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The Forum > Article Comments > Rescuing secular democracy > Comments

Rescuing secular democracy : Comments

By Pablo Jiménez Lobeira, published 1/5/2019

A stunning phenomenon has overturned the way in which we in the West regard the public sphere in particular, and democracy in general, in the twenty-first century: the re-emergence of religion.

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Hey runner,

I don't deny whom you refer to as Creator.
Denial would put me in the "I know" category;
And for me all things being equal those who 'deny' are much the same as those whom 'agree'.
They 'KNOW'.
I sit opposite those who 'Know'.
My official position is 'I don't know'.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Saturday, 4 May 2019 5:00:56 PM
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"Bring on an investigation of religion. I encourage you to not wait for some one else to do it for you either. But also while doing this have a thought on secular positions and ethics."

It can't be a job for just me, then it would just be my opinion, as you say.
We need a group of people looking at each religion and giving it fair criticism from the outside perspective, and then a group of people who are in support of the religion who can answer the criticisms and can speak for it from their side.

There's no point doing it unless we do it properly and fairly.
The aim is to learn something.

If I was to do so I'd probably start by looking at each religion.

For Islam I'd start here.
What The West Needs To Know About Islam | William J. Federer
http://youtu.be/-YpJjRzQDIM

Then I'd watch this one:
Sheikh Imran Hosein - Beyond September 11
http://youtu.be/DeQ_wfUBjws
http://youtu.be/4mx3EUU5ZuQ

It's going to give you a bit of a background to what Muslims believe about Malhama (AKA Armageddon, Apocalypse or End Times for Christians) and the role of Israel and the Zionists

From here I suppose we should go look at Judaism and find out what thats all about.

Moshiach and the Future Redemption - By Rabbi Simon Jacobson
http://youtu.be/ERQTZ3TIfDA

Now I haven't gotten right into Judaism yet, fell asleep watching the above video;
There seems to be this benevolent side of Judaism;
But then there seems to be this other malevolent side
Where 'Jews are Gods chosen people' and believe its their right to rule over non-Jews (Goyim) and that they serve as cattle solely for Jews benefit.

I suppose you should then watch this:
The Jerusalem Conspiracy
http://youtu.be/syUSQEUpTTQ

And then finally we could go and see what Christians have to say about it all.
There seems to be a schism within Christianity, those who support Israel unconditionally, and those who oppose Zionism.

For a Christian perspective that opposes Zionism watch TRUnews
http://www.youtube.com/user/TRUNEWSofficial/videos
Posted by Armchair Critic, Saturday, 4 May 2019 6:35:41 PM
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You also want to have a look at all the conspiracy things related to Jews and Israel, look at their part in wars, their foreign policies and also have a look at America and their Pro-Israel Neoconservative foreign policies.

Do it fairly, based it on facts;
Not narrative or conjecture;
Not open for arguments.

Take it all in - a sweeping overview -

Then:

Compile all the info up in a small book 'Religions for Dummies' as I said earlier, so we can ALL read it, and ALL have the same info in which to have a sound basis for further constructive discussion;
and then get back to me.

- And someone better hurry up and do it all we're all screwed -
Posted by Armchair Critic, Saturday, 4 May 2019 6:41:39 PM
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To Armchair Critic.

Looking into the book you put a link for. Found on google a PDF to reference. Haven't read much of it but at least from the table of contents it seems the author is serious about his theory of ethics, with a few chapters later on on tests where universal ethics such as murder and theft are the test of his ethics. (Or at least that's my assumption on the subject matter before reading the chapters). So far though I have a few concerns with the subject matter in the book. Not whether ethical and moral systems can exist without religion, but on his approach as a whole.

On page 9 and 10 of the book, the author goes over some ground rules. Guidelines for himself and the reader I assume. Rule six though is a bit concerning though. On the topic of defining and supporting a system of ethical stances or approaches, having in there a statement acknowledging that it's possible there's no such thing as ethics is a bit troubling. Acknowledging the challenge is one thing but to acknowledge it as potentially ally true to s a bit concerning.

On page 13-19 the author confronts a second challenge. Something he terms as "middle truths." Basically the counter truths that are actually not true at all, but are the examples an ethical system not being what it claims to be, or the rationale for those examples.

(Continued)
Posted by Not_Now.Soon, Sunday, 5 May 2019 2:15:55 AM
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(Continued)

I'll look into the book more because it tries to describe an and defend an ethical approach that I'm more familiar with known as relative morality instead of the newer term universal morality. (So far both seem interchangeable, and my concerns for relative morality turning into no morality is my ongoing issue). However as of now the concern is that the author's preference that there is no God, that the rationalizations of God are delusions or something else as well, might just be another "middle truth" something that isn't true but instead is a logical perspective that harms the approach as a whole for finding an ethical standard on observations and experience. With that in mind the approach of his could be just as much a false middle truth, as religion is rationalized away as being a middle truth in his book.

Regardless of the book though, (I'll try to read it if my IPad doesn't die, due to issues recharging it), I do like the idea of looking into religions. I don't know if secular ethics should be the foundation for looking into religion because in most perspectives on secular ethics I've googled there's the strong urge to deny the possibly of God, and therefore would not be a good measure of the religions it investigates, due to already having a conclusion on all of them as false to begin with.

(Continued)
Posted by Not_Now.Soon, Sunday, 5 May 2019 2:19:00 AM
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(Continued)

If I can give one suggestion. A group of of investigators would consist of at least one person from each religion and philosophy being investigated. At least one person would be from a secular ethics position, while others would be of religions that will be investigated. All positions would be investigated, as to make it fairer when it is that subjects turn to be investigated (religion or secular) the group would find enough other people in that religion or secular perspective to temporary join the investigation and share what they know of it from an inside the perspective position. This way there will be an equal number of people who do not believe in the religious or secular position being investigated, as there are people that can defend or offer insight on the matter.

Just my thought so that one philosophy doesn't strong arm the other philosophies by tiring out the fewer people that are in the support of what's being investigated. Try to make it fair so that the truth has a better chance of being both investigated and having a chance to be seen.

Sorry for the length, but I'm worried that this may be my last comment for a while if my iPad stops works and can't recharge.
Posted by Not_Now.Soon, Sunday, 5 May 2019 2:20:58 AM
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