To Banjo Paterson,

Your comment on repentance caught my eye. Something I think is with talking about. Repent as I understand it is turning away from something. Regret is probably always there to motivate the change, but repenting isn't an understanding that you can't do anything about it, nor is it only a regret. It's a change in behavior. To turn from what you use to do.

In the context of Christianity repenting is usually also assoicated with confessing one's sins, or turning to God. But the act of repentance itself in my opinion is a needed element in everyday life. Know you hurt someone you love by your actions and say "no more, never again." Or see the results of your actions on your life and do it to a change. People do this when they make a drastic mistake that harms their family, or are in a spiraling habit of alochol abuse, or even in the cross hairs of getting older and have health concerns that drastically changes their diet to fend off diabetes.

In the cases of repenting of our sins, it's about actively turning from them. That's a good thing to do.

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Dear Yuyutsu,

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You wrote :

« It's the old story of the blind men who touched an elephant for the first time:

The one who touched the trunk said "Elephant is like a thick snake".
The one who touched the ear said: "Elephant is a kind of fan".
The one who touched a leg said: "Elephant is a pillar".
The one who touched the elephant's side said: "Elephant is a wall".
The one who touched the tail said: "Elephant is a rope".
The one who touched the tusk said: "Elephant is hard and smooth like a spear".

All six experienced the same elephant, and yet... »
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That sounds like the story of the snake in the Garden of Eden and the young Aboriginal boy.

It goes like this :

« The snake wriggled up the wall into the fan
The Aboriginal boy threw his rope around the pillar and climbed up the wall
He prodded the snake with his spear and it turned into an elephant

It takes six blind men to see the moral of the story for the first time … »
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You also wrote :

« Self-interest is like a smooth hard wall without a key … to break out. I might try to love others, but then I discover … that I only really did it for myself and no matter how lofty my ideas are, I cannot wilfully do anything unless I believe it to be for myself, even if it is in very indirect ways »

Next time, try taking a good, hard look at your conscious intentions, Yuyutsu - the ones you can clearly identify, analyse and control. Perhaps that is how you will find the key to your freedom from self-interest.

Anything that is unknown to your conscious mind cannot be a deliberate intention on your part, nor a wilful act of self-interest. Even if what you do, coincidentally, also happens to serve your own, personal interest, it is not an act of self-interest if it is not part of your conscious objective.

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Dear Not_Now.Soon,

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You wrote :

« Your comment on repentance caught my eye … Repent as I understand it is turning away from something. Regret is probably always there to motivate the change, but repenting isn't an understanding that you can't do anything about it, nor is it only a regret. It's a change in behavior. To turn from what you use to do »
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I think you are reading more into the meaning of the word than what is generally understood in the English language – independent of any religious influences, Not_Now.Soon.

Here is what the OED has to say :

Repentance : The action of repenting; sincere regret or remorse.

Repent : 1. Feel or express sincere regret or remorse about one's wrongdoing or sin.
2. [with object] View or think of (an action or omission) with deep regret or remorse.
3. repent oneself [archaic] Feel regret or penitence about.

Penitence : The action of feeling or showing sorrow and regret for having done wrong; repentance.

The additional meaning you inject into the word “repentance” sounds like a logical second step required by the Church – following “repentance" – but it is not part of the meaning of the word "repentance", per se.

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Fair enough Banjo Peterson. But to be fair your views on regret and repentance aren't matching the defination either. In your earlier post you matched repentance and regret with an incapacity in a person. Something I read as meaning being unable to change.

And with that in mind I see it differently. Even with the OED dictionary of repentance, deep sincere regret can lead to a great amount of healthy change.

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Dear. Not_Now Soon,

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You wrote :

« Even with the OED dictionary of repentance, deep sincere regret can lead to a great amount of healthy change »
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Of course it can, Not_Now.Soon, but whether the regret is “deeply sincere” or not does not change the meaning of the word “repentance”. It is, nevertheless, a fact that the so-called “regret” is all too often short-lived. As I indicated previously, a person who has repented often falls back into his or her same old ways.

Some people are incapable of controlling their natural impulses, aggressivity and propensity to do harm to others.

You will recall that I was commenting on runner’s post on page 4 of this thread. He wrote :

« Repentance and faith in Jesus Christ is the only sensible way to prepare for death. Eternity is a long time »

This incantation of the Christian rites of repentance, confession and absolution are what I liken to James Bond’s “licence to kill”. The Secret Service agent, 007, of the UK’s MI5 counter-espionage organisation disposed of a “licence to kill” in the defence of the State.

In a similar fashion, the Christian Church, perhaps inadvertently, grants its devotees a “licence to sin” through the mechanism of its rites of repentance, confession and absolution.

No need to control one’s natural impulses, aggressivity and propensity to do harm to others. That requires strength of character, will power, courage and self-control. It’s so much easier to give free reign to one’s instincts and have regrets after the fact – even shed a tear or two – and promise never to do it again. No need to accept the consequences of one’s acts. The Church grants its absolution, no doubt, in good faith. That’s all that matters – in heaven !

I hope this additional explanation clarifies my position on this matter a little better for you, Not_Now Soon, but please be assured that I am not seeking to convert you to my way of thinking.

These are my personal thoughts, though I suspect they are not all that original.

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