Armchair Critic,

<<Why would God give you touch, taste, sight, smell and hear, as well as a brain;
And then expect you to betray those gifts for faith alone?
I CAN'T touch God,
I CAN'T taste God,
I CAN'T see God,
I CAN'T smell God and
I CAN'T hear God;
Also my Brain says 'I Don't Know'>>

The God of all knowledge, power and understanding (Prov 1:7; 2:6; 29:15) has made us holistic beings. You've listed the physical characteristics but have forgotten the unseen parts in all human beings.

You focussed on the physical that will all pass away as Jesus said: "Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away" (Matt 24:35).

I don't need to touch, taste, smell and hear Round-Up to know what it can do as a poison.

Coming to Christ by grace through faith (Eph 2:8-9) does not mean that the other physical attributes I have are abandoned. You have missed the connection between grace and faith and a human beings soul/spirit. In side you, you have this dimension to life, but in your example above, you've missed that out.

Do you know God's reason why you don't want to come to Him for eternal life?

Armchair Critic,

<<All I'm really willing to share is that I had it forced upon me as a child because a of a parents remarriage.
If you knew that backstory then my positions would probably make more sense to you.>>

That's enough to give me some understanding of your resistance.

One minute after your last breath, I wonder if this will be your sentiment: <<Why because I'll be dead? Lol>>

Not true! You'll be alive as never before but in a different location: "Everyone must die once. Then they are judged" (Heb 9:27). You may laugh it off but that's the reality of what you'll face.

<<There you 'believers' go again. You're attempting to make your belief my belief>>

Can't we engage in a discussion about eternal matters that you seem to have missed in the kinds of comments you make?

Or is the case closed and you don't want to discuss further with others and me?

<<"You have nothing to lose and everything to gain" they claim.>>

That's not my statement or what I think. However, if you don't want to talk with me about spiritual matters, I'm happy to leave it at that. Or are you prepared to discuss these issues further?

Yuyutsu,

<<Knowing God ends all suffering.>>

That's as you see it from your worldview. The facts are that I've had pain throughout my long life, starting with 3 bouts of rheumatic fever as a child right through to 5 open-heart, valve replacement surgeries.

To say that my knowing God has ended my suffering, including a stroke and its aftermath, flies in the face of reality. You're promoting an illusion.

God has not ended suffering in my Christian life but he has used it for His purposes:

"My brothers and sisters, whenever you face trials of any kind, consider it nothing but joy, because you know that the testing of your faith produces endurance; and let endurance have its full effect, so that you may be mature and complete, lacking in nothing." (James 1:2-4).

Thus, it is false to say that God ends all suffering, unless you mean after death.

In this life, there is a purpose in trials and suffering for Christian believers. God uses difficulties to mature our trust in God.

Dear OzSpen,

First, your conclusion: «In this life, there is a purpose in trials and suffering for Christian believers. God uses difficulties to mature our trust in God.»

Is true for everyone, not only for Christian believers.

«To say that my knowing God has ended my suffering, including a stroke and its aftermath, flies in the face of reality.»

There is difference between knowing God and having information ABOUT God. The information may be correct and wonderful to have, but it is still only information, it is still only on an intellectual/theoretical level: an analogy would be the difference between passing a driving theory test and actually knowing to drive. Knowing God Himself is a total and direct experience beyond anything which words can describe. Such knowledge ends all suffering.

«Thus, it is false to say that God ends all suffering, unless you mean after death.»

Whether you continue to live or die after knowing God, is truly up to God, depending on whether you still have a calling in this world to serve others who still suffer. As far as you are concerned, once you know God, life or death, pleasure or pain, are all the same, you no longer care about it either way.

To Armchair Critic.

Sorry for the delay in response. Late night early(ish) morning syndrome has limited my time outside of work towards sleep. Hope you understand.

I get what your saying about not understanding something, and therefore not taking a stand on it in either direction. I do this often on many things that I know I'm not a expert on nor affected by it. Such as a health condition of someone else. They can take a side because it's their health, and they can determine if they believe the doctors and medical research on a matter, or to trust themselves and others who have gone through that specific health condition. (Hopefully the doctors and patients agree, but not always). Without some insight on the matter it is easy to just say I don't know, and leave the matter be.

However there are things that you and I know. You can't be a fence sitter on everything. We have things we have learned the hard way, or theories we've been taught and then tested them to know they are true. Think of it like this. If a person is an electrician, their knowledge and experience forms their knowledge base on their trade. Not knowing that trade doesn't help someone see clearly what to do if they want to add a light switch to their wall. Instead they should either hire an electricity on to help because they do have knowledge on the matter, or the person should look into the matter themself in order to gain some foundation before jumping into the project.

(Continued)

(Continued)

You do know somethings. If you claimed to know something and I called you delusional, without even hearing what you've got to say, then I'd bet you'd be able to understand where I'm coming from. The claim that they might be mentally ill, (or even your additive "maybe just as likely"), is a means to avoid the topic by discrediting the person before hearing what they have to say.

I wouldn't say the position of "I don't know" is a better position because you can't really know. No, I would actually say the opposite. If I can find God, there's no reason you can't find Him too. It's not just a faith and belief thing. Some aspects are that I believe and have faith because of what I've seen.

....Sorry if I got long winded earlier. It's not because I'm backed into a corner. But more because I've heard the term and accusation before, and have developed my thoughts on the matter. I have a similar long winded view on teaching your kids your religion is a form of child abuse. Basically in my opinion whether the subject is mental illness, child abuse, or any other negative slogan to get a point across, I really don't agree with the idea of tossing those terms out there when they aren't accurate. Even worse when those terms aren't affected by religion to cause any of them.