Hello. Who started the terror? Not non-Muslims, who have been “angry and afraid’ of Islamic terror for a very long time now. It's a given that terror and violence, no matter who the perpetrator is, is wrong; but did Muslims seriously think that there would no retaliation eventually from people on the other side who were fed up with the cowardice and incompetence of Western 'leaders’. Those who live by the sword, die by the sword. 50 people were killed in New Zealand by an Australian terrorist. Thousand and thousands of people throughout the world have been killed by Muslim terrorist over decades.

Your 'anger’ is sickeningly hypocritical. Your mention of ‘OUR doorstep’ when speaking of Syria etc, speaks volumes about your attitude to the country you actually live in.

The problem with white supremacists? Is that there are far too many of them in our midst along with, their right-wing, Hansenite sympathisers?

As the Nazis/Fascists did in the thirties,( some of them seemingly devout Sunday morning Christians) latch on to community dissatisfaction and marginalisation!
To progress political ambitions and the acquisition of power!

While many of us are horrified by this mindless slaughter! We don't resile from a view that Christian culture and sword-wielding Islam are mutually exclusive inculcated belief systems!

And cannot allow that this mindless slaughter be used by activists to push acceptance of an alien medieval culture that craves (like an addicted power junkie) wherever it goes, to be the (must be) dominant culture?

Sorry for your loss! Pax vobiscum.
Alan B.

I can well understand the author's fears following this brural attack. The incident took place in the context of a certain amount of anti-Muslim sentiment associated with reactions to attacks by Islamic terrorists in western countries, including Australia.

I, however, don't agree with the statement that "this was not a random lone wolf attack. It was an organized, terror cell". All the investigations so far indicate that the gunman acted alone and nobody else has been changed. To date there is no evidence of any terror cell beyond the gunman himself.

'Will the PM do the same this time and call upon the White Australian community "to do more" to combat radicalized Australian Christians and to identify them to police?'

actually Kuranda the offender went to a state high school and called himself an eco facist. I hope you know your own religion a little better than Chritianity. You really don't seem to have much of a clue like the left in this country who are extremly naive or just outright dishonest.

Maybe being afraid is a good thing. I don't agree with what the gunman did, and am sorry for you and your community's loss. However, I honestly don't think that the Muslim community is grasping the fear that comes from repeated Islamic terrorists.

Be afraid. So that you understand the fear. In hopes that you will not let this happen again from fellow Muslims, or either agree or remain silent when they act in criminal and terrorist ways.

When my son was randomly attacked by a bunch of 4 gutless Muslims while walking home from the railway station, in the quiet Sydney suburb of Allawah, the police could not get any of the residents who saw it happen, even admit they had seen it, let alone identify the attackers.

When Muslim citizens are as interested in stopping such attacks on ordinary Australians by Muslims, I might become more interested in the wellbeing of Muslims.

In the meanwhile, while I deplore that it is usually the innocent that suffer in this type of attack I will always think of my son, lying on the ground being kicked in the head by 4 gutless wonder Muslims, simply for living in a suburb they wanted as a Muslim enclave, rather than any Muslim victim.

Kuranda Seyit you are reaping what some of your people have sewn. Once you are prepared to help stamp out Muslin violence, you will have more chance of having us all help stamp out any directed towards you.

A number of years ago I took a good friend of mine to the Police who had been raped by a muslim who she met at uni. Unlike Pell the fact their was no witness's she was not encouraged to proceed with any charges. How many 'white' women this guy had his way with I don't know. I find it incredible that Arden would put on a head dress symbolising women's submission when the feminist bark so loudly at any hint of it in Christianity. Personally I have no issues with women willingly submitting to husbands and loving wives. Any biblical Christian realises that God appoints man as head of the woman. The hypocrisy of the left though astounds me.

Spare me the crocodile tears, Kuranda Surit. Portraying Muslims as peace loving innocent victims of white racism, is as phony as National Socialists blaming the Jews because people don't like them.

Reform your terrorism promoting religion. When in Rome, do as the Romans do. If you form ethnic enclaves and refuse to assimilate. If your young men continue to act aggressively towards Australians. If your suburbs are notorious for their high levels of welfare dependency and violent criminal behaviour. If your community tolerates terrorism. If you demand your host country always change our laws to suite your backward religion. And if your religious leaders blame everybody else but their own religious scriptures for the violent religious fanaticism your religion promotes, then don't cry when those who fear and loath Muslims become more numerous

Islam has reached its peak ! It can not go any further, because peace is more desirable than conflict.

I agree generally with those who have already written that some kind of retaliation was going to happen, and have said so on my website (donaitkin.com). Just a little correction: members of parliament and senators are not 'officials', but elected representatives. Indeed, they cannot be officials by law.

Political commentators are telling us that the
white nationalist movement is spreading worldwide
pushing lone-wolf attacks as well as organised
attacks such as the one we've seen recently. The
live-streamed massacre of now 50 in New Zealand
mosques underlines the reach of the movement that
preaches imagined "European ideals," and white
nationalism, rejects immigration, and shares vicious
threats and attacks over the internet. Mr Anning
in our parliament and some on this forum represent
this kind of perverted thinking.

Well might we ask where does all this come from and
why? How did we get here? The following link
might help us to understand:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/mar/17/australians-are-asking-how-did-we-get-here-well-islamophobia-is-practically-enshrined-as-public-policy

We must urgently make a case for a new humanist politics in
which your character and humanity count for more than our skin,
colour, heritage, sexuality, gender, religion, or age.

The war of identities must end, whether it is in public life
or blood stained places of worship.

Foxy This is the 3rd time you have posted the link to the exact same article by this biased author Jason Wilson.

If he is all you can come up with and you have to post it on 3 threads it shows you are biased as well.

When challenged on this before part of Foxy's reply was.
"However, it's usually customary in debating intelligently not to stoop to personal attacks"

NOW here is an example of that statement being put into practice.

Quote "Give it a rest you nasty old coot! You're beginning to piss me off big time!" Posted by Foxy, Monday, 4 February 2019 12:17:13 PM

Foxy Logic - You will follow my advice and do as I say BUT I don't have to follow my own advise.

Foxy Logic will continue when appropriate.

Waleed Aly put it so well when he said words to
the effect that -

" Everything we say to try to tear people apart,
divide people, demonise particular groups, set them
against each other, that all has consequences
even if we're not the ones with our fingers on the
trigger."

Here's another link that explains what's happening
in our country :

http://theconversation.com/how-believers-in-white-genocide-are-spreading-their-hate-filled-message-in-australia/106605

Foxy,

Again with the wailing and gnashing of teeth? Most people are perfectly happy with legal skills based immigration irrespective of their colour or religion. Similarly they are not happy with people of similar heritage entering illegally. So you first premise is punctured.

Secondly, the question that has to be asked is why is there Islamaphobia, and no hindu, budda, or shinto phobia. The answer is simple, for their 2% of the population Muslims are vastly over represented in terrorism statistics in Australia. Of the 85 people arrested for terrorism related offenses nearly all have been muslim. That the overwhelming majority of muslims are conscientious and diligent citizens, their image is poisoned by a tiny minority.

For people on the street it is easy to see why they would feel that these attacks are aimed at them, and for those tiny few on the extreme for whom rationality is not a strong point muslims are an obvious target.

Finally, trying to pin the attack on all conservatives is as stupid as trying to blame all left whingers for the tens of millions killed in the name of socialism.

Foxy and her links AAAAAAGAIN. You have really outdone youself with this one.

Here is what you will find on the page.

Oops, we couldn't find the page you were looking for.

Foxy,

Another quote from Waleed. This time after an Islamic attack:

"Terrorism is a perpetual irritant, and that while it is tragic and emotionally laceration, it kills relatively few people and is not any kind of existential threat. They do not shock us, and for that reason, they cannot terrorise us."

Shadow Minister So from Waleed Aly we have this quote "Terrorism is a perpetual irritant, and that while it is tragic and emotionally laceration, it kills relatively few people"

** FACT CHECK ** Foxy loves fact checks

List of Islamist terrorist attacks - by Foxy's favorite

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Islamist_terrorist_attacks

** Thousands of dead and thousands injured. **

Foxy Please explain or is this another EPIC FAIL.

Shadow Minister,

Google Waleed Aly's transcript of the speech he
made on Friday after the NZ attack. It's worth
a read in full.

Also -

For anyone interested in reading the link I
gave earlier from the conversation - anyone
with any intelligence can Google for themselves -

" how believers in white genocide
are spreading their hate-filled message in Australia."
to access the link.

It's not brain surgery.

Philip S.,

Here's the link especially for you dear heart -
as you seem unable to work things out:

http://theconversation.com/how-believers-in-white-genocide-are-spreading-their-hate-filled-message-in-australia-106605

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3962366/Islamic-leader-Kuranda-Seyit-claims-NEVER-terrorist-attack-Australia.html

So, all those plots that Police have managed to foil do not qualify ?

Speaking of hate, let's talk about anger. Mathew 5:22-26 has a good few lessons regarding anger, but one of them is this:

<<Settle matters quickly with your adversary who is taking you to court. Do it while you are still together on the way, or your adversary may hand you over to the judge, and the judge may hand you over to the officer, and you may be thrown into prison. Truly I tell you, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny.>>

Here's the lesson again through the lens of life experience. Listen to people when they are angry with you. Usually there is a reason for their anger. It isn't about hatred and blown up reactions, it's about settling the matters that they have against you. It is also a time when their anger will provoke in them an honesty that they might usually not say. So listen to them again when they are angry because you'll find the things that they have against you to confront or to correct.

In this case the anger and hatred against Muslims has a consistent source. One that is not even looked at usually by the media or the politicians. Which only deepens the wound when we're talking about criminal mobs and terrorists. The media and the political ideology is to see the terrorists and violent mobs as the victims and that no anger should reach them. In this article even the issue is the retaliation of an angry extremist, that demands action from all right wing supporters to clean up their act. The hypocrisy and irony of this is that this violent act could have been avoided if the Islamic world did as the article demands right wing supporters to do. If they cleaned up their own act and had no violence in their communities to be a danger to the public, then there would be no angry opposition at their doorsteps that killed 50 people.

.... Also. The current line that terrorist don't kill that often and talk of small risk, is talk of usurping justice and ignoring crime. This is horrible logic, and will only fuel hatred to those who have cause for their anger. For the victims and the surviving communities to have no available action because any action they take to rectify the sitution is met with, "don't worry about it, these are rare things, and we're not going to try and stop them from happening."

Don't you all see that this will just add anger and hatrered because of removing justice and to ignore wrongs done to them. If FOXY or anyone else is really against hatred then they should purge the logic of terrorism being a rare crime from their minds. The use of that logic is both very wrong and full of error, as well as a source to fuel hateful reactions.

Do not quote it again and remove it from your left leaning lexicon of phrases. It is harmful to justice and a fuel to counter measures of hate.

Just an FYI.

The spectacle brigade's fake stand against hate are gradually exposing themselves & their insidious agenda !
They are the cause !

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-03-19/sky-news-christchurch-mosque-shooting-live-stream/10912844

I wonder what her reaction was to atrocities committed against Westerners by extremists ?
Did she just say the standard "not all Muslims are like that" or did she actually speak up & condemn the violence ?
Why do we never get to hear or read or see such reactions ? Did she ever express concern what the extremists among her people would eventual bring upon themselves & her people ?
What she doesn't acknowledge is that her people aren't judged by being Muslim, they're judged by what they do & say & don't do & should be saying. Does she expect non Muslims to simply sit back & think "ah well, not all Muslims are bad". I'm afraid non mUslims are just as offended by Muslim atrocities as Muslims are about non Muslim atrocities.
There is no difference in being a victim but there is a huge difference if only one side is allowed to object !

Foxy,

Considering that the shooter only spent about 6 weeks in Aus in the last few years, and the indications are that he was radicalised in Europe and not here.

This means that all the wailing from the left whingers on this site about Islamophobia in Aus being the cause is a pile of bollocks.

Secondly Sadiq Khan like Waleed also tried to normalise terrorism as just something city dwellers must get used to.

Note that recently there has been a bombing of a cathedral in Jakarta by muslims with 20 dead and 200 christians killed in Nigeria by Muslims and not one peep from the left whingers.

While this is a tragedy perpetrated by a monster, it is only one of many most of which are ignored.

Shadow Minister,

What needs to be examined and not ignored is
that there is a white nationalist movement that is spreading worldwide pushing lone-wolf attacks. The live-streamed
massacre of now 50 in New Zealand mosques underlines the
reach of the movement that preaches imagined "European
ideals" which rejects immigration and shares vicious
threats and attacks over the internet. You only have to
look at Mr Anning's comments, and those of some here on the
forum, of people like Blair Cottrell and Neil Erikson, et al,
to see what's happening here.

The whole point being made is that - as Waleed Aly stated
in part of his speech '

"We must urgently make a case for a new humanist politics
in which your character and humanity count for more than
your religion, skin colour, and heritage. The war of
identities must end, whether its in public life or blood
stained places of worship."

Foxy,

There have always been left and right wing extremists, and for the most part they limit themselves to minor things like walking around with flags or signs, or go for minor violence like leaving a pigs head or egging someone.

When the government becomes more left whinge, the extremists on the right get more vocal, when the government is conservative the extremists on the left get more vocal. In Europe many governments have swung to the left with Merkel essentially issuing an open invitation to illegal immigrants and with Islamist violence a backlash was predictable.

The question is not what will those on the fringe do? If one stops them having a say, they will probably express themselves in a different manner.

The problem is that our authorities are scared speechless that this could be the start of a civil war. They know full well how violent many Muslims are & are scared of retaliatory attacks by Muslims, as has happened in many parts of the world.

They also know that ANZACS in particular, are slow to real anger & response, but are probably the most dangerous of all citizens once properly aroused. Any retaliatory attack by Muslims now would lead to a major reaction by ordinary citizens. Beirut here we come?

They also know that despite attempts to feminise the defence forces, ours would not support any action by government against citizens.

It is this fear that led to the disgusting sight of that silly little girl in NZ donning a black headscarf, & making a fool of herself.

It is a major worry that this bloke could get to the stage to do this, & not be on the radar of either countries security people. Perhaps we need to do some work on improving our security systems & people.

Shadow Minister,

Totally agree.

Hasbeen,

"It is a major worry that this bloke could get to the stage to do this, & not be on the radar of either countries security people. Perhaps we need to do some work on improving our security systems & people."

Spot on, security has egg on its collective face.

Dear Hassie,

New Zealand needs to take another look at its
gun laws as well as its security.

Foxy,

Perhaps bring their gun laws into line with Mexico, which has very strict gun laws.

Is Mise,

Like so many aspects of life in Mexico - gun-control
is a bit of a joke - as I'm sure you know. If you
don't (who am I to question your sincerity?) then
Google it

is Mise,
I wonder how many Muslims Mexico has taken in ?

Ok, no takes on that one. How about how many refugees have the Arab countries taken in & look after them like most Europeans do ?

Foxy's points.

Foxy 1. "What needs to be examined and not ignored is that there is a white nationalist movement that is spreading worldwide pushing lone-wolf attacks."

a. If this movement exists, what is it's name?
b. Where has this un named movement been "pushing lone wolf attacks?"
c. What needs to be examined and not ignored is that there is an organised religion called Islam who preaches terrorism to expand it's control. Foxy prefers to not examine and ignore it.

Foxy 2. "The live-streamed massacre of now 50 in New Zealand mosques underlines the reach of the movement that preaches imagined "European ideals" which rejects immigration and shares vicious threats and attacks over the internet."

a. Foxy's belief is that Europeans have no cultural ideals and they have no right to defend them.
b. Anyone who rejects Islamic immigration leading eventually to European social suicide is akin to a terrorist

Foxy 3. "You only have to look at Mr Anning's comments, and those of some here on the
forum, of people like Blair Cottrell and Neil Erikson, et al,to see what's happening here."

a. Fraser Anning simply pointed out the obvious, multiculturalism and especially Islamic immigration is not working.
b. "What is happening here" is happening in every European country. We are sick and tired of Muslims and the terrorism, crime, welfare dependency, and other problems they import with them.

Foxy 4. The whole point being made is that - as Waleed Aly stated
in part of his speech '

What Walid Ali says is pure hypocrisy. He belongs to a religion which divides the world into Muslims and everybody else. He refuses to accept that it is entirely the fault of his own religions written holy scriptures that are responsible for the Muslim extremism leading to mass murders, seen almost nightly on the news. Instead his words drip with humanitarian platitudes, and Foxy, who so desperately wants to believe him, laps it up.

The Christchurch massacre is simply a Allah given excuse for Islamic leaders to play the oppressed victims instead of the usual oppressing perpetrators.

The real infidels are rubbing their hands.

Adern has become a convenient Hologram for the vision-less !

Onya Hasbeen

To Alan B.

I know of no white supremacists in Australia at all, except perhaps for the Australian Nationalist Socialist Party, which I had always thought went extinct in the 1980's? You are implying that people who vote for Pauline Hanson approve of National Socialism? Could you provide any reference that the One Nation Party or it's supporters are anti democratic Socialists who approve of the Nationalist brand of Socialism?

"I am a Socialist, but a different kind of Socialist to Councillor Ensler." Adolph Hitler.

The anti democratic Socialists of the National, International, Trotskyist, and Menshevic variety have always "latched onto dissatisfied and marginalised" people, Alan. So have democratic politicians of the right. And your point was?

You are right that Christianity and Islam are mutually exclusive belief systems. Christianity is based upon pacifism. Islam is a warriors religion based upon the belief that expanding Islam through violence and terror is a good thing. And that non Muslims are untermenschen, women are inferior and the chattels of men, and people who want to leave Islam should be murdered. Why you would want to import people into this country with that mindset is completely beyond me.

Islam and democracy are also mutually exclusive ideologies, Alan. So are the various forms of socialism and democracy. So let the International Socialists, the National Socialists, and the Muslims live in their own countries, and as long as they don't try to take the territories of other nations by force, let them wallow in their own ignorance, self destructive political systems, and poverty. Don't invite them into democratic Australia to stir up resentment and spread their social poison here.

And if you falsely label "Hansonites" as National Socialist sympathisers for opposing Islamic immigration, then all you are achieving is greatly enhancing the image of National Socialists in the eyes of the Australian public.