Climate change proponents are saying most of the events in the dot points will steadily deteriorate not suddenly go to zero. One exception is that fewer cyclones not more are predicted but they will be stronger. The author could be right about tree thinning. However Morrison has been quoting net emissions figures in which about 20 Mt of CO2 uptake by plants is deducted from about 550 Mt original emissions. Reduce tree cover and we reduce that deduction.

I'm afraid that deniers are up against as city temperatures nudge 50C. Most of the public thinks warming is happening. As they say if you are not part of the solution then you are part of the problem.

Taswegian. The rise in temps in cities is in fact Gaia's divine retribution to inner city dreamers who choose concreate canyons filled with soya and almond milk latte coffee bars.

Actually, its due to their choice and a fact of science known as the Urban Heat Island Effect. Melbourne's own central meteorological station in down town central, surrounded by concrete buildings, tarmac and 10,000's of cars per day driving past.

Same old same old. This is a subject that is going nowhere. Discussion is pointless.

People need to keep in mind that the climate change in our era is the consequence of global warming.

We know that natural events can warm the planet but we cannot do anything about the effects of sunspots, volcanic eruptions, or Milankovitch cycles. These things are outside of our control.

We know that carbon-based gases produced directly by human activity especially CO2 result in the greenhouse gas effect which in turn makes the planet warmer. Our CO2 production has gone from being almost negligible in c.1800 to 35 billion tonnes in 2017, rising exponentially, especially from the 1950s when global consumerism began to take hold.

Reducing greenhouse gas emissions is within our control. We know it can be reduced and we know that it will limit the warming of the planet.

Reducing global warming will limit the extent of climate change.

I only had to read the first two paragraphs before I realised that the article was based on a lot of untruths, so I read no further. Bushfires will come and go, but unless we do something, climate change will go on forever leading to our ultimate destruction.
David

VK3AUU,

Specifically, what two paragraphs are you referring to?

Typical of a coal enthusiast and climate change denier?

Needed to use some nondescript summation of California bush fires because he could find something there from a fellow traveller or two? To support his garbage in garbage out analysis.

Yes Genius, the climate changes with the waxing and waning of the sun! And it would seem to change around every 200 years with a change to the magnetic field, i.e. north-south reversal?

And in the waxing phase, there seems to be more activity and greater solar thermal heat hitting our planet, one of three in the habitable zone, the other two Mars and Venus. Venus being the hottest planet in the solar system with a moisture-laden CO2 atmosphere! Has a heavier atmosphere due to the fact its former oceans etc are now part of the heat-trapping CO and sulphur laden atmosphere and a surface hot enough to melt the rubber on our boot soles.

Conversely, during the normal cyclical waning phase, as we've been in since the mid-seventies. (NASA) Planet earth traditionally cools with advancing ice, etc!

Not what we have now and a plain as the nose on your face except for the coal addicted far-right who see their particular gravy train rumble to a halt and them holding a product we won't be able to give away soon, Genius!

With the designed and programmed (demented) destruction of our manufacturing sector, via moribund government policy, we are made for too reliant on seasonal tourism and foreign student for our export income and domestic economy.

Thereby forcing up the price of real estate with unprecedented demand!

And this terribly fragile service industry damaged to the point of non-recovery by the unimaginable forest fires and now this killer virus!

And all down to administrations where the inmates have taken over and are running the asylum?

Hence garbage like this seeing the light of day and our once substantial manufacturing sector, lying in virtual ruins around our ankles, like a badly stained and shredded jockstrap!

A manufacturing-based and supported economy isn't hurt much by either event, Genius! TBC.
Alan B.

I am really getting jack of those who will not have a bar of any notion of AGW then posting 'evidence' which directly includes references to it;

During the 2017-19 fires in California, AGW believers and its Hollywood luvies slammed the fires on climate change. However, the experts who reviewed them say "20% to 25% of the wildfire damage resulted from climate change, and "75% is the way we manage lands and develop our landscape".

So does the author accept a the role of human emissions in global warming or not. If he doesn't then he should save us from quotes that do.

Consistency is a marvelous thing in sustaining and argument.

I just saw on ABC News that Australia's scientists are writing a letter to Australia's politicians asking them to take action on climate change.

I wonder if Hasbeen, individual, mhaze, Loudmouth, Bazz, Josephus, and all of those other AGW / climate change deniers will counter this by writing a letter from their group to Australia's politicians asking them NOT to take action on climate change.

Mr Opinion

you get soothsayers mixed up with real scientist.

runner,

It was on the news. So I don't get your point.

Will you be rounding up your AGW / CC deniers to put together a letter to Australia's politicians asking them NOT to take action on climate change.

You won't have much trouble on getting Soot 'Beam up me Scotty' Morrison on board. He seems to want to be in anything where he doesn't have to do anything.

Mr Opinion, totally off topic query, but what's all this "Beam me Scotty" stuff about, are you a Trekkie? Why not focus on the topic, as opposed to your hatred of SCOMO, namely AGW attempts to blame bushfires on climate change over fuel load?

Have you read any of the last centuries reports on bushfires?

Just read one, the 2009 Victorian fire inquiry! Sobering thoughts for ardent AGW'ers and CCC'ers

As for steelredux, any excuse to not read anything that doesn't fit your elite view of the world!

All I know is we're having a year round fire season (since June 2019 and still going strong) burning people to death in Australia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019%E2%80%9320_Australian_bushfire_season

WOW!

How impressive is that. The Wikipedia page on our 2019-20 fires that haven't even stopped burning has a 30page plus page and over 400 references.

That's impressive material to pre-empt "social opinion" before the inquiries and RC. Wonder who funded someone to write this up so quickly?

Wikipedia is one on the few constructive features on the modern internet age, but this seems to be an oddly sourced page.

'All I know is we're having a year round fire season (since June 2019 and still going strong) burning people to death in Australia.'

certainly is a huge problem when that's all you know!

You deniers are losers.
Nature and physics does not give a stuff about your beliefs.
You better hope you are dead and gone when the real disasters kick in and the younger generations begin looking for retribution.

All this, garbage in garbage out stuff, reminiscent of big tobacco whose scientists were claiming it was a benign product while conveying the truth to their employers/masters. Ditto asbestos and for decades! And absconding the scene when the truth finally came out!

Similarly, the three trillion dollar a year fossil fuel industry!

All that prevents action are activists like the, in denial, Author, recalcitrant, tinned eared politicians who seem to believe to a virtual man, all they need is a better salesman!

You see where they are really coming from is protecting the coal industry and our energy exports although all that could be replaced in a decade with vastly superior carbon-free alternatives.

See thorium in four minutes or take butchers at a couple of relevant videos on Alan Goulding's Facebook page.

If the fires haven't convinced you we are heading in the wrong direction backing using and exporting coal nothing will!

It's not as though there weren't a smorgasbord of alternative choices and vastly superior energy products just waiting for official approval and nothing more! To start and decarb our economy and given leadership, the rest of planet earth!

Someone needs to lead as opposed to endless denials and accounting tricks to make the carbon we make and or export, disappear right before your very eyes! And our servants need to serve us as opposed to foreigners with very big pockets!?

Too many people have died and here I include the four a month on farm suicides at the hight of the drought! Lord knows how that's is supposed to improve after the disaster of 25 million acres burnt bare!

And we're chained to denialists determined not to change much other than carbon accounting tricks?

I hope they factor in the burnt 25 million acres and the extra CO2 this has added and the loss of trees and their carbon absorption lack for some months!

The smiling jackass strikes again? No names no pack drill but he knows who he is and what he and his ilk are responsible for?
Alan B.

Dear mikk,

It is interesting isn't it. Under a Labour government we would have been able to go to the rest of the world and plead for multilateral action on emissions and would have had an excellent case to do so.

Under this lot the rest of the world would just tell us to go get stuffed, and rightly so.

Not the proudest Australian at the moment.

Dear Alison,

You say; "As for steelredux, any excuse to not read anything that doesn't fit your elite view of the world!"

That is the most extreme case of the pot calling the kettle black that I have seen in a long time.

You still haven't answer the rather simple question of what it would take for you to accept that human induced global warming is occurring. Care to try.

Whatever the merits or not of Global Warming, living among the gum trees is eventually going to lead to disaster.

Roads lined with gum trees and dead wood that it is an offence to remove, lead to people fleeing bushfires being burnt to death.

What we need to be doing is looking at the short term solutions as a matter of urgency before next years fire season, be it long or short.

Under a Labour government we would have been able to
SteeleRedux,
Why is always when Labor is in opposition that they know how to manage everything better ?
The moment they get voted in they magically lose that ability !
Don't you find that somewhat strange ?

And how many decades will it be before the "Action against climate change!" has an effect? Planting a stack of trees to sequester carbon, only to see them, people, property, stock and wildlife enveloped in the conflagration, as often happens when attempting to create the socialist Nirvana.

Meanwhile, the ocean to the west and south of Australia is again anomalously cool:

https://www.weatherzone.com.au/climate/indicator_sst.jsp?lt=global&lc=global&c=ssta

Note that the Tasman Sea is anomalously warm, coincidentally where the smoke drifted. Did that smoke fertilize the ocean surface, causing it to warm? Has this resulted in the death of all multi-celled marine life as well as a billion people dying of thirst? No drought in New Zealand.

Cheers

@runner

'All I know is we're having a year round fire season (since June 2019 and still going strong) burning people to death in Australia.'

certainly is a huge problem when that's all you know!
Posted by runner"

You seem unconcerned that people burn, runner.

Part of your vengeful "Christian" "burn the abortionists" outlook? Aye runner?

'You seem unconcerned that people burn, runner.

Part of your vengeful "Christian" "burn the abortionists" outlook? Aye runner?'

actually plantagenet much more concerned about your ignorance. Green regressive ideology leads to much more death as shown by fires you attribute to your gw religion.

Runner. On this occasion I have to agree with you.
David

Giday runny and VK3AUU

I believe in nuclear weapons for Australia with the knowhow to be supplied by France and Israel.

Can you describe that as a Green policy?

Checkout my multi-million pageview website here:

http://gentleseas.blogspot.com/2020/01/two-extra-reasons-australia-chose.html

Cheers

Pete

One has to keep in mind that the AGW deniers do not know about a number of factors, including:

1. They do not know that the burning of fossil fuels like coal, oil and gas will create CO2.

2. They do not know that CO2 when trapped in the atmosphere will produce what scientists call the greenhouse effect.

3. They do not know what the greenhouse effect is.

4. They do not know that the greenhouse effect will cause heat to be trapped and stored in the atmosphere.

5. They do not know that the greenhouse effect exists.

“But AGW is not about science and is all about politics, and Michael Mann chooses to be political. The pro-AGW media, commonly promote AGW experts like Mann, while equally qualified experts are labelled as luddites, deniers, dinosaurs! …

Mann's first big-gig will be the National Climate Emergency Summit in February, where a 2-day love-in will develop a future action plan for Australia. Opening Speaker Mann will be supported by co-stars Peter Garett, Lenore Taylor, Clover Moore, Keryn Phelps, Adam Bandt to name but a few. Expect disruptions Melbourne.'

What a dazzling collection of local alarmist co-stars! But, one wonders why prominent alarmist Zali Steggall is not featured.

In any case, the most likely outcome is development of another futile action plan for Australia

BUT oh yes she is, along with Carmel Lawrence and John, Hewson!

Check out the website, https://www.climateemergencysummit.org/

what a cast its a who's who's of special people.

Though, not too many scientists.

thanks Alison Jane for pointing out the usual suspects. They could add Malcolm Turnbull to that list. Oh for a Trump to drain the swamp and rip up the Paris fraud.

Alison Jane, thanks for the info … and including
Tim Costello, Ross Garnaut, ex-firey Greg Mullins, Jane Caro and Ali Moore.

Nevertheless, one would have to be an optimist to expect anything useful from such a collection of warmists

Hi Mr O,

I am trying to think of points in common and points of difference. Would you agree that the main points in common with others of your ilk is that the earth is headed for a catastrophe unless drastic changes are made now to avert or at least ameliorate the catastrophe predicted to occur many decades into the future? Would you agree that this makes you more concerned with the future than the present?

As a point of difference would you agree that the people you argue with doubt the likelihood of catastrophe and are more concerned about the present than the future?

Cheers

Climate Change (for Whatever Reason) increasingly = Drought where fire can spread and faster = Longer, More Severe Fire Seasons

Basically fuel load reduction is a Furphy in many/most cases.

Fuel load burning is not a solution where:

A. many coastal and inland homeowners (from SA, VIC to QLD) wish to build their homes in existing or expanding forests.

B. in vulnerable cities and towns where suburbanites have large combustable gumtrees or pine trees in their yards.

C. where much fuel load is mixed into farmland. Understandably Farmers don't want their mixtures of homes, sheds, paddocks, windbreaks, orchids, and carbon-credit tree clusters burnt down by others. Farmers with vineyards often don't want fuel reduction (or backburning) smoke anywhere near their vines because smoke taints the wine, making the wine less palatable, drops the price or its a writeoff.

D. RFS managers report that Fire seasons are now so LONG that periods/windows to do fuel reduction burning are now very short and, even then, it is often too Wet for burning off.

Mr O, I've jumped right over the pages following your challenge about writing to the ministers about taking action on CC.
Well old chap, and any others who like to talk a lot and do nothing, I on the other hand am one who talks a lot, but follows it up with action in an attempt to DO something about it and not just talk about it.
I HAVE written, not to the ministers, but to the Prime Minister, explaining and saying essentially what you have challenged us to do and that is to do NOTHING about CC because it is a natural occurrence and the science confirms it.
I also explained that the little CO2 WE are alleged to produce is insignificant by any measure.
Adding that ANY attempt to introduce ANY of these renewable schemes at this time and of technological malaise, will be disastrous to our economy, especially when it is obvious that we need not do anything.
And any of these renewable suggestions are not solutions, only concepts, that to implement will prove far too expensive, unreliable and ultimately unworkable.
So there you have it, while every other fool in this country and around the world gets sucked in, there are more and more people like myself and a few other realists here on OLO, who saw through the BS long ago, and are not prepared to lie and follow the sheeple over the cliff.
You guys are better off actually being a little more skeptical and work things out for yourselves, because if you rely on references and other peoples theories and reasoning, you will only go round in circles, if you are truly taking in your findings.
Well anyway, once more I've done my bit.
Alarmists don't bother, but realists, I would suggest writing in to govt, but direct it at the PM's office, it will get the best chance to be read, then passed on to the respective ministers, but at least there is some common sense getting around the govt, and not this alarmist BS of a con.

SR, you really don't get it do you?
For someone who preports to be an authority on EVERYTHING you fail time and again.
Now you challenged Alison to explain the correctly described as a 'simple'question of what it would take to accept that human induced global warming is occurring?
Oh, SR, that's just too easy, Alison can abstain because I have the answer.
It would take nothing at all, because global warming has nothing to do with mankind and everything to do with the machinations of the planet and it's relationship with the sun.
If you are so smart why did you not read, research a little more, and Oh yes, when you come across something which debunks this man made bunkum, don't just gloss over it, read it, and just maybe you will start to learn the truth about all this BS.
If you find the reliable reports, you will find that Humans are not the evil demons we are portrayed as.
The most important thing you have to understand is that CO2 is a good gas and we need more of it.
The planet flourished when there was a lot more of it.
Iv'e got some videos, that will go some way to explaining things and that this whole thing is a con.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZdm-w6FmHo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewJ6TI8ccAw

Here's just a couple to get you started.

Roughly every thousand years, the earth warms and cools, warms and cools, in repeating and predictable cycles. And every damned "climate scientist" on earth knows that.

The history of the human race over the last five thousand years clearly shows that it was the warming periods which were greatly beneficial to the advancement of civilisation, while it was the cooling periods which were catastrophic to civilisation.

Cooling climates led to reduced evaporation and less precipitation. Coupled with freezing temperatures this resulted in severe droughts, crop failures, and wars caused by climate refugees (Vikings, Huns, Visigoths, Helvetii, Alans, and Vandals) abandoning their cooling and increasingly uninhabitable homelands and by sheer survival necessity invading the lands of other people who had the fortune to live in warmer climes.

The human race at present is in another one of the earth's wonderful scheduled warming periods which was right on time. And with over 7 billion mouths to feed we should be eternally grateful for that. But rather incredibly, instead of rejoicing that we are living in a warming period, somebody has invented a new quasi scientific doomsday religion which demonises what we should all be rejoicing in. I'll bet Tom Cruise and the Scientologists are gnashing their teeth that they did not think up this hoax first.

The shrill predictions of impending doom made by the climate cultist fortune tellers thirty years ago have proven to be laughably incorrect. So all they can do is point to every extreme weather event as "proof" that their wacky new religion's predictions are coming true.

And as the oceans refuse to rise alarmingly fast enough (they have been rising during warming periods for tens of thousands of years), and the Arctic stubbornly refuses to disappear and drown all the polar bears, and low lying island nations don't sink like Atlantis beneath the waves, they keep pushing Doomsday back yet another decade. And they will keep pushing it back until our present crop of psuedo intellectuals now supporting HIGW reverse their opinions, and pretend that they knew that HIGW was a hoax, all along.

LEGO,

Just in case you missed it earlier, here it is again:

One has to keep in mind that the AGW deniers do not know about a number of factors, including:

1. They do not know that the burning of fossil fuels like coal, oil and gas will create CO2.

2. They do not know that CO2 when trapped in the atmosphere will produce what scientists call the greenhouse effect.

3. They do not know what the greenhouse effect is.

4. They do not know that the greenhouse effect will cause heat to be trapped and stored in the atmosphere.

5. They do not know that the greenhouse effect exists.

Wrong on all five points, Mr Opinion. Since you think that CO2 must be the only possible reason for our present, scheduled, and right on time warming period, could you please explain how human generated CO2 caused

First Atlantic Warm Period about 7750 BC
Second Atlantic Warm Period about 7000 BC
First Saharan Warm period about 5800 BC
Second Saharan Warm Period about 5000 BC
Egyptian Warm period about 3200 BC
Sumerian Warm Period about 2200 BC
Minoan Warm Period about 1200 BC
Roman Warm Period about 400 BC to 300 AD
Medieval Warm Period about 1000 AD

In addition to that, could you please explain how this atmospheric CO2 mysteriously just disappeared within a few hundred years, causing the intervening cooling periods?

The whole HIGW hoax was as fanciful as the mid 70's "coming ice age" except that this time the UN saw a magnificent opportunity to create another useless and expensive department for their mates, where they could ride roughshod over sovereign nations in the quest to prevent a supposed immanent global catastrophe. The centrepeice of their scare was Michael Manne's laughable 1000 year "hockey stick graph, which any educated person knew was a complete fraud since it air brushed out the Medieval Warm Period and the Little Ice Age. The graph supposedly showed temperatures to 2000 going straight up. Which is funny since global temps fell slightly from 1998 until 2014, when they started rising slightly again.

Thus the 2006 "climategate" email

"The scientific community would come down on me in no uncertain terms if I said that the world had cooled since 1998. OK, is has, but that is only seven years of data and it is not statistically significant." And then another where the climate scientists discussed how they are going to "hide the decline."

Can human generated CO2 exacerbate naturally occurring rising temperatures? Probably, by how much nobody knows. Are warming periods beneficial to humans? Historically, yes. Can we stop global warming? No. Can we stop our emissions exacerbating global warming. No. Unless we can invent a civilisation without metals, concrete, and fossil fuels.

LEGO,

I'm right on all points. AGW deniers do not know about a number of factors, including:

1. They do not know that the burning of fossil fuels like coal, oil and gas will create CO2.

2. They do not know that CO2 when trapped in the atmosphere will produce what scientists call the greenhouse effect.

3. They do not know what the greenhouse effect is.

4. They do not know that the greenhouse effect will cause heat to be trapped and stored in the atmosphere.

5. They do not know that the greenhouse effect exists.

Those of us who have spent our entire careers measuring, analysing and investigating the REAL climate know these so called modelling climate scientists with their super-dooper computers and software are not climate scientists. They are mathematical modellers, peddling their shiny graphics and beautiful smooth curves in their graphs of doom, akin to the explorers waving beads to the native Indians to distract them from the main game, namely total control of their land!

When you are ill, do you go to the doctors, talk to a computer terminal and get a computer print out, OR to see an experienced practitioner of medicine, who actually has seen illness and knows how to fix you?

The IPCC and those from the UN and its backers have said the planet is ill and the mathematical modellers have said, I can give you lots of powerful graphics to tell you why, based on a still unproven theory. Why do we listen, because the media tells us so, day in, day out and promotes lies like the "science is settled" and their is "97% consensus". AND, after 3 decades of pro global warming propaganda, no parent dare question their "how-dare-you?" kids.

Maybe the only person on the planet today (who has been acquitted from impeachment charges) who can stop this nonsense is US President Donald Trump. He has already pulled out of the Paris 'so-called' agreement, released the constraints on the US energy industry, and exposed the USEPA.

I hear the screams and moans from the Democrats/CNN/BBC/ABC that Trump will now be untouchable and out of control. Well that is where the Global Warmers have been for decades.

Maybe this untouchable US President is the only person with the 'circular spheres' big enough to take on them on!

That would be so cool! Then we could focus on REAL issues like air/water/ocean pollution, population, sanitation for the poor, safe drinking water, recycling, deforestation, land degradation, erosion...…..

Mr O, C'mon, enough of the childish boring repetitious tantrums.
We all know about your five points.
What YOU don't want to know is, that they don't matter.
They are not relevant or important enough to be used as reasons for GW or CC.
Just accept that LEGO's very informative and clear explanation of the current hoax is correct.
Instead of refuting this fact we should all be looking into WHY, we are being attacked with this mis-leading lie.
We are slowly accepting that there might be a slight increase in over-all global temp, but this is a phenomena that is and always ha been out of humanity's control.
Whoever is behind this huge con job has used only half the story to exaggerate the real situation, that we have caused what is a naturally occurring event and it is cyclic.
So give up on the tantrums and use your time to uncover who the scum-bags behind this BS are.
I'll give you a head start.
Try starting with the Bilderberg Group, or look up the "One World Order".
If you can find it, I tried looking for it again, but I think it's been removed, but it was the speech given by the head Rabbi at an international Rabbi convention some time ago.
It is THE most damning document, exposing these sick bastards to the point they will be vilified forever if their plans are carried out and the fact that finally there is evidence of their evil intentions.

ALTRAV,

Soot 'Beam up me Scotty' Morrison does not know:

1. That the burning of fossil fuels like coal, oil and gas will create CO2.

2. That CO2 when trapped in the atmosphere will produce the greenhouse effect.

3. What the greenhouse effect is.

4. That the greenhouse effect will cause heat to be trapped and stored in the atmosphere.

5. That the greenhouse effect exists.

Please take your medication Mr O

Alison Jane does not know:

1. That the burning of fossil fuels like coal, oil and gas will create CO2.

2. That CO2 when trapped in the atmosphere will produce the greenhouse effect.

3. What the greenhouse effect is.

4. That the greenhouse effect will cause heat to be trapped and stored in the atmosphere.

5. That the greenhouse effect exists.

Alison, don't put too much time or thought into what Mr O has to say.
He has been warned so many times that he has stretched our patience and our intellect to the limit.
He thinks that repeating the same thing over and over like a broken record, will suddenly make it true.
Maybe to someone like him, because that's probably why he does it, but not everyone else.
Anyway, I might suggest not responding to him or just putting out a broadcast response which gives you the opportunity to say what YOU want to say without having to suffer through his annoying, ramblings.

Unsurprisingly, it turns out that Mr O himself does not know, the very stuff he has been saying that others don't know about.

Let's see; Burning of fossil fuel will create CO2. Old news!
The CO2 trapped in the atmosphere will produce the greenhouse effect.
NO, we need much more CO2 than we can squeeze out to make any real contribution to greenhouse effect. What we are doing is not worth even mentioning let alone measuring, in the greater scheme of things, so again, WRONG!
Suggesting anyone doesn't know what greenhouse is by now, only shows how stupid the questioner is. So again FAIL!
I think we have already answered this one that we know if enough CO2 trapped will trend to a warmer more humid climate. This is a GOOD thing, but unfortunately we do not produce enough to make it worthwhile to even mention it.
We already know there is such a thing as greenhouse. There is just not enough, nor is there likely to be enough, any time soon to be talking about it and certainly not to do ANYTHING about it!

Climate Change 1967

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rznY8Op5jFM

climate change February 2020, its all wet, two months ahead of the BoM climate models.. Whoops!

Mr Opinion does not know.

1. The earth warms and cools in regular, repeating, 1000 year cycles.

2. The last warming period was 1000 years ago.

3. This present warming period just happens to have coincided with the industrialisation of the human race.

4. Obviously, anthropogenic CO2 had nothing to do with hundreds of other previous, cyclical, warming periods.

5. 570 million years of global temperatures shows no direct causal link to known atmospheric CO2 levels.

http://www.researchgate.net/figure/Global-Temperature-and-CO2-levels-over-600-million-years-Source-MacRae-2008_fig1_280548391

Is the increasing senselessness of the pseudo intellectuals caused by GW ?

To individual.

No, the increasing senselessness of the pseudo-intellectual left is not caused by HIGW. It is caused by their compulsive psychological need to think that their particular caste of diplomaed yuppies are superior people than everybody else in society. Since many of them work for the public service, there is also the conviction that their particular government departments can solve every human problem if only the "rich" and those damned taxpayers would pony up a lot more money to fund their ideas. That is why Socialism, which any person who has a triple digit IQ knows is poison, is so attractive to young middle class yuppies.

Central to their self image as a class apart from the Great Unwashed, and the crass business and establishment classes, they adopt contrary views on everything that is considered mainstream. There may only be two sexes, but these goofs can present all sorts of ridiculous reasons to "prove" that there are 47, which they think displays how smart they are.

HIGW is becoming just another crazy cause wholeheartedly embraced by the yuppies in which they can virtue signal and pretend that they are the Saviours of the World. Their particular enlightened class are saving us Great Unwashed and the business and mercantile people from our own supposed stupidity. Because they are the far seeing ones who know that our classes are the ones destroying the planet.

It is not that they are unintelligent, they have the capacity to academically excel. But their compulsive need to think that they are morally superior and smarter than everybody else in society causes then to have extreme tunnel vision. It is similar to the hubris exhibited by many western military leaders in the 19th century. These leaders convinced themselves that they were so smart and their soldiers so well armed that they could never lose a battle against poorly armed barbarians. But they were often defeated by illiterate tribesmen or by Boer farmers, who were led by men who had never went to a staff college, but who knew how to fight an arrogant and overconfident enemy.

LEGO, good piece, well done, nothing like the satisfaction of calling a spade, a spade.

LEGO,

Actually you don't do too bad for someone who has never had an education worthwhile talking about.

Same goes for ALTRAV.

One can always tell AGW/CC denialists: they are the ones with their heads buried in the sand.

BTW For anyone not exactly sure what being a denialist actually means then here is a good definition of a denialist:

A person who refuses to admit the truth of a concept or proposition that is supported by the majority of scientific or historical evidence.

NB the words 'a concept or proposition that is supported by the majority of scientific or historical evidence.' Because that is exactly what the denialists on The Forum OLO are actually doing. And the arguments of denialists are not based on evidence supported by the majority of scientists and scholars.

Mr O, thanks for your words of encouragement.
Now as for the issue of scientific or historical evidence, both have been, and continue to be debunked as we speak.
You have twisted the facts as usual.
The denialists are not arguing against it getting warmer, they argue against the fact that we are responsible for it.
You see the bastards linked the two together to scare the sh!t out of people so they fork out money to save themselves.
Had those responsible for the scam said, it's getting warmer because we are going through a warming phase, no one would have paid any attention, and there was no money to be made from that truth.
But attach the words, "because we are causing it", and hey presto we have panic and the plebs and un-informed fell for it hook line and sinker.
So stop saying the deniers don't agree that it MIGHT be getting warmer, because down the line it will start cooling off again.
The fact we are here right now is purely a coincidence that these mongrels used to aid their con.
So let's not have any more misrepresentations about the deniers, I have cleared that up for you, once and for all.

Mr O, it appears you are suffering from climate change hysteria.

If you are interested in a possible cure, you could start with Lehr and Harris’ OLO posting, ‘Mathematical modelling illusions’, https://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=20114

the first 4 paras of which are reproduced below:

“For the past three decades, human-caused global warming alarmists have tried to frighten the public with stories of doom and gloom. They tell us that the end of the world as we know it is nigh as a result of carbon dioxide emitted into the air by the burning of fossil fuels.

They are exercising precisely what journalist H. L. Mencken, the sage of Baltimore, described early in the past century: "the whole point of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be lead to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary."

The human-caused climate change scare may well be the best hobgoblin ever conceived. It has half the world clamoring to be led to safety from a threat for which there is not a shred of meaningful physical evidence. Many of the statements issued to support these fear-mongering claims are presented in the U.S. Fourth National Climate Assessment, a 1,656-page report released in late November. But none of their claims have any basis in real world observations.

What they do have are mathematical equations considered to be models of the Earth's climate. It is important to properly understand these models since they are the only basis for the climate scare.”

Raycom,

I am an environmental sociologist and my views are formed from my research into what scientists and scholars have to say.

ALTRAV,

I have never said that you AGW/CC denialists do not believe that the planet is getting warmer.

What I have said is that you denialists refuse to admit the truth of the concept or proposition that is supported by the majority of scientific or historical evidence that the burning of fossil fuels over the past 240 years is the cause of the global warming that is producing the climate change as we know it in our era.

You denialists put the blame on things like sunspots, volcanic eruptions and Milankovitch cycles because you know we have no control over these forces, with the intention of making people think it is useless to reduce or even eliminate the burning of fossil fuels.

Mr O the only thing you said of worth and correctness is your last paragraph, especially the bit about "it is useless to reduce or even eliminate the burning of fossil fuels".
If you are even half as smart as you think you are, you have come across enough evidence to bury you, telling us that we have done NOTHING to the planet.
It's variable just like it has been for millennia.
So stop finding articles written by crack-pots like yourself, just to try to impress.
We're NOT impressed.

Mr.O, Don't waste your time arguing with this mob, they are not worth your time, or mine either.

David

VKAU33, 'et tu', what is the matter with you lot.
We are pretty sure the planet is going through a warming phase.
It is pretty conclusive that we are too insignificant to have done anything of consequence towards this accusation.
CO2 is a good gas, we don't know how it will affect the earth in terms of or relative to the amounts, but over-all it's a good gas, and for many years we have needed more of it to help re-vegetate otherwise baron lands that centuries ago were green and had plentiful vegetation.
The part we have been conned with is tying the climate change to fossil fuels.
A complete and utter mis-leading comment, and of course un-informed plebs like yourselves took it in hook line and sinker.
Get your head around it, it's A CON.
Just take a look at these for starters.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVc-Y-mJ_uY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewJ6TI8ccAw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZdm-w6FmHo

It's worth a look if you are serious about the truth.

That's right VKU3AAU, don't engage with us sceptics, because you know we are winning the argument. Better to just stay within your alarmist bubble where your lot can reinforce your incorrect notions about global warming, and keep clear of having to confront opposing views, to which you are unable to reply to.

Mr O lives in a academic world called "Environmental sociology" where he studies scientists at play. Who pays for an environmental sociology report? Does ebay sell them? And we thought the ABC was trapped in the Canberra bubble!

Rememeber science is not a consensus arena, but today it has become an arena to make a very comfortable living. Real climate scientists who actually measure, analyse and study the real world know that if you want grant money, you go AGW,... and boy what a rich, 5-star gravy train they have created. Real science don't aspire to 5-star travel, they are happy to travel cattle class with the rest of humanity.

When it comes down to it, this AGW gravy train is not about science. Its about money, power and politics.

Doomsday warnings from the AGW storm troopers keep the population (particularly children) in fear.
Global industry loves the high profits from overpriced, subsidized renewables.
Politicians love taxes, and carbon taxation is the most lucrative tax of all, better than income tax, its a tax on living and breathing (a gold plated tax).

This morning's ABC breakfast crews declare there is disaster everywhere in Australia, namely: Drought, Fire, Flooding and even warnings that we might face locust swarms like East Africa!!

What next an invasion from Darwin led by giant, mutated crocadiles?

Dear Alison Jane,

The fossil fuel lobby pump literally hundreds of millions of dollars around the globe into disinformation campaigns.

Here is Australia's version.

"Australia’s richest person, mining magnate Gina Rinehart, has been revealed as a key funder of the right wing think tank the Institute of Public Affairs (IPA) — a major pusher of climate science denial. Rinehart’s company, Hancock Prospecting Proprietary Ltd (HPPL), donated $2.3 million to the IPA in 2016 and $2.2 million in 2017, according to disclosures made to the New South Wales Supreme Court."
http://www.desmogblog.com/2018/07/17/billionaire-mining-magnate-gina-rinehart-revealed-key-donor-australian-climate-science-denial-promoter-institute

That is the true gravy train. Stop drinking the cool-aid. The cult of denialism is manufactured by very wealthy people, time to open your eyes.

steel redux. Wow, so some donors give money to climate deniers that's just not cricket, eh what! So how much do the unions give to left wing think tanks… of course no one knows as they use bags of used notes in shopping bags for security reasons!!

The AGW gravy train is in fact a gravy cruise boat... Bigger, slower, and you can bury your snout into the 24hr buffet as many times as you like.

Billions are given in Grants (paid for by taxpayers) to fund AGW movement research, not just on the climate models, but to all the hangers-on who what to study impacts that have not occurred in every social, environmental, health, industry, natural resource, agriculture etc.....human activity. I bet even environmental sociologists can get grants on AGW.

How much in Grants is given to anyone who dares ask are these model predictions valid. Haven't heard of many.

AND THEN there are all the leftwing philanthropists out there. George Soris has given about $20bilion over the last few years, The Kennedy and Getty kids have their "Global Philanthropy Group". And who funds Extinction Rebellion?, imagine their phone bills for all those secret texts!

While they like to claim their causes are driven and funded from their foot soldiers, the lead activists always have money people behind them. The AGW is well funded by philanthropists, unions and the humble and "deplorable" tax payer funded Grant Schemes.

Alison Jane,

What is you background?

Mr.O. She certainly didn't study science.
David

Alison Jane has her head screwed on whereas her opponents are merely screwed in their heads !

Trouble is somebody forgot to tighten the screws.
David

If any of the AGW/CCCers be going to the NCE Summit, can they do an article on OLO to tell us how wonderfully inciteful is was for them and enlighten us?

Dear Alison Jane,

Gina's net worth is 50% higher than Soros.

Clive Palmer pumped 60 million into our last election to ensure Adani wasn't compromised thus impacting his Waratah Coal interests.

These people are not scientist and they do not have your best interest at heart. You are being lied to, constantly deceived and fed talking points all to protect the interests of very wealthy people.

I know it is highly unlikely you will ever concede this but it needs to be stated none the less.

Just want to let you know I do feel sorry for you.

Ok so steel redux is going, any one else?

SteeleRedux,

Of course, why didn't I see it straightaway! It was Adani who bankrolled Clive Palmer at the 2019 federal election! It all makes sense.

Turning Clive Palmer votes into LNP preferences was Adani's way of stopping Labor from winning the Queensland seats that would have got it into government.

Smart thinking Adani. You really pulled the wool over the eyes of the Australian voter. As well as proving to yourselves how easy it is to fool those dumb Australians. Smart!

Mr O, reducing CO2 will do very little to effect any 'REAL' change to GW or CC,
In case you have forgotten, the planet warming is a natural part of the planet's life.
It has been confirmed that us being here at this time, is only a coincidence.
It is as simple as that.
The evidence is growing, just accept the truth, not the facts.

ALTRAV. Except that it is also being added to by all man made crap that we are also putting into the biosphere.
That is the truth.
David

Dear Alison Jane,

I am quite positive you would get more out of attending. Have you at least given it some thought?

Alison Jane,

What is you background?

VK3AUU, all this 'crap' you so believe is going into the atmosphere, actually descends back to earth causing none of the harm you or any other alarmist wants us to believe.
Anything heavier than air, if it was rising in it's hot state, eventually cools as it rises and falls back to earth.
This is the TRUTH, it is obvious in many industries.
Some of it is visible and called laughingly 'acid rain', depending on it's the caustic level, but ALWAYS comes back to earth, and in the main it is carbon or some form of carbon.
Ultimately it is no more a threat than a dust storm.
It is in dust form and it covers everything in it's path, and when it has passed you get the hose and hose down whatever is covered in this dust.
This is exactly the same misleading BS your mob have been putting out showing pics of a nuclear plants 'cooling' towers.
That 'crap' you are so quick to pick on coming out of the cooling towers is, STEAM, yes steam.
So this current argument is in the same category, so cut it with the scare mongering and lie's, if you are un-aware of the truth, just ask.
Too proud?
OK, suite yourself, but at least bulk up on the true facts before you come back spewing mis-information.

Oh my goodness, what a waste to time, energy and resources that NCE Summitt was. Shame none of the AGW rs who promote their commitment here on OLO bothered to absorb its wealth of information!

I was working on my 40 year old petrol car, my partners 2012 super efficient diesel (with maximum emissions technology) and laying some tiles today.

So I listened to the live feed... much more entertaining than the Saturday RN ABC.

What a load of twaddle. I have heard better in presentations from 12 year students.

So what was the outcome:-

1. a 14 year old boy with his mate from 4 Melbourne schools and their " "Greta-like affirmation"
2. 100 council reps saying they would lead the way on climate agenda!
3. two very much past it pollies producing a 15-minute dialogue of utopian demands.

If this is the start of a revolution, it must be on a very, slow burn fuse. No quite the rapid speed they said they were going to ignite!

Interesting that none of the "stars" even turned up for the closing action plan plenary session where the commitments, plans and declarations were made... I WONDER WHY??

Next time they need to have big funding behind them!

Alison Jane,

As a sociologist I can tell that you are a deeply religious person and that your religious conviction determines that you do not accept the proposition which is based on the majority of scientific and scholarly evidence that humankind is responsible for global warming.

So did you watch this national climate emergency summit?

Alison Jane,

Do you pray to God each night for better weather or do you just accept what he gives you?

No.

Did you watch that National Climate Emergency summit? I listened to it while working.. was not impressed? Were you?

Alison Jane,

What you are hearing is the voices of the multitude who no longer believe that God is controlling their destinies. Unlike you they do not look to God for answers; they look for rational scientific explanations of the world.

We don't need promises, we need concrete actions that are actually going to reduce CO2 emissions and produce affordable power. The way the anti coal lobby are carrying on, the operators of the current coal power stations will have gone broke and closed down before an alternative source of energy can be up and running and then where will we all be.
David

Mr O, let me enlighten you.
There is no more rational explanations of the world coming from scientists than there is from God.
It has now been confirmed over and over that this whole thing was typical of how scams are worded.
Let's say the planet is warming, because this is a natural event, but then to get traction for the scam to work, you have to scare people with a "white lie".
So they say, the planet is warming because mankind has caused it by burning fossil fuels.
Now if I wanted to introduce a new technology, which by-the-way had never been tested en masse, so I would seek funding from the govt to develop these yet untested theoretical concepts, I would contrive a way to profit and profit well, when you consider the plebs have all gone ducking for cover and crying out, "give em what they want, at any cost, we don't want to die".
And so our fate is sealed.
Between the scum-bag con-men and the ignorant public, we, the more aware of us, have to suffer through another rip-off by these bastards.
So Mr O, if you can't answer the simplest of non-technical questions, how do you expect to be taken seriously on technical issues.
I'm afraid you have long ago sealed YOUR fate as a somewhat obstreperous ignoramus, who seeks attention.
Well your wish has come true, you can now move on from OLO as your comments have always been those of dissent so from now on you will be viewed with an air of irrelevance and even moot.

VK3AUU, NO WE DON'T NEED ACTION!
We need scared little wall flowers like you to cut back with the panic rhetoric.
How many times do we have to say it, we are warming to the fact that the planet just might be warming, but NOT because of anything we have done or are doing.
Why is it so hard for you little princesses to understand that the world is full of evil, and they are all at the top of the triangle, hiding behind stupid people who will do anything for money.
You will NEVER get to them LEGALLY, but you can get to them.
Now if these scum-bags were ERADICATED every time they tried to con the public, we would live a much more wholesome and relaxed life, beginning with the banks, as this is where the problems all begin.
So before you get on your soap box again do some research and some digging, you will at least be better informed if nothing else.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewJ6TI8ccAw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZdm-w6FmHo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMF9aMI-9ek

Some light viewing.

ALTRAV,

As a sociologist I understand how deeply religious people like you feel when the irreligious challenge the omnipotence of God.

For you God moves the planets, makes the sunspots, and causes volcanoes to erupt. For you everything is caused by God - not by humankind. It is anathema for humankind to play a role in reshaping a world that was created by God.

So for you it is only God who can cause the global warming that the AGW proponents claim to be caused by humankind burning fossil fuels. So to you and the other AGW/CC denialists the proponents of AGW are heretics and sinners for saying that humankind can do the things that only God can do - especially making the planet hotter!

Mr O, Ha Ha, you really don't know me, or have mis-read the tea leaves in you cuppa this morning.
Mate, hate to disappoint, but I could give no more a toss about God as I could about anyone trying to stitch me up.
I no sooner believe in God than I do that WE are the cause of GW or CC.
Other commentors here on OLO are well aware of my faith.
I have said it a million times, I believe in ME!
Religion was the greatest con of all.
All religion has done is exposed the weaker of humanity, in that they are incapable or unable to function by their own will and ability, and they feel the need to rely on a crutch to tell them what to do and how to live their lives.
And look how that's turned out.
I mean really; The meek shall inherit the earth?
Really?
All the meek are doing is letting the scum-bags inherit and rule the earth.
So don't you dare lecture me about ANYTHING, until you have broadened your so called field of expertise, you fall well short of making any meaningful contributions to this forum.
At some stage you have to use your own powers of assessment and ability to reason to see that this whole thing is a scam.
Sure, it's a BIG scam, but they're the only ones that make big money, and anyway I don't believe this is about money, it appears more like another test case to study peoples reactions to certain situations, but always with a view to manipulating the public.
All I can say is look into the elite and their plans for a "One world order".

Alison Jane, re your listening to the NCES proceedings, did the proposed future action plan for Australia (that this 2-day love-in was supposed to develop) contain anything new that might be useful, or was it just regurgitation of the usual fanciful thinking?

Pure naïve twaddle. I think the "stars" were embarrassed and hence left the 'finale' declaration to two past it politicians and the" wonderous Ms Caro to carry the can!