Relevant!? Remain!? It hasn't been relevant for years any more than any other cult? It just happens to arguably be the biggest and longest established one?

And, I believe, takes pious hypocrisy to brand new uncharted levels?

Personally, given I had my druthers, would subject all the evidence, allowed and disallowed, by all participants, be tested with unbeatable space age lie detection.

If we must believe in something solid that can never ever disappoint us? Why not the might irrefutable truth?

Even if that has to be accompanied by the pain of disillusionment, disbelief, shared disgrace and disgust!

SUFFER LITTLE CHILDREN!
Alan B.

Oh poor, not yet defrocked, Pell.

But does he have dirt on the ever supportive Pope?

Pell is too great a personage to be tried by a non-religious court! Aye?

Thank you Murray Hunter for your calm and dispassionate overview and outline of this situation.If a person can be found guilty on the basis of one uncorroborated accusation we have reached a very dangerous place indeed.
The natural and justifiable anger about the fate of victims of abuse has produced a yearning for people to be made to be punished which has been maintained at a fever pitch.Deep anger and resentment can blind people and cause them to abandon reason.
I have concerns about the behaviour of the judge in this case.When he was first invested as a judge he said he felt it his duty to bridge the gap between the courts and the public.I do not find it reassuring to hear a judge speak in this fashion. Judges are there to mete out justice not to soothe public anger about an issue.The absolute crux of justice is that no person should be found guilty by any jury if the prosecution cannot prove that they are guilty beyond any reasonable doubt.For a judge to stop the defence from presenting material crucial to showing reasonable doubt exists and to forbid access to the medical records of the accuser is a cause for some concern.The anonymity of the accuser is also a curious aspect of this particular case. In past cases of victims seeking justice they have wanted the world to see and hear them because they were weary of being unbelieved and this was their moment to stand proud Why wasn't the case prosecuted while both lads were alive? If that had been done the jury could have heard the now sadly deceased boy either corroborate the living lad's account or repeat his denial that any abuse had occurred at all.I have lived long enough to know all is not always what it first seems and judgements are very difficult to form when in the grip of strong emotions.
Finally the judge's behaviour in inviting the world media and then having his sentencing broadcast showed a worrying narcissism more akin to the "show Biz" style of some courts in America.

Alan B,

Could we have a reference to this unbeatable lie detection?

plantagenet,

Your prejudices are shewing!!

You obviously are a long way from contact with the real people of Oz Murray.

"The nation is polarized, if not traumatized by the verdict". Where the hell have you been Murray. Apart from the rabid left media, & the Catholic/Christianity hating left of the political spectrum, no one in the real world is very interest at all.

While I am of the opinion that he did not have a snowflakes chance in hell of getting a fair trial, with all the media ruckus, I have no idea, opinion, or interest in the question of his guilt.

I have never heard anyone I know, or heard around town, anyone discuss or show any interest in the whole story..

Just get over it Murray. There has to be something wrong with people who are so interested in a dying religious sect, who's members parade around in funny dresses, & prattle on in a dead language

Pell's big mistake and he big mistake of is legal team was Pell's failure to get into the witness box. That never was an available tatic of a man who has made his living for 50 years as a preacher of the Gospel- a teacher of "truth".

@Issy Miss

Listen to the sage words of Hasbeen.

Mitey Bitey

I agree with what Hasbeen has said, mainly.

Except,

"There has to be something wrong with people who are so interested in a dying religious sect, who's members parade around in funny dresses, & prattle on in a dead language".

Catholicism is not a sect, it is Christianity; there are breakaway sects.
The members do not parade around in funny dresses, the members wear ordinary clothes peculiar to whichever country of which they are citizens.
Catholicism does not use a dead language, it uses the local languages, English in English speaking countries, French in French speaking, German etc., etc.

Last time that I was in India, a month back, I went to a Hindi Mass, other choices at the local Church were English and Telugu.

"A nation is traumatized with the fall of its most senior religious figure."

Oh what a joke; really?
Must I really read this?
- whatever it is you wrote -

I really hope you're not including me when you refer to 'the nation'

I'll tell you all a true story...

I remember back in 1996 George Pell was made Archbishop of Melbourne.
There was a big investigation into child sex abuse at the time;
He may have even been placed in charge of looking into it.

I remember taking one look at Pell on the TV and proclaiming ignorantly to everyone there at the time:

"Oh what a bunch of idiots, he's likely a bloody peedo too".

Now he we are 23 years later;
And the nation is 'shocked and traumatised'.

Well I'm not bloody surprised, I saw this coming a quarter of a century ago.

100% True Story.

Whats the bigger picture?
What are the chances the person appointed to look into child sex abuse was a peedo themselves and what are the chances my prediction would be right?

When you make a prediction like that and it turns out your right;
- Well I think I've earned my right to say the Catholic Church -

Is nothing but a pedophile sanctuary and I've grown tired of the news stories that only highlight that their contribution to society is a 'trail strewn with garbage'.

AC,

The Cardinal was also investigated when he was in Sydney
prior to that for charges against an altar boy. He
stood aside while the investigation was carried out.
The charges were dropped. But not dismissed.

Interesting history?

cont'd ...

I can't help but wonder why the Cardinal did not
testify at his trial? Could it be perhaps that he did not want to swear on the Bible to tell the truth?

It is a cause for grief that an old and harmless man was thrown in jail, even more so that it was for something he might have done 20 years ago and is no longer (if ever it was) an ingredient of his current way of life.

That he happened to hold a high office in the Church, is irrelevant.

If George Pell was disgraced, then it was 20 years ago. He is not disgraced now, nor can an illegitimate human civil court disgrace anyone!

FOXY,

"Could it be perhaps that he did not want to swear on the Bible to tell the truth?"

Could it be that you are so naive as to imagine that a paedophile priest would care two hoots about false swearing?

My, you are getting desperate.

Unbeatable space age lie detection is a combination of two ttechnlogies and has the advantage of being able to be deployed covertly.

Withoutnever having to make physical contact with, or alerting the subject! Those two aforementioned space age technologies, used in tandem and conjunction are, CAFR and thermal imagining.

CAFR (computer assisted facil recognition) picks up tell tale, micro facial movements too quick to register with the human eye!

And thermal imaging picks out the hot spots in the brain, whenever decption is contemplated or practiced.

Moreover, so accurate and reliable not even pathological liars can defeat itt, even though they can pass a ( piece of piss) polygraph without even raising a sweat or an eyebrow.

For all we know? May have been covertly deployed in the watch-house and or the courtroom?
Alan B.

.

The rise and fall of Cardinal Pell …

.

… reminds me of the rise and fall of DSK (Dominique Strauss-Kahn), who was poised to become the president of France in 2012. The previous year, a few months before the election, he was accused of a sexual assault by a house maid of a luxury hotel in Manhattan, New York. At the time, he was the president of the IMF (International Monetary Fund).

There are a number of factors that are common in the (mis)adventures of Cardinal Pell and DSK. Not the least of which are their remarkable g-factor and p-factor (general intelligence and psychopathology). They both became high-profile world leaders in their respective professional fields and seemed to consider they were invincible. Both high-flyers came crashing down to earth.

Were they truly seeking to dominate the weak and vulnerable – two 13 year-old choir boys for Cardinal Pell and a modest house maid for DSK – or were they perhaps consciously or unconsciously seeking to be dominated by those whom they perceived as among the most humble and insignificant of human beings, capable of satisfying their most profound desires ? Perhaps “Truth Seeker” on this thread has some ideas on that.

It is also interesting to note that Cardinal Pell and DSK, apart from pleading innocent, both remained silent during the investigations and court proceedings.

For those who may be interested, here is the article I published on OLO regarding DSK’s (mis)adventure in September 2011 :

http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=12548&page=0

.

Psychopathology is the scientific study of mental disorders, including efforts to understand their genetic, biological, psychological, and social causes; develop classification schemes (nosology) which can improve treatment planning and treatment outcomes; understand the course of psychiatric illnesses across all stages of development; more fully understand the manifestations of mental disorders; and investigate potentially effective treatments.

Is Mise,

I can't help wondering if there's ever going to
be a point where you say:

" You know what? You're right, I was talking out of my ass
back there."

Somehow I doubt it.

It's all very much about your attempt to dominate the
conversation.

A lot of you people seem to think he's innocent...
- Stop listening to the corporate media narrative and start reading the fine print.

Demonic Possession Of The Vatican Exposed - Leo Zagami Interview
http://youtu.be/WdocdfR1H1M

Leo Zagami About Coup Taking Place In The Vatican As Cardinal Pell Stands Trial
http://youtu.be/cWmDje8lMns

Cardinal Pell finally in prison like his pedophile mentor Gerald Ridsdale
http://leozagami.com/2019/02/27/cardinal-pell-finally-in-prison-like-his-pedophile-mentor-gerald-ridsdale/

Foxy,

"I can't help wondering if there's ever going to
be a point where you say:

" You know what? You're right, I was talking out of my ass
back there."

You spent too long in the US; how would my donkey talk?

But you're right I'm never going to say that I was talking out of my ass, I'm not a ventriloquist.

Bye the way, could it be that you are so naive as to imagine that a paedophile priest would care two hoots about false swearing?

Is Mise,

I've spent more time travelling all over,
than in the US.

You ask - how would your donkey talk?

The donkey heard that the book of the Bible gives
wisdom.
He ate it.

Never take advice from a donkey.

You say that you're not a ventriloquist?

I didn't realise you're the dummy.

As for Cardinal Pell not wanting to swear on the Bible
in court?

I imagine because of his religious beliefs and training
that is something that despite his illness he would
definitely still want to avoid doing.
You're welcome to disagree.

He should be happy to swear on the bible and speak the truth.
- Failure to do this and alarm bells should be ringing -

Somethings smelling like bs again...

It should be fairly obvious the reason he's not willing to swear on the bible;
- Because he's NOT going to TELL THE TRUTH; he knows he intends to LIE.

- The simplest answer is usually correct -

Don't any of you people have a built-in bs detector?
Sometimes I really wonder whats happened to this country.

We used to be wise, on the ball, not suffer fools...

What the bloody hell happened...

Foxy,

"I imagine because of his religious beliefs and training
that is something that despite his illness he would
definitely still want to avoid doing"

Do you mean that because of his religious training he would be far less likely to commit the sin of paedophilia, than the lesser sin of false swearing?

As a professed Catholic, you would know this, if you don't then consult your parish priest and he'll put you right.

Armchair,

Ditto (in the main).

alan B,

"Unbeatable space age lie detection is a combination of two ttechnlogies and has the advantage of being able to be deployed
coveertly.

Withoutnever having to make physical contact with, or alerting the subject! Those two aforementioned space age technologies, used in tandem and conjunction are, CAFR and thermal imagining."

Article:

"New Frontiers for Applications of Thermal Infrared Imaging Devices: Computational Psychopshysiology in the Neurosciences"
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5469647/

It's a long paper but well worth the read; the possibility of misreadings of the subject are numerous, don't let your enthusiasm get the better of your critical thinking.

Just Google "cafr (computer assisted facial recognition)"
for some insight into the drawbacks of this technology.

Perhaps the conversation could get back to a discussion of the original article's ideas regarding the paradoxes, ironies and martyrdom aspects of this case?

Is Mise,

He can't swear on the Bible
due to his religious training and faith.
He can't tell the truth.

He's avoided doing so thus far.

Foxy,

Did your parish priest tell you that?

A defendant does not take an oath in any form unless they are going to be in the witness box.A defendant is not obliged to testify it is up to the prosecution to prove their case because the defendant in any trial is considered innocent of all charges until the decision of a jury. If it can be proved on appeal that a jury was denied access to material which could have led to a different finding the judges may them quash the verdict all together and calss it as unsound. This is normal legal practice and a safeguard against a miscarriage of justice taking place.The Lindy Chamberlain case is a clear example of a miscarriage of justice having taken place.She was initially found guilty amid a frenzy of media build up and a huge amount of public speculation and to put it bluntly prejudice, gossip and bigotry.

Is Mise,

No, a higher authority did! (smile).

Foxy,

Do you consider the crime of paedophilia to be less than the crime of false swearing?

If you do then your education in Catholicism is sadly deficient.

Look up Christ's "Suffer the little children..."

Is Mise,

Lol!

Foxy,

It is truly nice to see you and others giving Cardinal Pell such a boost, there are not many people around who consider that he is such an upstanding person that he would not lie under oath, and here was me thinking that you were against him.

Well done all.

Is Mise,

You really are getting desperate.

How exactly am I giving the Cardinal a boost?

You obviously don't have a clue as to what's
being inferred.

Foxy,

You took my above post seriously; poor girl.

Is Mise,

That's because I know you so well!

You push and push and then back-pedal.

It's so much fun.

Lol.

Have a look at this https://quadrant.org.au/opinion/qed/2019/04/the-fanciful-testimony-that-convicted-george-pell/

I think that this rubbish case is starting to become a bit clearer.

Whatever the secret 'victim' believes, it is quite clear that nothing of the FINAL polished statement made to the police matches reality; it is a total fraud or delusion take your pick!

The one thing that has been clear from the start is that it is a totally unsafe conviction! Pell still has a couple of months in jail for something that never could have resulted in a fair conviction. It patently ought never to have gone to trial and it will not return to a trial. For the sake of all of us, Pell must win this appeal.

This is not how pedophiles carry on and it was idiocy or worse for the police to have brought this shameful case to trial and just as importantly a monumental failure of the ABC to let their 'journos' get away with such a scandalous beat up.

I was troubled from the very beginning about this case and like patrickmul found my initial scepticism regarding this case given further credence by the Quadrant report.
Whether you love, respect or hate the Cardinal he had the right to a fair judicial process instead he was subjected to a campaign of vilifaction going on for years in certain sections of the media. The justifiable deep anger about the actions of evil men and women right across every section of society from within families to work places educational venues and places of religious worship does not justify the abandonment of long held traditions of justice. To be able to convict an individual on the basis of an uncorroborated far fetched piece of testimony from an accuser whose identity remained anonymous going back 20 years puts every citizen at peril.Not only was the testimony uncorroborated it was denied by the other alleged victim