loudmouth and SteeleRedux,

I suppose SR is right about me using uppercase 's' and Loudmouth is wrong in thinking I meant to write Sinophile.

I left a 'not' out of my last sentence and "But I guess if one is a Sinophobe anything coming out of China will look all right." should have read "But I guess if one is a Sinophobe anything coming out of China will not look all right." I was referring to myself for being sceptical of the figures coming out of China, especially given the European experience.

Loudmouth I do know the difference between 'philos' and 'phobos'. I did Greek towards my Arts studies. We can't all be self-taught like you.

SteeleRedux,

At the end of the first month the infections in China began to peak while in Italy they keep ramping up.

Something doesn't look right to me. I don't think China just happens to be more effective in combating the spread of the virus within its borders. It definitely didn't do a good job of preventing it from spreading to the rest of the world. No, definitely something wrong with China's reporting.

COVID-19 might have had its origin in China but it's the Westerners who are spreading it due to their indiscipline & disregard for others.
They're the travelphiles !

individual,

Are you okay? Everything okay at home? Still on the wagon?

Individual:
Don't need a crystal ball to see you're right! One only needs witnessing those scenes of a hugely crowed Bondi beach and so-called western doctors, with masks not used to cover their noses! And even as the news cameras zoomed in to film this asinine absurdity.

One has to ask, did said doctors get their medical degrees, from a weetbix box? I assume you didn't get off the wagon, cause you were never on it, as the master of the professional insult and cyberbullying has totally and unnecessarily alleged? And demonstrates as nothing else can, he has lost the plot and any semblance of civilised debate!

And as an obnoxious cretin? Has to resort to hurling, barely veiled insult! And very likely is too deep in his cups and safe on the family ranch, to give a flying french frankfurt.

I don't suffer fools lightly and have engaged in some robust debate with some of our less intellectually able, when there was a case and a reason for that fire and passion. But not, I believe, when there never ever was!

Take care and stay safe.
Alan B.

We don't know if or when a vaccine will come. It wasn't a real goer with SARS. The only sure personal immunity may be that which comes from infection, and herd immunity will arise from enough personal immunities.

From my readings at http://www.imperial.ac.uk/mrc-global-infectious-disease-analysis/news--wuhan-coronavirus/ whatever the shape of the 'curve', the area under it is the same, meaning the same number of people will be infected. Flattening it reduces the intensity of need of ICU's, giving more a chance at survival.

So how do we flatten the curve sufficiently while getting everybody infected who is going to be, because that's what may need to happen without a vaccine. Right now we have the entire community practicing cleanliness, distancing and isolation, with the expectation of a vaccine to avoid the whole curve having to move through. But without a vaccine there will be no end other than a very long natural one, with associated economic ruination of people's lives. Meanwhile, an attempt is to be made to somehow put the economy into an induced coma so when we awake we just carry on from where we left off. Really?

From http://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-age-sex-demographics/ we see the vast percentage of mortalities occur amongst the older generation. This suggests younger people could live more ordinary lives, while becoming infected and recovering with high probability, without overwhelming the health system.
Meanwhile, the more vulnerable by age and co-morbities could quarantine, some remaining in the workforce online. As immunity builds amongst the young and their infection curve passes the remainder of the community would gradually emerge to a health system capable of providing a high survival probability.
The outcome of this path would be to soften the economic impact on those building homes and families.

There are extreme camps in all this. One calls for the virus to be let to run its course e.g. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/24/older-people-would-rather-die-than-let-covid-19-lockdown-harm-us-economy-texas-official-dan-patrick Another calls for total global lockdown, now.

cont'd

Cont'd from above:

To suggest a middle path accepting the inevitability of infections while minimising economic damage to people's lives leaves any government suggesting it to accusations of wrecklessness. It's a wonderful position for an Opposition to be in as every death is a nail in the government's coffin, regardless of its inevitability.