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The Forum > Article Comments > The density dilemma > Comments

The density dilemma : Comments

By Ross Elliott, published 28/11/2019

Our rates of growth are similar to Chinese mega cities like Shanghai or Beijing, and well ahead of comparably productive, profitable cities of the west with qualities we often seek to emulate.

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It is thought the 8th century Mayan civilisation in present day Guatemala starved itself by forcing farming too far away from populated areas. The high priests and their hangers on couldn't feed themselves. Shortages meant other South American groups like the Incas and Aztecs couldn't repel invasions. Good thing it can't happen here.

We all want to be model ecological citizens. However that's not possible on ever shrinking house blocks or high rise living. Ideally we want solar panels, a battery bank, a vegie patch, rainwater tanks, undercover parking and a short commute for the EV. I'd say we've gone too far in squashing people together
Posted by Taswegian, Thursday, 28 November 2019 8:25:24 AM
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A recent cartoon in a daily paper had Nemo and his mum swimming along the gold coast coastline. As they did, little Nemo pointed a fin at the high rise towers and remarked, look mum, tinned people.

We hug a densely populated coastline competing with koalas for habitat and with farmers for arable land and water. the first we cover with asphalt and concrete the second (drinking water) we flush wastefully out to sea.

Cities consume potable water and can never ever exceed a reasonable supply of the same. Bigger dams may hold more water but they evaporate more as well.

We just cannot continue to populate skyward without both water and new energy delivery infrastructure. And it's long past time we've allowed naysaying developers to decide we can't have rapid rail and the cheaper housing and new urban sprawl that that would engender. If both water and now, CARBON FREE, reliable, dispatchable 24/7 energy are paramount to and absolutely essential to development, cannot be excluded! I will expand my remarks on the absolute essentials of both water and ultracheap, CARBON FREE energy. TBC
Alan B
Posted by Alan B., Thursday, 28 November 2019 10:35:44 AM
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Highrise developments with their need for elevators pumps and air exchange, produce 2.5 times more carbon pollution than their country cousins! And done to serve the profit imperatives of both landlords and developers/property investors "COAL".

Who frequently, routinely ignore city planning and city planners. Who would assert, no highrise should throw a shadow on any other building.

This requirement of sane development ensures some green space for residents to use. Were such a paradigm to be rigidly enforced. Rapid rail would have already been rolled out!

We do our development arse up. we build the houses etc then follow that with essential infrastructure when we absolutely have too!

How close did those terrible fires come to Sydney?

And given they weren't stopped what would the toll have been?

We send drinking water out to sea as millions of annual litres. We use drinking water to flush our conveniences. Why? Perhaps because successive governments were incompetent, corrupt or stupid? Or some combination of all three?

I mean, why did we absolutely have to have an ICAC? Nothing demonstrates the foregoing than our addiction to coal and the gagging of the saner, nuclear debate!?

It's way beyond time that our alleged representatives started doing the job we so generously pay them for, rather than the spit lickle quislings for debt-laden, tax-avoiding, price gouging, profit repatriating, foreigners!?

We should be building co-op operated energy generators fuelled by other folk's nuclear waste and be paid annual billions for providing such service! And in absolute perfect safety No question!

Then use that virtually costless energy to power, far away cheaper, deionization dialysis desalination and our single-stage steel mills, aluminium smelters we'd need to make the pipelines etc.

And in our new graphene highways that charge our electric vehicles on the go.

It's called planning but with both future vision and the application of intelligence by OUR alleged representatives!
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Thursday, 28 November 2019 12:23:29 PM
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Here Here I say ! The biggest losers in the push for higher density
housing are the children. Where are the gangs of kids racing up and
down the street on their bikes and scooters ?
Drivers knew after school hours to expect kids in the street.
The kids are no longer coming into each others yard to play.
I suspect those kids were more healthy in both mind and body.
The planners answer to that is a little park at the bottom of a 25
floor block of units. What mother can keep an eye on that ?

That is not progress but the raising of some strange children.
Posted by Bazz, Thursday, 28 November 2019 3:06:43 PM
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Alan B said;
And in our new graphene highways that charge our electric vehicles on the go.

If that is an inductive system it looks like it is not a goer as WARC
(World Administrative Radio Conference) is looking at rule making.
I think a long system like that at those powers would be a no no.
Near perfect radiator.
The in road systems over which you park to charge are also in doubt.
Also inductive type stoves might also be for the chop.
Posted by Bazz, Thursday, 28 November 2019 3:25:53 PM
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I commend the article.

Overpopulation is our greatest disease. So long as it is not dealt with, it is bound to erupt in many different symptoms and the article discusses one of them. Attempting to treat the symptoms without addressing the underlying issue can never work.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Thursday, 28 November 2019 5:29:27 PM
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Overpopulation is our greatest disease.
Yuyutsu,
Do me a favour & put that argument to the religious people who don't believe in curbing population growth i.e. birth control ?
Posted by individual, Saturday, 30 November 2019 7:51:59 AM
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Dear Individual,

«Do me a favour & put that argument to the religious people who don't believe in curbing population growth i.e. birth control»

I can always try and if my listener(s) are indeed religious then they may accept my arguments. However, often is the case when one's motive for procreation is anything but religious, even if it is garbed as such, in which case they are unlikely to listen to me. The most common motive where "religion" is used as pretext, is ethnic/national/sectarial where one uses the womb as a weapon to win over "competing" groups.

Since you mentioned "birth control", note that the above is not for diminishing the virtue of celibacy - the question is what is second-best when one cannot or is unwilling to practice celibacy. In my view, sterilisation is second-best.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Saturday, 30 November 2019 9:35:09 PM
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sterilisation is second-best.
Yuyutsu,
In my book it's the ONLY method because celibacy is a fallacy. Just look at priests & nuns & other do-gooder hypocrites. Don't believe me, ask the countless kids who are abuse victims.
Read a "Letter to the women of the World" by Hans Hass.
https://divermag.com/letter-to-the-women-of-the-world-by-hans-hass/
There'll be those morons who'll call a coitus interuptus 'murdering' & the sufferings of starving children God's will.
Yes, overpopulation is a huge threat but human stupidity, particularly those of the over-educated, is the greatest threat to this planet !
Posted by individual, Sunday, 1 December 2019 5:44:40 AM
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Dear Individual,

Celibacy is an advanced method, it is not meant for everyone and is extremely difficult to follow unless one is trained in it since early age, way before puberty.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Sunday, 1 December 2019 6:52:25 AM
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Yuyutsu,
Please !
Posted by individual, Sunday, 1 December 2019 11:07:30 AM
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extremely difficult to follow unless one is trained in it since early age, way before puberty.
Yuyutsu,
Calling such appalling indoctrination training is sick in the extreme !
Posted by individual, Monday, 2 December 2019 8:26:47 PM
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Dear Individual,

Please do not worry - there is hardly a chance for you to receive this good education: I wish I had it while I was growing up, but it is only meant for the very best among us, even Prince Andrew missed on it, now he is in trouble...
Posted by Yuyutsu, Wednesday, 4 December 2019 11:10:51 AM
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"Federal Minister for Cities & Population last week (19 Nov 2019) declared at a Committee for Brisbane event that he believed Melbourne – his home city – was probably 20 years behind in the infrastructure needed to keep pace with its growth."

Alan Tudge is a ridiculous clown. He admits that our cities are failing to keep pace with growth but won't do anything to slow that population growth. The Morrison Government could slash immigration levels tomorrow if it was serious about alleviating urban growth pressures.

Speaking of density, the situation will only worsen under the current mass-immigration Big Australia policy. As economist Leith van Onselen notes:

"In addition to driving up congestion and eroding amenity, Australia’s mass immigration policy is transforming the structure of Australia’s cities from lower density detached housing toward high density. This change is most pervasive in Sydney and Melbourne where both immigration and population growth have been, and are projected to remain, the strongest.

... projections show that, assuming Sydney reaches 10 million people shortly after mid-century, the share of Sydney’s dwelling stock comprised of detached housing will more than halve from 55 per cent in 2016 to 25 per cent in 2057. By contrast, apartments will increase their share of Sydney’s dwelling stock from 30 per cent to 50 per cent over the same period, whereas townhouses will increase their share from 14 per cent to 25 per cent.

The rapid population growth and densification of Australia’s two major cities has also helped drive the cost of housing to extreme levels."

Nor is 'better planning' a panacea to any of these problems. To quote Van Onselen again:

"The often expressed hope that ‘better planning’ will be sufficient to overcome any challenges caused by population growth, fails to grasp that this growth is premised upon a compliant and malleable planning apparatus which enables developers to achieve maximum throughput, at lowest cost and for maximum reward. To do the planning ‘better’ would by definition be costlier and more time-consuming – and thus could not support the current high rates of population increase."

Source: http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2019/12/the-death-of-the-aussie-backyard/
Posted by FrankU, Wednesday, 11 December 2019 11:46:28 PM
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