While I agree drag queens reading to young kids seems a tad inappropriate when they could have created no controversy by simply dressing as their gender representation. For some kids, this cross-dressing would be unnecessarily confusing!

That said this cannot be used as a segway to persecute homosexuals and demand we the marjority believe that homosexuality is not a normal human aberation! For a proven fact there are gay genes.

We used to persecute left handed folk for defying normal right handed behaviour, in our combined ignorance.

In the final analysis, this controveresy was not caused by the cross dressers but the control freak, ignorange personified, who sort to impose their views on the rest of us via this vehicle and to hell with any harm done to innocent and trusting kids!
Alan B.

> Since when were drag queens for kids?
I've long understood the answer to be: since Auntie Jack.
But it was before my time, so I could be wrong.

What sort of creeps would expose young children to a drag queen? I have no problem with such entertainment for adults, but it's not for kids. And, naturally in this over-the-top era, I'm not surprised that the 'villains' are the young conservative protesters, not not the weirdo Left librarians and associated wreckers of society who want to warp kids' minds. And, whether or not the protesters were tactful, as the author asks, how tactful is unleashing a drag queen on children?

And what about the media's rush to announce the suicide of a protester? See what happens when you defy Left elites?

People can be what they want to be and not have narrow minded interfering do gooders intruding.
Just don`t expect me, or anyone else, to necessarily want to do the same.

Auntie Jack.
Aidan,
That was one of the most un-humourus, un-funny programmes in the history of TV. Count yourself lucky not to have been exposed to it !
As for Drag Queens for kids ? I'd like to see that banned for the simple reason that kids should not be influenced by alternative social behaviour. If kids turn out to be naturally inclined in later age then well, nothing is to be done or said about but I draw a definite line at conditioning at an early age !
What reaction would there be if we normal people would have readings to kids conditioning them to be anti-gay, anti drag ?

I told you all about Drag Queen Story Time a year or so back.

Of course the protestors are going to be attacked for protesting.
They don't have a right to protest anything that goes against the already established UN Sustainable Development Goals that drive the social narrative.

Their protest is none and void;
And they're automatically heretics because they don't believe equality for LGBTI.
- You can't criticise equality for LGBTI -

This is the world we now live in.

The Author writes;

“Disclaimer: I began writing this before news of Wilson Gavin's tragic death was made public. As the story was still developing when I submitted this article for publication, I have not commented on it and wish to extend my deepest condolences to Wilson Gavin’s family and friends. Instead this article is about the event which sparked the outrage and the considerations around the ensuing controversy.”

I think this reflection from Fr Rod of the Anglican Parish of Gosford is timely.

Quote

Wilson Gavin’s untimely death is a tragedy beyond description.

Our hearts go out to his family and friends in their distress at this time of devastation.

As always in such circumstance we can never fully know what was in Wilson’s mind as the quality of consciousness that causes us to cling to live, especially in times of distress, began to slip from his grip. However, we do know that this process is rarely the result of one incident, but rather the culmination of months or even years of tearing away at the human psyche.

It is true that Wilson and his friends had been the subject of harsh, if not undeserved criticism, following their invasion of a library in Brisbane in order to protest against an event where two drag queens were reading children’s books. I can attest from my own experience that relentless criticism on social media can deeply wound the soul, even directing one’s thinking in self-destructive directions.

Sadly, Wilson belonged to a demographic where suicide is all too common. He was gay. The incidence of self-harm among the LGBTIQA community is significantly higher than in the wider society. This is due, in no small part, to the diminishing of one’s soul caused by bullying, exclusion, otherising and a thousand and one other things that are inflicted upon members of society who don’t quite fit the mould that the domination system has created.

Cont...

Cont...

We can only imagine how hard Wilson had tried to fit into that mould, even to the extent of arguing against his own human rights by opposing Marriage Equality. What subtle, and not-so-subtle messaging had he needed to process about his very essence. How many jokes made at his own expense had he felt the need to laugh at, while dying inside just a little more each time. One can assume that among the young conservatives of Brisbane there are also a good number of young conservative Christians. I wonder how many times he had been told that he was “a sinner’ or that he should “pray away the gay”.

Yesterday I asked the question “Do we really want to live in a world run by these people? That would be a cruel world, without compassion, love or hope. That would be a world dominated by power, abuse and manipulation. May we choose love, grace and inclusion.” Sadly, it turns out Wilson didn’t want to live in that world either.

As I view the footage from the library and see Wilson gazing into the eyes of the drag queen, I can’t help wondering what he is really seeing. Was it a mirror into which he is staring? We so often vilify what we have come to most despise within ourselves. Could it have been years of splintered existence brought about by society’s denial of his soul essence, which in part is our sexuality, that led to him losing the fervent but tenuous grip we all have on life?

We will never know for sure. But what I do know is that the pathway to the tragedy that has now changed the lives of Wilson’s family forever did not begin yesterday. It began years ago with a diminishing word uttered by one broken human soul to another, and then more of the same, again and again and again.

Rest in peace Wilson Gavin.

We as a society seek your forgiveness.

Fr Rod

Lifeline 131 114
Beyond blue 1300 22 4636

End quote

Alan B.

"this controveresy (sic) was not caused by the cross dressers but the control freak, ignorange (sic) personified, who sort to impose their views on the rest of us"

This is a somewhat intolerant and simplistic statement, considering the complexity of this situation.

As for "For a proven fact there are gay genes"

Sorry: 'No ‘gay gene’: Massive study homes in on genetic basis of human sexuality'

http://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-02585-6

Steele,

He was gay. And he was bullied.

Bullying works in the most dreadful ways.

There's a lesson for all of us on OLO.

Joe

Would people still be bullied for being gay if they didn't flaunt their sexual orientation ?

From the children's perspective, they were entertained by two people wearing strange/funny clothing. What they are likely to remember is the contents of the stories rather than their presenters.

Children would not understand the meaning of "drag queens" anyway unless the significant adults in their lives impress it on them and teach them about gender/sex with emphasis on it being "important".

Ideally, children should not even learn about gender and sexuality, other than in the context of high-school biology. Had adults, regardless of their personal orientation, whatever that may be, not been tempted to impress on children their own sense of assigning importance to gender and sexuality, then this malaise would stop being passed down through the generations.

Sadly, the demonstration suggested to the children that something important is occurring with regards to the identity of their entertainers, thus unnecessarily arousing their curiosity as for what that might be.

The abc would bully you if you are one of the 4 or 5 million who believe marriage is between a man and woman.

"He was gay. And he was bullied."

He was bullied by other gay people
Gay people are bullies

runner,
>The abc would bully you if you are one of the 4 or 5 million who believe marriage is between a man and woman.
How do you figure that? I voted NO and the ABC has never bullied me!

It looks to me like your hatred for the ABC is causing you to spread lies about it. I urge you to return to the truth.

'>The abc would bully you if you are one of the 4 or 5 million who believe marriage is between a man and woman.
How do you figure that? I voted NO and the ABC has never bullied me!''

and when did you appear on Q&A or the Drum defending marriage between man and woman Aiden. Or are you making up lies?

Sorry to hear about this young conservative gay man Wilson Gavin committing suicide. I do not understand how conservative gays reconcile their sexuality with conservatism. When conservatism opposes everything they are in life.

There is no harm in a couple of trannies reading story books off the shelf at the local library, we have to be inclusive, then maybe the young bloke would still be alive today. I have been at my local library and seen people with their faces painted dressed up reading books to children.

A YouTube from Johnny Valkyrie

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVH6d86Be7M

So no harm in transvestites reading to little children, quite normal? Like Priests looking after little children and us all affording the priests respect blah, blah, blah!
Seems like we are still not watching our kids enough or looking after them when we afford another creepy group unfettered access. Being a total atheist I have never trusted priests with their unnatural lifestyle but the same goes for people who make themselves a caricature of a sex they are not.
Creepy people and you woke lot will accept no blame when it goes wrong but will try and suppress and hide the results.

Aan Sauders and his team of highly credentialed geneticists have found two gay genes and three more probable, in peer-reviewed research!

As a boy, I was regularly read to by a man in a frock, a priest. The kilt is a frock like article of clothing and the greek royal guard's tradition apparel is also like a dress.

Further many races traditional dress is the same for both sexes! And nobody is going off their brains by women wearing suits or trousers!! And none would object if the readers were ladies in pants suits!

Moreover, we've had cross-dresses since time immemorial Many happily married men without a gay bone in their bodies.

That said, I'd rather this unusual behaviour was kept out of the classroom and public libraries, where very young children were read to.

Sorry, it had to include the suicide of aa young man probably tortured by the conflict between his quasi-religious values and his emerging gender bias?
Alan B.

Correction: Aan Saunders should be read as Alan Saunders.
Alan B

I hope everyone on minimum wage joins DDDD. IIII people can't vote. Which means it'll be easier to get the Greens and Labor Parties in power.

Not only should children be read stories about 'Jack and Jill' they should be taught at an early age about 'Jack and Jim' who go up the hill to pick out a nice dress for Jim to wear to the wedding, and 'Jill and Jane' who are doing much the same thing,as well as 'Jackie' who goes up the hill on his own, to do his own thing, all in a positive light. In this way we can bury much of the prejudice that still exists in society towards gay and transgender people.

Jesus wore a frock, and there is evidence he may have been homosexual as well.

"Like Priests looking after little children" Unfortunately JBowyer good old Catholic priest Father Fookemup was doing a bit more than reading the little children bed time stories, he was also climbing into the bed with the little children and having his perverted way with them, all on a Saturday night, before he could deliver his Sunday sermon on the moral depravity of gay and transgender people, not acceptable! Was this endorsed by past Popes, we do not know.

My point Paul was priests got to little children because so many people afforded priests respect. This protected their disgusting activities and those same people defended the priests.
You dills afford a similar respect and admiration to crazy men who caricature women and when it goes wrong you will of course blame conservative people.
The crushing irony will be when any criticism of these cross dressers will be punishable under law. Worse than priests? Far, far, worse, mark my words.

When I went to school we were taught about stranger danger and to not accept lifts from strangers. Now it seems the "strangers" have made it into the classroom. Of course back then education was for the childrens benefit. Now, plainly, it's for political benefit of whatever the latest trendy cause is. In this case an oddity acronym group hoping the future will see them feeling less odd. Fools hope that one and a loss of precious education time for the kids.
Whatever, it's not for the kids benefit so it shouldn't be happening.

My comment was a little tongue in cheek, the Jack and Jim stuff. I lampoon this bunch of conservatives who seem to me, sit around like the 'Ghost Busters' waiting for the call; "TRANNIES at the library, ACTION STATIONS!"

Some of our best friends are gay, in fact we attended one couples wedding in NZ before it was legal in Australia. The biggest problem for some straight folks is they are uncomfortable in the company of gay people. I recall attending a gay friends birthday party, he introduced me to another gay friend of his, who planted a big kiss on my cheek. My friend apologised for what he perceived as an indiscretion by his friend "sorry, Paul, xxxx Paul's not gay", then the friend starts apologising. I simple said "Fellas, more that 75% of the worlds male population kiss other males,what's to it." I press noses and foreheads, and stare into each others eyes (hongi), with Maori men when its appropriate to do so. I think a lot of Europeans feel discomfort with things like that, a bit of a hang over of Protestant prudishness.

BTW; how do you feel with kissing the dead body of people you don't know all that well.

My point is, its all cultural and little of anything else.

Kiss dead bodies? Oh sorry you were boasting about how "Woke" you are Paul, well done you. I love some sanctimonious prig like you lecturing inferior conservatives like myself about the wide world. We of course know nothing in your eyes. I do know that I think young children should be kept away from old blokes dressing up as women but in a garish and creepy way. I do not want these strange people near children anymore than any cleric. The old adage stands "Lie down with dogs, get fleas".
Lets let our children be educated without all the sleazy modern perverts although you should look up PIE. 1970's paedophile group very influential in left wing groups and UK Labour that had a clear agenda of procuring children for themselves. Heavily protected by left wing lawyers and MSM but all ended badly. Stay away from them Paulie they are nothing but trouble.

JBowyer, I would not dream of lecturing a self rightest puritan such as yourself, and certainly not on a subject of morality. This is a forum for discussion, do I need to apologise to you for posting as I have. You might believe the universe revolves around your good self, but unfortunately it doesn't, and I wasn't even thinking of you when I posted the above. So do the honourable thing, and......

Paul I will do the honourable thing and forgive you for being the way you are and accept your apology for inflicting your woke, left wing prognostications on other posters.
Your welcome it's the way I am, it's what I do! Lol.

Dear Paul,

«in fact we attended one couples wedding in NZ before it was legal in Australia.»

Wow, you must be a centenarian or older if you lived at such times when homosexual weddings were illegal in Australia:
even when the consummation of such marriages was still illegal in Australia, there was no law against the weddings as such.
Now too, while bestiality is still illegal, no law prohibits a priest or a friend from marrying you with two goats, a camel and a broom.

No legislation was required to render "legal" that which was not illegal to begin with! While I have nothing against homosexual relationships and marriages, I voted "No" because such legislation, as worded by the plebiscite, would constitute an assault on logic and intellect.

Anyway, regarding Jack and Jim, nothing is new as per what two boys can do together: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngd3zohpvFM - very educational, provided children read this story to the very end.

Yuyutsu, why did you just compare animal rape with consensual sex between adults?

Is it because you have no arguments, so you use red herrings instead?

Dear AyameTan,

I was not writing about sex, but about marriage: may I remind you that sexual relations are not mandatory within a marriage?

Why, there is no reason to prevent a child from marrying an animal, nor to the best of my knowledge is there any law against it.
Given that no law prohibits this practice, suppose a new plebiscite asked me whether "the law should be changed to legalise marriage between children and animals", then "No" would be the only rational response.

As for "arguments", if I am to have any then I must first have a cause to argue for or against, yet I have none as far as this thread is concerned.

"accept your apology for inflicting your woke, left wing prognostications on other posters."

A big responsibility you have there JBowyer, (accepting apologies on behalf of other conservatives) was that decided at a 'Conclave of Conservative Forum Posters' or some such thing, that you would be the anointed one to accept apologies on behalf of all. Could it be you are simply trumped up, a self appointed leader of the pack?

Societies norms change over time, what was not acceptable in the past when intolerant conservative bigots held sway, are replaced with more inclusive attitudes. Just like spats and straw hats went by the way, so has much of the stodgy conservative attitudes of yesteryear gone by the way.

Yuyutsu, trying to be a bit of a smarty with that comment; "you must be a centenarian or older" when you obviously know I'm not. Why don't you go marry your goat, its not illegal for two goats to marry in Australia is it?

Dear Paul,

«Societies norms change over time, what was not acceptable in the past when intolerant conservative bigots held sway, are replaced with more inclusive attitudes.»

While many societal changes are detrimental, the particular change that is being discussed here, of accepting and normalising different gender/sexual orientations (provided these orientations are genuine, not the result of peer-pressure, political activism, or a desire to show-off), is positive. Variability in sexual orientation is so natural that it ought to go almost unnoticed, deserving no importance.

The problem is that this change is not being carried out in a smooth manner, but is somewhat violent and causes collateral damage. One such damage, as presented in this thread, is of exposing children to sexuality: an alternative sexuality, but sexuality nevertheless. I am not naive to believe that children in Western culture were not exposed to sexuality beforehand, but this new exposure does not help to reduce and eventually eliminate all sexual exposure.

many societal changes are detrimental,
Yuyutsu,
The Whitlam effect is solid prove of that ! It's still haunting us 50 years on !

Armchair, would you complain if a KKK rally received a counter-protest?

"The Whitlam effect is solid prove of that ! It's still haunting us 50 years on !"
Care to explain Indy.

I am surprised that Catholic priests are allowed unsupervised into primary school playgrounds before, during and after school. Have witnessed this for myself, a few years back when the wife and I took our grandchildren to be dropped off at school. Had this old bloke been properly vetted, I think not. Where were the screaming conservative protesters that day, nowhere to be seen.

Hey AyameTan,

"Armchair, would you complain if a KKK rally received a counter-protest?"

No I don't see why I would, but I'm not exactly sure what you're implying.
I think protests are overrated, because they're a tool used in conducting regime changes.
I'd rather sit down and look at both sides of an argument on a basis of merit to find an acceptable way forward.
(That means, that I'd still look at if the white 'racist' nationalists had a legitimate basis of merit for their arguments in the same way I'd also look at the arguments for the other side)

What don't you tell us what you think instead of responding to what other commenters think?
You're supposed to be commenting in regards to 'Drag Queen Story Time / Rainbow Story Time' for kids in public libraries.
What do you think about this topic?

Also while I've got you here,
Should people who support Communism, and who wish to destroy the nation from the inside out by undermining everything that democracy and capitalism has built;
Should these people be entitled to vote if they don't believe in or support democracy and only vote to undermine all collective forces other than their own?

Also just out of curiosity, what country do you live in, and were you born there?

I can argue on a basis of merit why I think a mixture of socialism and capitalism is far better than either socialism or capitalism in their pure forms.
(And I've done so numerous times on the forum previously)

On a basis of merit why do you think Communism (Socialism at the barrel of a gun) is better than other forms of government?

OK, so why are you complaining about a pro-trans rally?

I think my position is quite clear. I'm pro-LGBTQ+. Why do you think I wrote a comment against your position?

I think communism is better than capitalism. Why do you rail against Communism but fail to understand socialism? Or social democracy?

I was born in the US, but I now live in Japan.

Communism is better than capitalism because sweatshops would be banned. Everyone would get a basic minimum of food, shelter, clothing and education.

Why should any 6-year-old work in a sweatshop?

Hey AyameTan,

OK first up, if you go here
http://onlineopinion.com.au/
You'll see it says 'Australia's e-journal of social and political debate'
What that means is that we're discussion things of relevance to Australia.
Since you're neither an Australian citizen or an Australian voter, then you're contribution whilst appreciated is not really all that important.
This incident occurred in my country to which I'm a citizen and voter.
- And not just in my country, but in my city.

Who are you to criticise me on issues involving my country when you don't even live here?

"OK, so why are you complaining about a pro-trans rally?"

There was no pro-trans rally.
It was an Anti-Rainbow Story Time rally, conducted by members of the Young Liberals (a political party in Australia) and I support their right to oppose it, though I'm not sure I support disruptions within the library itself. (not fair to other library users)

One of the 'Young liberals' who protested the Rainbow Story Time event was gay himself. He was bullied by gays who supported Rainbow Story Time, and as a result of the bullying from gays, he committed suicide.

If you had've read the article yourself, you might've seen the news story that formed part of the article.
Here's the link to that story.
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/politics/queensland/young-lnp-slammed-over-protest-video-shaming-drag-queens-20200112-p53qul.html
Try to pay attention.

"I think communism is better than capitalism. Why do you rail against Communism but fail to understand socialism? Or social democracy?"

I understand it well enough.

"Communism is better than capitalism because sweatshops would be banned. Everyone would get a basic minimum of food, shelter, clothing and education."

In Australia, we don't have sweatshops.
And everyone already gets a basic minimum of food, shelter, clothing and education.
Your arguments don't apply with any relevance to our country.

In Australia, we don't have sweatshops.
And everyone already gets a basic minimum of food, shelter, clothing and education.
Armchair Critic,
Are you sure ?

I'm an Australian citizen. I just don't live there anymore. And isn't what happens anywhere a concern to everyone? Would you have sat idly by if you knew what was going on in Poland in 1940? I wouldn't.

And why would a gay man join a right-wing, bigoted party? He was an idiot. I'm sorry he took his own life, but he made an idiotic decision.

Just like anyone who earns under half a million does if they vote for the LNP.

If you understand communism, please describe the difference between communism and capitalism to me.

Australia doesn't have sweatshops, but America does. Indonesia is particularly horrid. Why do you ignore everything outside Australia?

I guess you just sit and watch if your neighbour beats her children. Maybe you bring out some popcorn too.

describe the difference between communism and capitalism
AyameTan,
Communism is when stupid people are trying to be capitalists ! Capitalism is when stupid people are trying to be Communist !
Socialism is when when Public servants are of a greater number than blue collar workers.

Hey AyameTan,

"I'm an Australian citizen." Ok, fair enough, my apologies.

If you're an Australian citizen then you'd know our country is neither socialist or capitalist but a mixture of both, and that's the best.

We have public schools and private schools.
Public schools are a base level socialist platform for education. Whilst private schools are a capitalist platform for those who want and can afford a better quality service than the base level.

We have public hospitals and private hospitals.
Public hospitals are a base level socialist platform for healthcare.
Whilst private hospitals are a capitalist platform for those who want and can afford a better quality service than the base level.

We have public housing and private housing
Public housing is a base level socialist platform for housing.
Whist private housing is a capitalist platform for those who want and can afford a better quality service than the base level.

We have public income (welfare) and private income (employment or business)
Public income (welfare) is a base level socialist platform for income.
Whist private income (employment or business) is a capitalist platform for those who want a better life than living on welfare.

As part of the welfare system, you can even get grants and benefits to start your own business.

The base level socialist platforms ensure no is starving, no one is not clothed, no one goes without a standard level of healthcare and education.
The only part where our system fails, is that there's not enough public housing to go around.
(We have more people immigrating than public housing built)
And that there is not a socialist base level system of employment
(the job you have when you don't have a job) to pay for all these benefits.

"And isn't what happens anywhere a concern to everyone? Would you have sat idly by if you knew what was going on in Poland in 1940?"

No it's not, (and yes I'd have stood idly by, unless our own nation was attacked)

All it is (what happens anywhere a concern to everyone) is a gang mentality where other citizens of other nations think they can provide peer pressure to override what the citizens who live in a nation have decreed at the ballot box.

All it does is play into the hands of rich elites and beurecrats who themselves want to play people off against each other =to dictate the future of a nation rather than allow the citizens themselves to decide.
This is globalism.

"And why would a gay man join a right-wing, bigoted party"
How should I know?
I'd assume that maybe he's a gay man who opposes pushing the gay agenda onto kids, wouldn't that make logical sense?

"Just like anyone who earns under half a million does if they vote for the LNP."
Why would they want to vote for handouts and increased taxes of themselves?

"If you understand communism, please describe the difference between communism and capitalism to me."
Go read the 10 planks of The Communist Manifesto, and figure it out yourself, I've spent enough time responding atm.
Then go read this:
http://modernhistoryproject.org/mhp?Article=NoneDare

"Australia doesn't have sweatshops, but America does."
So what does America's domestic policies have to do with us?
Isn't this an issue for the American citizens who vote there?

"I guess you just sit and watch if your neighbour beats her children."
- Probably depends whether she's doing it in front on me or not, stop nitpicking.

Care to explain Indy.
Paul1405,
If you need to have the situation explained then you're either oblivious to the society you live in, you're too young to understand or you're a Public servant !

A cop out Indy, I am 66 years of age, proud to have voted for a Whitlam government that put an end, firstly to the murderous outrages of the warmongering conservative Liberal/Country party regimes. Secondly I am proud to have voted for a government that wanted to introduce social reforms to put and end to the bigoted, racism and inequality in Australia fostered by successive crap Coalition governments.

You say;

"many societal changes are detrimental, Yuyutsu, The Whitlam effect is solid prove of that! It's still haunting us 50 years on!"

Don't do a cop out, instead provide examples.

Is your wholehearted support for 'National Service' based on the fact you yourself would be totally immune from such service. I don't perceive any cheering from you when I bring up the subject of a 'Seniors National Service' to help cope with the $20 billion, and growing, aged pensioners suck out of the system each year. BTW what is your record on past 'National Service' what did you do when you had the opportunity?

Armchair:

It would depend on the mix of socialism and capitalism. The richest 10% already pay very little tax as a percentage of their wealth. But they're easily spotted and easily robbed on the street. Just saying.

An Armani suit sells for a lot, even on the second-hand market.

I'm not advocating theft, I'm just stating a fact.

You'd have stood idly by while Poland was attacked? Typical conservative. You only care about YOUR OWN civil rights. Fail.

Yet another reason why Al Qaeda is better than you. Their victims tend to die instantly. Unlike cancer patients.

What do you disagree with about the "gay agenda"? Equality? Tolerance? Acceptance?

And end to criminalization of consensual acts between consenting adults?

Handouts reduce crime. If no one had to beg for food, fewer people would rob convenience stores.

So you only care about your own country. I guess if your neighbor's house was on fire, you'd do nothing unless the flames spread to your house.

So if a killer decided to wipe out every other house on your block, you'd do nothing.

I hope your last sentence was sarcastic.

Anyway, I've devised the perfect plan.

XXXX right-wing voters and politicians.

SXXXX from right-wing voters and politicians.

Pay people to XXXX right-wing voters and politicians.

It's self-sustaining and unstoppable.

The end goal is to stop right-wing voters and politicians from voting.

I am 66 years of age,
Paul1405,
Make that 16, it goes better with your mentality. Nobody is that insipid at 66 apart from a bureaucrat !

Really, Individual? Do you really think the "old days" are the "good old days"?

Marital rape was legal until recently.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marital_rape#Australia

Indy, put up or shut up. Give examples of the so called "The Whitlam effect". I might be 66, but what I am not is a dotty old fool living in the past, sucking off society, down on everybody and everything. Now how old are you? Are you not sucking off the public teat through an Aged Pension. Why should you receive a Pension, and I don't due to asset levels, we own property and have cash investments, paid probably more tax that you ever have, and are still paying tax in retirement. Old farts like you who didn't provide for their retirement, pissed what ever you earned up against the wall, why should I support YOU until you cark it! Press gang the whole lot of you into a 'Seniors National Service'sounds are great idea to me. Then you can finally contribute, something you didn't adequately do in the past, otherwise you wouldn't be swinging off the public teat like you are now, and carrying on like a pork chop!

Dear Individual,

I have no clue what the "Whitlam effect" is.

I stand by my statement that many societal changes are detrimental, but my list of detrimental changes could be quite different than yours.

---

Dear AyameTan,

«I think communism is better than capitalism.»

And drowning could be "better" than being burned or crucified - why do we even need to choose between such terrible options?

«Everyone would get a basic minimum of food, shelter, clothing and education.»

Except those like me who refuse to accept money or goods that were stolen or taken by force from others.

But yes, communism is compatible with the idea that all one needs is material: food, shelter, clothing and the like. Under communism, those who want nothing more can be happy, but those who aspire for higher personal goals (including the dignity of living a moral life and refusing to be a thief) are miserable.

«Why should any 6-year-old work in a sweatshop?»

Having been forced to attend school at the age of 6, where I was heavily bullied by the other children, I wonder - I would probably prefer a sweatshop had I been given that option!

«And why would a gay man join a right-wing, bigoted party? He was an idiot.»

If that was the case then he must have been truly confused, but are you sure that he actually was gay? He may have been homosexual, but homosexuality is just a sexual orientation whereas gayness is a political one.

«What do you disagree with about the "gay agenda"? Equality? Tolerance? Acceptance?»

The turning of a biological feature, in this case one's sexual orientation, into an identity.

«Marital rape was legal until recently.»

But it was never moral, then why should it matter?

---

Dear Paul,

«Press gang the whole lot of you into a 'Seniors National Service'sounds are great idea to me.»

There is no need to go down to the level of your adversary: the very thought of compelling others, regardless of age, into "national service" is utterly disgusting and dreadful.

Yuyutsu - until you can provide something better than capitalism, I'm 100% in favor of communism. Ever seen six-year-olds working in a sweatshop instead of studying?

Taxation isn't theft. Taxes build roads, schools, hospitals, and pay for police and firefighters.

Schools aren't sweatshops. You learn things that are useful later in life. Things like math, reading, chemistry, physics, teamwork and so on. Fail.

Sweatshops teach you how to make clothes. And little else.

"Gayness is a political orientation." Please elaborate.

I guess being a bigoted conservative is also a political orientation. One that requires being put within padded walls.

Homosexuality is a sexual identity? What about heterosexuality? Isn't that also a sexual identity?

Last I checked, marital rape was never forbidden in the bible. Neither was slavery. Both are immoral.

Dear AyameTan,

Excellent questions:

«Ever seen six-year-olds working in a sweatshop instead of studying?»

While studying is wonderful, my previous post was about being forced to attend school, which is quite different. One society forces its children into sweatshops, another into schools - I find no substantial difference. Whether or not children learn something there, nobody, let alone children, ought to be forced into any institution: just let them play and study in their own way according to their own inclinations.

«Taxation isn't theft.»

Indeed, ideally taxation ought not be theft.

Sadly however, the way it is practiced today, where money is taken from people involuntarily, with or without their consent, it is a theft, or call it robbery if you prefer. That this money then goes towards important good causes does not change this basic fact.

«You learn things that are useful later in life. Things like math, reading, chemistry, physics, teamwork and so on.»

Even if this rosy picture was correct (many learn nothing, or even acquire bad habits in school!), who is to say what things are useful later in life? The above subjects constitute social engineering towards the goals of the state, not necessary towards the well-being of the children.

«"Gayness is a political orientation." Please elaborate.»

The gay movement aims to create a new social underdog class, presumably based on same-sexual preferences. In reality however, many members of the gay movement are not homosexual and would never consider homosexual activities in their private lives, just as many homosexual people do not consider themselves as underdogs and want nothing to do with this movement.

«Homosexuality is a sexual identity? What about heterosexuality? Isn't that also a sexual identity?»

Neither is!

Sexual orientation is a feature of our biological body.
We HAVE a body - we are NOT that body, hence to identify with our body or with any of its properties or features, is foolish.

«Last I checked, marital rape was never forbidden in the bible. Neither was slavery. Both are immoral.»

Correct on all accounts - since when is the bible a yardstick for morality?

Yuyutsu, how can you compare sweatshops to schools? Schools produce the next generation of authors, lawyers, doctors, teachers and mathematicians.

Sweatshops produce the next generations of slaves who can do little except make clothes.

What would happen if sweatshop workers immolated their factories? They have precious little assets to confiscate.

You want taxes to be replaced with voluntary charity. Say goodbye to your roads and schools.

Chemistry, physics etc are all useful in college. Why do you think colleges offer courses in them?

A "new social underdog class." How recently was it that Australia finally allowed marriage equality?

Neither is? Then why are you so apoplectic about it?

Did you choose which gender you are romantically attracted to? I didn't.

Dear AyameTan,

«Yuyutsu - until you can provide something better than capitalism, I'm 100% in favor of communism.»

As others mentioned already, some middle-of-the-road between the two is better.

Personally I am not satisfied with the middle-of-the-road either, but as you declared: "until you can provide something better", I regret that I cannot provide anything, because people get what they want, not what I want, they don't ask me!

As far as I am concerned, the best is to base life on spirit, not on economics, which all three do (capitalism, communism and everything in between).

Dear AyameTan,

«Yuyutsu, how can you compare sweatshops to schools?»

Both produce slaves. Different kinds of slaves to suit different societies, but slaves nevertheless. As an outline, one kind performs hard physical labour, their bodies sweat, but their minds are relatively free. The others rarely sweat, but are caught in a mental web of materialistic-societal values, often ending up in useless and meaningless jobs and even doing harmful/unethical things in order to pay their bills.

«You want taxes to be replaced with voluntary charity. Say goodbye to your roads and schools.»

The roads I will miss, not the schools...

Anyway, this was not my idea. Taxes should still be collected, but people (individuals only, not companies) should be able to opt out.
HOWEVER, when someone opts out, they would permanently lose all their entitlements for social benefits. This also means for example, that if their homes are invaded and they are robbed clean, the police will not come to their aid, nor will they be served by the courts. Under these conditions, I believe that only an insignificant handful will opt out of paying their tax. The rest however, will become proud to contribute.

«Chemistry, physics etc are all useful in college. Why do you think colleges offer courses in them?»

Colleges are part of the education-system and the overall social-engineering.

«How recently was it that Australia finally allowed marriage equality?»

Same-sex marriages were never disallowed in our lifetime. All that changed is state-recognition of certain marriages.
Marriage is a real thing - not the piece of paper which the state hands!

«Neither is? Then why are you so apoplectic about it?»

Sexuality, ANY sexuality, is a weakness, rather than something to rejoice over, be proud of, identify with or recommend to children.

«Did you choose which gender you are romantically attracted to?»

I actually did, consciously, though my personal story is exceptional and I rather not go into it on this public forum. Most have not chosen it consciously, though ultimately, in a way, we did choose the body that we were born into, along with its sexual inclinations.

The Whitlam effect is what we experience but many failed & still fail to see is the steep decline of a sense of responsibility when he abolished national Service. Did you notice how welfare sky-rocketed ? Did you happen to notice that there's no more manufacturing here because he was in the cot with the Unions without whose help he'd have been just been another Lawyer.
Did you notice the tidal wave of 10 year migrants heading back to their countries & sucking the Aust pension coffers dry (with the help of Grasby). Did you notice the sharp decline in educational standards brought on by "free" education for which we're now paying dearly ? did you take notice of the rapid & massive increase of the (mainly) Labor voting Public Servants ?
Did you notice the rapidly increasing number of indoctrinated pseudo intellectuals due to the free education ?
Did you notice how the Pension Fund for which we paid, went off the radar during his years ?
If you require more let cool down from my anger of having to deal with this avalanche pseudo intellectuals thanks to the "progressives" that the Goaf kick-started so I can concentrate better.
Open your eyes people. Taking three steps forward & four back is not progress ! The proof is all around us for all to see if you're old enough !
The Whiltlam Legacy is the battle we're up against now yet every pseudo intellecdtual blames the present Govt. Wake Up !

I have a better solution to Australia's current system. Emulate the Benelux countries. They have strong welfare programs and excellent healthcare.

Finland ranks #1.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/slideshows/countries-with-the-most-well-developed-public-health-care-system?slide=11

Both produce slaves? Really? Sweatshop girls don't earn enough to achieve a better life for themselves.

You don't miss schools? Did you homeschool yourself? Do you have a college degree? A Master's? A PhD?

Prohibiting recognition is hardly different from prohibition. Fail. If a killer takes your life, the government's "recognition" of your right to life means nothing. Rights mean nothing without laws to back them up.

All sexuality is a form of weakness? I guess you don't like people who reproduce, then. Do you give out free condoms? Do you pay for free vasectomies?

You chose your sexuality? I guess you can choose to change it, then. Do so, and upload a video, please.

And how can we choose our body when we don't have memories before we were born?

Individual: why should I feel pride or responsibility towards Australia? I didn't choose to live there when I was a teenager. And I'm not proud of what the LNP governments have done. Except for the gun control laws.

AyameTan
You couldn't be more wrong about all that's wrong here now. It was Labor governments that brought this Nation to its knees with their weakening of Laws, Education, Welfare & indoctrination en-masse to garner votes from people who don't know what they're voting for.
When the Goaf removed National Service to score the votes he effectively removed the #1 building block for the Nation ! And, you people applaud it ! Can you please start thinking about others who you share this Nation with ? Could you honestly say that the services & life style we enjoy to a lesser degree every day could have eventuated with today's mentality ?
Australia began heading South with Goaf's policies !

Indy, when you were a young fellow, surly you didn't wait to be called up, gung-ho Indy would have been at the head of the queue, down at the army recruitment office, just itching to do his bit for King and Country. Nah, I bet you dogged it!

BTW, for how long now have you been swinging off the public teat, with that Aged Pension?

Yuyutsu, Indy will tell you one of the bad things Whitlam did was to put an end to National Service, and Australia's involvement in the disgusting Vietnam War. A war in which 521 young Australians were murdered by the actions of a warmongering Coalition government. At that time the biggest supporters of conscription were bloody old men and women over 65 years of age. People who had no chance of ever being conscripted themselves.

A big supporter of the Vietnam War at that time was young Liberal Party President Little Johnny Howard. Although a big supporter of conscription, like his hero Pig Iron Bob Menzies had been during WWI, a war the coward Menzies refused to serve in, although a supporter, and being of the right age. Howard dodged military service by hiding out in England for a good part of the 1960's. Gough Whitlam had served in WWII.

Individual - do you think national service should be mandatory?

Congratulations. You've destroyed the higher education system. Good luck training engineers, brilliant mathematicians and cutting-edge scientists.

Training soldiers makes them good soldiers. That training doesn't carry over to other things like scientific research, or writing novels. Did you go to college? Or are you bitter because you spent a few years in the army instead?

521 young Australians were murdered by the actions of a warmongering Coalition government
Paul1405 & Ayame Tan,
I have not served because I was not eligible when I enquired, not an Australian Citizen then.
Paul1405 you're way out of line with that ! Apart from being utterly hypocritical it is also highly offensive considering that you're sitting comfy here in Australia now because these soldiers efforts.
My guess is you haven't contributed enough to this society to warrant more than a few months worth of the Taxpayer funded Superannuation you're most likely bludging on now.

You've destroyed the higher education system.
Ayame Tan,
I see you have no idea about a national Service otherwise you'd know by now that it is not Military & that I have stated to saturation point that only young unemployed should be required to participate.
see if you can comprehend that & then put forward your idea of what should be done to get the young unemployed to become contributing members of society instead of demanding !

Independent -

You weren't eligible? Did you try to gain citizenship?

And how was the higher education system "destroyed"? What subjects were eliminated that you disliked?

Ah, so you mean the Work for the Dole thing. Thank you for clarifying. I think that's fine, but skill development should take priority. Skills are needed for everything except menial jobs.

Dear Individual,

No wonder I had no clue about "the Whitlam effect", nor could I notice anything because I was not living in Australia at the time: practically all I knew was where to find it in the atlas.

But before immigrating here, I verified that there was no conscription and the Australian consul assured us that conscription is indeed banned by Australian law: otherwise I would surely find some other place to settle.

---

Dear AyameTan,

«Both produce slaves?»

Yes, though different kind of slaves.
Having money does not mean that one's life is any better: what good is increasing the supply when the demand too is growing even faster?

My hero, Diogenes the Greek, was completely happy and free because he needed nothing. Without any academic degree, he was one of the wisest people that ever lived.

«You don't miss schools?»

Certainly not. What I wanted to know, I already studied on my own so when I reached school there was nothing for me to learn there. I got my academic degrees for all the wrong reasons, mainly because I was pressured into it by my family.

«Prohibiting recognition»

Recognition was not prohibited, the state simply did not grant it. Anyone else was free to recognise marriages as they pleased, including same-sex marriages.

«I guess you don't like people who reproduce»

Incorrect, yet I pity them.

«Do you give out free condoms? Do you pay for free vasectomies?»

I wasn't, but you gave me a good idea for charity-giving. Thanks.

«You chose your sexuality?»

I answered 'Yes', not because I wanted to prove any point, but because you asked me this directly and any other answer would have been a lie. Again, I do not wish to share my private history on a public forum, including the exceptional circumstances that led me to this choice, many years ago.

«we don't have memories before we were born?»

Strictly speaking, choice does not require memory. Nevertheless, we do have memories of a sort, though without a brain they are not verbal like the memories that we store in our brains.

And how was the higher education system "destroyed"? What subjects were eliminated that you disliked?
Ayame Tan,
Why ask me that when it's you who said it ??

Never argue with an idiot.
The drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

I'm not in favor of cutting the education budget. Conservatives like you are.

It keeps the population uneducated and voting for them.

and yet our education costs increase every year and our rankings in all the tables of achievement go down. Please explain Miss Kowasaki?

I'm not in favor of cutting the education budget. Conservatives like you are.
Ayame Tan,
So, seeing that Education in Australia has gone from bad to worse despite record funding, do you then support waste also ?
I'm a Conservative simply because watching the likes of you with poor mentality is a no brainer to shy away from the regressive Progressives.
Or, are you trying to tell us the billions thrown at education here are well spent ?
I don't think so ! At least I can't see any evidence of it.

Bad to worse? That would be the fault of the teachers, correct? Because they're wasting so much time on religion. Giving millions to pastors as "counselors" only makes things worse.

The simple act of being a conservative means you only care about your own rights.

The word "education" is derived from EDUCE = "bring out or develop (something latent or potential)". The assumption is that the student already has good qualities within, that are only waiting be uncovered.

But what goes under "education" today has nothing to do with it - modern schools are palaces of indoctrination, the entrails of the prevailing society where children are digested, including (but not limited to) in order to make them cannon-fodder in countries that are at war and cogwheels in the industrial/economic model of countries that are relatively in peace.

Not a cent should be provided towards this sinister cause!

In the least, if states wish to claim and prove their (non-existent) innocence and true good-will towards the children under their jurisdiction, then they should give each child (through his/her representatives, the parents) equal education vouchers, which parents can then use to pay for their own choice of educational services/materials for their beloved children that are truly educational, not indoctrinational.

Cannon fodder? I guess we should get rid of the military. And religious indoctrination. Religious indoctrination led to 9/11, ISIS and militants worldwide.

Dear AyameTan,

I explained this many times already in this forum, but perhaps you were not present, so I will say it one more time:

Those Islamist militants you mentioned, ISIS and the rest, among others, including many who call themselves "Christians", are not religious at all: whatever evil they do does not take them even one millimeter towards God, thus it is nonsensical to speak of their indoctrination methods as "religious".

Certainly secular indoctrination has led to millions of unborn being slaughtered. The 'science' denying the humanity of an unborn child is the same as the denying Jews were people. Secular terrorist are 'champions' hiding their pure evil. Just ask planned parenthood.

Yuyutsu, how can ISIS be anything except religious? They quote from the Koran all the time.

Runner, plenty of religious people have abortions. If religion was all it took to prevent abortion, religious people wouldn't have any.

http://ww1.antiochian.org/node/16950

"Who's having abortions (religion)?
Women identifying themselves as Protestants obtain 37.4% of all abortions in the U.S.; Catholic women account for 31.3%, Jewish women account for 1.3%, and women with no religious affiliation obtain 23.7% of all abortions. 18% of all abortions are performed on women who identify themselves as "Born-again/Evangelical"."

Dear AyameTan,

«Yuyutsu, how can ISIS be anything except religious? They quote from the Koran all the time.»

So? What's religious about that? Even a parrot can!

You really surprise me if you can believe even for a moment that cruel actions like theirs, the killing, torture and rape of innocents, can lead anyone towards God - they do not! Such perpetrators are evil sinners who will spend a long time in hell for their actions.

You may like this one: http://www.reddit.com/r/Jokes/comments/2ctjgi/the_christian_lion/

Bad to worse? That would be the fault of the teachers, correct?
Ayame Tan,
Yes ! Not only though, much of it is due to the sabotage to this Nation by Leftist indoctrinated idealists who happily accept the benefits that are derived from the efforts of those who provide & get called Conservatives along the way.
Tell me please, what benefits to our society have come due to the input of the Left in the past 12 months ? By that I don't mean revenue from the Govt coffers, I mean actual revenue made by Leftist contribution !

Yuyutsu: you assume there is only ONE god. And that god is peaceful.

Ever heard of Ares, Greek god of war? Besides, in an actual war, there are millions willing to join the WINNING side.

Individual: the Left has helped secure strong welfare protections. Would you be happier if people in poverty joined gangs instead? I've also never heard you rail against corporate subsidies. And let's not forget about marriage equality and voluntary assisted dying laws in Victoria and Western Australia.

Now please. Tell me what benefits your conservatives ideals have brought to Australia.

Dear AyameTan,

«Yuyutsu: you assume there is only ONE god. And that god is peaceful.»

Assuming more than one God leads to logical contradictions!

I never claimed that God is peaceful - what I said was that violent people have practically no chance to come closer to God.

«Ever heard of Ares, Greek god of war?»

Ares is not God. If anything, he is only a 'god' with a small 'g'.

«Besides, in an actual war, there are millions willing to join the WINNING side.»

Millions of what? of gods? I don't seem to understand what you are trying to say - perhaps you missed a word or a sentence?

Yuyutsu

Why do multiple gods lead to contradictions? Unless more than one is omni-something, there is no contradiction.

Why are violent people less likely to find god? Your conclusion doesn't follow.

How do you know the Greek gods aren't real? Have you tried praying to them?

Millions of desperate people afraid of getting a sword to the gut or a bullet in the chest.

Dear AyameTan,

I really fail to understand what you are trying to get at and how is that related to this topic.

Multiplicity of gods need not lead to logical contradictions so long as each is limited. That which is limited however, cannot be God.

So there could possibly be many gods/deities with a small 'g', like Ares that you mentioned earlier: it is not for me to pass judgement whether they are real or otherwise, or whether their violent worshipers can find them.

My sole interest is in God. Neither myself nor any religious person has the time for such limited little gods. It is just surprising what suddenly sparks your interest in them?

Yuyutsu:

Ah, so you're defining god as a being who is omnipotent.

I am interested in debating almost anything. Please tell me: why do you believe in God? What convinced you he's real?

Dear AyameTan,

«I am interested in debating almost anything»

Good, but this is probably not the best place for it because we are limited to just 4 posts a day and are probably disturbing those who still wish to discuss about drag queens and children.

«Ah, so you're defining god as a being who is omnipotent.»

Not at all, and how dare I anyway attempt to define God?
The claim that "God is omnipotent" can easily be dismissed by the paradox: "Can God create a rock so heavy that He Himself could not lift?". Anything that is potent must exist within time and space - what a limiting factor! Rather, time and space themselves can only exist within God and speaking of them is meaningless otherwise.

«Please tell me: why do you believe in God?»

To the extent that I know that I am, to that extent I must believe in that which I am.

«What convinced you he's real?»

The alternative is to deny myself. Am I not real? Can you seriously entertain the idea that you are not real? If I am real and you are real, then we could not be two, then we must be one and the same - and that one is God!

Yuyutsu, when you say you believe in god, you're defining him at the same time. That's what you've been doing for the last few days.

"In that which I am." Please stop copying Jordan Peterson and post in plain English.

Just because more than one person is real doesn't also mean that god is real. I don't see how you reached the conclusion that god is real.

the Left has helped secure strong welfare protections.
Now please. Tell me what benefits your conservatives ideals have brought to Australia.
Ayame tan,
The Conservatives have built the facilities & reasonable Peace (which the Leftists are keen to destroy) that this Nation is only just still enjoying.
The leftists are hypocrites of the highest order. To me they're gutless, vindictive maggots who perpetually sabotage our efforts to improve our society.

Dear AyameTan,

It is not possible to define God in a positive manner, but we can still say what God is not. If you need a provisional definition of God, you could use this: God is not an object, yet there is nothing, nor can there be anything, besides God.

«Just because more than one person is real doesn't also mean that god is real»

Correct, but I was speaking of you and I, not of persons.

"Person" is derived from Greek "persona" = mask. We sort of "wear" a person and temporarily identify with it like a mask that we wear when going on stage. An actor might even forget that they wear a mask, but when the show ends, they remember and take it off. I was referring to our true selves, not to our masks.

Belief in God consists of three elements: experience, blind faith and logic. The wise say that with time and religious practices, experience can increase and blind faith reduce, then when direct experience completely replaces blind faith, belief changes into knowledge.

By my direct experience I know that I am real. Had I not known this, then I would need to resort to blind faith to assume so.

By blind faith, for the time-being, I assume that you also are real. In time I hope to experience this directly too, then blind faith will no longer be required.

By logic, there are four possible ways by which we are able to communicate, rather than exist in a world of our own:

1) We are both made of some common underlying reality.
2) I am made of you.
3) You are made of me.
4) We are one and the same.

#1 is excluded when I speak of our true selves, our true reality rather than our personalities/masks. If there is an underlying reality, then we truly ARE this reality.

#2 is excluded because I am real.
#3 is excluded because you are real.

Only option #4 remains.

That which I am, you are, and everyone else truly is, I refer to as God.

Individual: which facilities and reasonable peace are you referring to? Please be specific. And please explain how conservative ideals and people were the only ways to accomplish them.

And why are leftists keen to "destroy this peace"? I don't know why any sane person would want to destroy peace.

Also, please explain how leftists are hypocrites. I would argue that conservatives are hypocrites. Why didn't they send welfare recipients to war? And why do politicians draw such high salaries?

Yuyutsu, you're rambling. Please read this article.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Word_salad

Dear AyameTan,

I understand that you have no further questions.

I have plenty of questions, Yuyutsu. You've never shown a logical link between the existence of people and the existence of your god.

Did you even read the article I linked to?

Here's another one: what's the highest level of English education you've received?

Dear AyameTan,

«You've never shown a logical link between the existence of people and the existence of your god.»

Are these the only two ideas that I've never shown a logical link between? Are these the only two ideas which never even came up in our conversation so far?

Now since you mentioned it, speaking of "the existence of my god" is similar to asking about the gender of my pet-turtle when I do not have a pet-turtle.

«Did you even read the article I linked to?»

I read the first sentence, failed to understand it, then gave up as my interest in that article was not big enough to make the necessary effort to fully understand it.

The question is, how genuinely are you interested in finding an answer to the questions that you ask me. When I ask a question and fail to understand the answer, I always insist on clarifications and have no problem admitting what I failed to understand.

«what's the highest level of English education you've received?»

Matriculation with distinction in English as second language.

I keep improving my English by participating in this forum. At times that's my only reward.

Yuyutsu: I'm not surprised you failed to understand it. Most theists fail at reading comprehension.

Why would I read a book (or a forum post) that deliberately uses words and expressions that an English professor couldn't understand? The only reason to do so would be to confuse and/or manipulate your audience.

Dear AyameTan,

Nothing was written here with the intent of confusing English professors.

There is no shame in failing to understand. If there is anything in my posts which I wrote in answer to your questions that you cannot understand, then please let me know so I can clarify or explain it further.

It's not my fault if you like to ramble and bring up red herrings. You didn't read the website, did you?|

If god existed, he wouldn't need hundreds of rambling apologists like yourself to defend him.

Your argument boiled down to "individuals exist, therefore god exists." Which is logically invalid.

Dear AyameTan,

«If god existed, he wouldn't need hundreds of...»

Well He doesn't.

Some religious people mistakenly think that God exists, failing to understand that existence is a material term which can only apply to objects (=things), whereas God is not a thing. Small gods like Ares may (or may not) exist, but had God been confined to existence (which is not the case!), then wouldn't people be better off worshiping Existence itself instead?

«Your argument boiled down to "individuals exist, therefore god exists"

Please check again: I did not mention individuals, nor "God exists".

I never claimed that we are individuals (or describable in any other way).
You are what you are (and by that I am not referring to things that you have, such as a body and a mind, which are only your persona, a mask). If you are lucky enough to have experienced yourself (separate from your experience of your persona), then well and good - otherwise you will need to use blind faith.

Similarly I am what I am, and since we (and all others) can communicate, we must be one and the same.

That which we all are, that which no one and nothing (including existence itself) can be different from, I refer to as God.

Now let us take a step back: members of ISIS who do unimaginably cruel things to others, cannot be religious because their actions take them further away from the realization that they and those they kill and torture, are in fact one and the same, God.

It's been days and STILL no response from Individual. May I consider this an admission of defeat?