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The Forum > Article Comments > Where the jobs will be in 2023 > Comments

Where the jobs will be in 2023 : Comments

By Ross Elliott, published 7/12/2018

The figures released by the Federal Government show an economy increasingly reliant on jobs growth in two major cities, but not in the city centres of those cities.

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Aidan Looks like we will have to disagree, time will tell who was right.

Quote "We're capable of high value work that they're not." Examples please.

Australia used to have the manufacturing capacity and made lots of products, what is made in Australia today, very very little.

The main thing we have are holes in the ground from the minerals we sell, but at a lower rate of tax going to the Government than other countries.

The wages in Asia will not rise to anywhere near ours for a very long time.
Posted by Philip S, Sunday, 9 December 2018 2:11:31 AM
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My great great granddaddy drove a horse and cart as did his great great granddaddy before him and his before him and his before him.

Just because that's the way we've allus done things doesn't make them superior. "Cool burns" do not return the nutrients to the soil they extracted them from, and as the same ground is burned year on year more and more of those scarce nutrients are lost forever as experienced in the cane industry!

Even as they increased and increased superphosphate applications the recoverable sugar content systematically reduced. Moreover, repeated burns particularly those where a wind whips up from nowhere that turns an allegedly "cool burn" into a raging conflagration, burning all before it and often in country that fire crews can't traverse, Leaves the ground baked like clay pipes and mostly impervious to water.

So the net effect of centuries of burning has been to turn the once verdant forestland into a vast internal desert. And inhabited by folk inculcated from a brainwashed birth to believe that their practice is somehow looking after the land that they also stole from those here before them.

Even as they claim unbroken lineage dating back sixty thousand years, even as the oral record of most of our people would describe it as, closer to fourteen, for today's mainland indigenous population. Just because we've allus done it that way doesn't make it, best practice, or even intelligent care.
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Sunday, 9 December 2018 8:38:42 AM
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Phillip clearly has his knickers in a knot as he wonders who will pay folk to work newly irrigated land?

Well old son, who pays our farming families now? As they EARN their income from the sweat of their brow and bent aching backs.

All that it takes to earn money from land is, just add water.

And then use (intensive very short term) grazing animals, with fattened value on the hoof, to reduce fuel load. And doable even in open unfenced pasture, with watering points that can be turned off as others are turned on, remotely.

Time to get into the technological age and out of the stone age old son!

Adian is on the public record suggesting that we pump treated effluent absolutely loaded with organic plant nutrient way-way inland and use that water to irrigate new farmland production.

And not as impractical as some might suggest, if the huge energy bill that would come with pumping it over hill and dale, could be contained by power prices topping out at 2 cents or less per KwH.

And far better all round for the environment than flushing millions of annual tons into our oceans, where it does nothing but harm!

I'd imagine if Phillip had been around before we built the Snowy mountain scheme, it would have never ever been built?

Because he would have demonstrated with his skill with raw numbers why it couldn't be done and why we couldn't pay for all the folk we'd have to import to build it!

Left up to "experts" like Phillip, we'd still be living in caves, running our food down with a stone tied to a stick!?
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Sunday, 9 December 2018 9:04:47 AM
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Alan B - Quote "Well old son, who pays our farming families now? As they EARN their income from the sweat of their brow and bent aching backs. All that it takes to earn money from land is, just add water."

So you want a few million farmers, first the Government would have to set up the farm as very very very few migrants with over 1 million dollars would even want to be farmers, where are you going to find the people that would be willing to work "from the sweat of their brow and bent aching backs". I can assure you one thing this quote from you is absolutely wrong "All that it takes to earn money from land is, just add water."

I would also guarantee that if the Government was to offer the people on the dole a farm in the middle of nowhere that they had to work on they would be lucky if even 1 in 1,000 took up the offer.

Don't forget you are pumping the water to reclaimed in the middle of Australia, the heat alone would turn most off let alone the isolation,
Did you factor in higher petrol prices and the vast distances to anywhere into you thinking, bet you did not.

** Adian is on the public record suggesting that we pump treated effluent absolutely loaded with organic plant nutrient way-way inland and use that water to irrigate new farmland production. **
Good luck finding people who want to live there, they are on the coastline.

Quote "And not as impractical as some might suggest, if the huge energy bill that would come with pumping it over hill and dale, could be contained by power prices topping out at 2 cents or less per KwH."

Add hundreds of millions of dollars to subsidize them.

Quote "Left up to "experts" like Phillip, we'd still be living in caves, running our food down with a stone tied to a stick!?"
When a person has to resort to something like that they really have nothing to add to a discussion.
Posted by Philip S, Sunday, 9 December 2018 5:36:43 PM
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Aidan just which planet do you live on? It can't be this one or you would have knowledge of what happens with government organised farming. The Chinese commune farms starved millions.

You could also check out USSR industry, & what happened to it. Still dream on, just don't get anything like them going here, our governments can stuff up enough already.

You just may be living on the same planet Alan. Burning green cane had no effect on the soil, & not much on the cane, it was just the trash being burned.

What does effect the nutrient level of cane farms is the entire product of the soil is removed & taken to the sugar mill. Unlike grain, vegetable or fruit, much more of the nutrients that was used to grow the plant are removed.

Today tons of this in the form of mill mud is returned to the farm, on trucks delivering it & spreading at tons to the acre. Sugar is still a very hungry crop, so lots of fertiliser is often added to the mill mud at the mill. There is also some movement to return the bagasse, currently used to power the mill, & generate what is considered "GREEN" energy, at huge cost to the farm land.

Even the Tee tree & Lemon Myrtle oil industry is waking up to fact that removing large quantities of mass from a plantation is actually mining the soil of the nutrients used in it's production. Unfortunately you can't drive a spreading truck over a tree plantation the way you can over a cane field
Posted by Hasbeen, Sunday, 9 December 2018 6:37:56 PM
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Philip S,
Why settle for disagreement? I'd highlighted some logical flaws you based your argument on - are you really too stupid to admit you were wrong?

>Examples please.
Australia is the world leader in field robotics, and pretty good at biotech as well.

>Australia used to have the manufacturing capacity and made lots of products,
Putting things together used to be valuable, but now it's generally become a low value activity. Nowadays the value has shifted to the intellectual property. Putting things together is hardly worth anything, but knowing how to make them is still worth a lot.

>what is made in Australia today, very very little.
Though the manufacturing sector is much smaller than it used to be, it is still significant. And AIUI parts of it, including food manufacturing, have been growing in recent years. Indeed this year, as our dollar fell, more manufacturing has returned to Australia.

>The wages in Asia will not rise to anywhere near ours for a very long time.
Surely that depends which part of Asia? Japan's not very far behind us.

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Alan B.,
>Just because that's the way we've allus done things doesn't make them superior.
Of course.

>"Cool burns" do not return the nutrients to the soil they extracted them from,
Not 100%, but a lot more returns to the ground than goes up in smoke. Meanwhile birds return nutrients from the sea to the land, and farmers can add more nutrients when needed.

Burnoffs became necessary to prevent much bigger bushfires after the megafauna died out (which was at least partly due to humans). But the desertification long predated that.

>Adian is on the public record suggesting that we pump treated effluent absolutely loaded with
>organic plant nutrient way-way inland and use that water to irrigate new farmland production.
That's news to me! Could I see this record?
Recycling our effluent is common sense, but I find it very unlikely that I'd claim it was absolutely loaded with organic plant nutrient!
Posted by Aidan, Monday, 10 December 2018 1:05:41 AM
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