Roger

Thank you for your alarming article.

I heard about this on the radio recently, but I did not realise the implications that you have so clearly pointed out. Scarey stuff.

Cheers
Kay

yes.. there is always another side to the coin.

I heard today, that the greenies of Tasmania (you know... those tree lovers and huggers, who don't want you to cut down any tree) are up in arms about PLANTING native trees for plantations.. "Oh Oh.. they will suck up all the water.. shock horror"

So, the animal libbers who want chickens released and free ranged, would prefer we all die of bird flu or dioxin poisoning :)

Its a weird world.

If ur happy and u know it clap ur hands.... (doesn't seem so geeky now does it :)

Such an intemperate and ignorant response to an intelligent article. Yes, avian flu presents real risks that we need to address in our poultry management practices - in free range and battery systems alike. We have a dozen or so chooks that we move around the paddock in a moveable wire 'igloo' - protects them from predators and also keeps them & their tucker separate from migrating birds. They seem happy enough, as are we :) Battery poultry farming pens are inhumane, and present their own problems of disease and effluent control.

As for the silly gratuitous swipe at the Tasmanian 'greenies' - my understanding is that the objection is to replacing old growth ecosystems with plantations of native trees as some kind of quid pro quo under the new forest agreement. While any kind of vegetation will act as a 'carbon sink', the problem is the destruction of biodiversity in order to make woodchips. There's got to be better ways of making packaging and paper than destroying what remains of Tasmania's old growth forests, or replacing them with monocultural plantations.

Yes, avian flu is a threat, and the poultry industry will have to amend some of its practices, I guess - but that doesn't mean banning humane methods of poultry husbandry. In my view, constructive thinking isn't enhanced by gratuitous ranting in order to provoke others.

No fear MDuck, BOAZ does it deliberately (bit bored being a greenie), working undercover you see. Bit concerned about that nursery rhyme thing happening "if you're happy and you know it..". Sounds like he might have spent too long a time pretending to be a fundamentalist christian, and it's really getting to him :)

Good on you 2 (Minuet and Mahatma :) lets list the ad hominems:

1/ Ignorant
2/ Intemperate
3/ Gratuitous
4/ Silly

and that from Mahatma alone... very scholarly :)
I think you missed my slight tongue in cheek there.. somehow..

On a more serious note, I have no trouble giving a bit of a prod to greenies and animal libbers, because when you push them on their underlying philosopy, its pretty close to hinduism by stealth.

little pens ?= freee range..hmmm I know my chickens look happiest when they can wander wherever they want. Penning them outside doesn't seem so different from penning them inside.. just a change of diet.
To be honest, I would not call 'penning' chickens humane. Except for protecting them from my neighbours dog which despatched my rooster recently...

But what I heard on the news (and to which I was partly responding)
was that it was already cleared land, farmland which was objected to being re-vegetated with Eucalypts.

I advocate responsible stewardship of both animal and vegetative aspects of life, but I hope there is enough slack to have a bit of a dig at things at times.

Mahatma.. hope ur giving some serious thought to my very serious (in contrast to my post here) thoughts about other issues and social decay etc... hope to hear your lucid assessment soon

Ahem, Boaz... another corrective is needed. The adjectives you quote could be part of an 'ad hominem' argument if I was describing you, but since they were all descriptors of your comment rather than your person, they aren't.

Similarly, your statement that "I have no trouble giving a bit of a prod to greenies and animal libbers, because when you push them on their underlying philosopy, its pretty close to hinduism by stealth" is nothing short of ludicrous - notwithstanding my nom-de-plume!

Do you have any comments that are actually about the article?

Indonesian authorities are labelling the recent outbreak of bird flu in and around Jakarta which has caused several human fatalities an 'epidemic'.This was reported in ABC online today - www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200509/s1465425.htm.

The authorities though seem to think that the geographical isolation of the Indonesian archipelago will protect it from the bird flu spreading across Indonesia . However if the bird flu is spread by wild migratory birds the protection of the seas surrounding Java and the other heavily populated islands might be an illusion. Is there a clue in the finding that some of the people infected were not working with poultry but were working at the Jakarta zoo? Some of the exotic species of birds were found to be infected but the question is how they became infected? The worrying possibility is that it was through migratory wild bird that made a stopover at the Zoo on their migration to Australia.

With human overpopulation still being ignored, perhaps humans are the Earth's pathogens and Bird Flue is the antibody?

The latest issue of Nature ( Vol 437, 6/10/2005) contains some further alarming news derived from forensic DNA analysis of the extinct 1918 strain of avian influenza virus derived from preserved tissue samples of people that fell victims to the flu. The complete decoding of the three genes in the virus postulated to be critical to it jumping the species barrier and becoming airborne have revealed striking similarities with the comparable genes in the H5N1 strain.
The conclusions from these comparisons are; 1) that a flu virus of avian origin doesn't have to mix with a human influenza virus and pick up larger sections of the human virus genome to adapt to its’ new host. Just a few critical changes in the original genes are required. 2) H5N1 has already acquired a few of the same changes as the 1918 strain but not all of them.
The quest is now to introduce changes in the H5N1 strain, in a high security laboratory, based on what we know about the 1918 strain and see which of the remaining mutations are the critical ones. This information could be used to develop new vaccines targeting the critical regions specifically or possibly to create new anti-viral drugs that block the actions of the mutated genes. However it is a race against time. To buy some time we need to reduce the number of times the virus replicates in birds and acquire new changes. Infected birds need to be rapidly identified and culled in Indonesia and other of our countries in our region with large population of infected poultry. Wild birds need to be screened for novel types of H5N1. I hope that the meeting in Brisbane that Australia has called to discuss this situation with its neighbours will consider to take direct action in stopiing the bird flu at is source and at the same time fund research into the comparative study of the 1918 strain and the H5N1 strain

Er... haven't we been here before?

Can anyone remember..... SARS?

Weren't we told exactly the same scary stories?

New Scientist headline, 15th April 2003: "SARS much more deadly than first estimated". At the end of the article they summarised thus "Uncertainty may dog the exact calculation, but it now seems clear that in the absence of a cure or a vaccine, SARS could eventually kill millions. The best hope is a vaccine. At a high-level meeting last week in Washington DC, every major vaccine company reported that it had begun a research programme."

And The Observer, dateline 27th April 2003, headline "The day the world caught a cold", breathlessly (sorry!) followed by "It began in a province of China, spread through Hong Kong to reach three continents and now threatens to plunge the world economy into freefall"

Is this ringing a bell yet?

abc News: "Sept. 15, 2005 — It could kill a billion people worldwide, make ghost towns out of parts of major cities, and there is not enough medicine to fight it. It is called the avian flu."

To the untrained eye they seem to be manifestations of the same Chicken Little "the sky is falling" school of journalism.

SARS Facts: During its brief reign in 2003 as epidemic-du-jour, SARS killed 775 people, the last reported case being in July of that year. Since then there has been one new case, in Hong Kong in January 2004. Wikipedia states that "In June of 2005, Chinese and European scientists working together reported that a drug used to treat schizophrenia has been shown to prevent and treat acute cases"

Avian Flu Fact: Fatalities to date:

Fifty seven.

Get a grip, people.

Rodger your scare mungering and lies to the Australian public to legalise cruety will back fire.
For the publics information bird flu and all others viris comes FROM INTENSIVE FARMING <> Not Free range. How stupid do you think the public are?
I heard that the industry were going to try to pull this one over the Australian Peoples eyes to get the Animal Liberation and other groups off their back
Also to control the industry buy shutting down free range.
How am i doing Rodger?
Hey you must have a leak in your sytem. EVERY BODY PLEASE DO A GOOGLE SEARCH>
shortcut to: http://www.google.com.au/search?q=+disease+caused+through+animal+intensive+farms+.+indonesia+&hl=en&lr=&start=10&sa=N there are hundreds of such sites with experts saying that ALL diseases stems from the cruel intensive farming of ALL animals.
I encourage people to read these sites before listening to Rodger. Nice try Rodger but your a jerk!
Wendy Lewthwaite People Against Live Exports and intensive farming.
bUY FREE RANGE ALL FARMS TO BE FREE RANGE SLAUGHTER HERE FOR JOBS FOR OZ

Well, after the 2 foxes disposed of 4 out of 5 of our chickens, I'm probably going to let the last one also become 'munchies' for the foxes, better than some pesky feathered visitor giving it a nasty virus.

Wendy
I note you are an animal libber ? and disagree with intensive farming methods.
Are you also pro immigrations and for open borders ?

Wonder why we might need intensive farming methods ? hmmmm could it be our population ? But for me, I'd prefer to see small holdings and many more small markets. Not exactly an economic 'blockbuster' concept but boy it sure is good for community spirit, and.. oh thats a thought, people might be more healthy by eating good tucker and also interacting more meaningfully with others.

Reply To David from Wendy .

Wrong. I am not an animal libber.> the opposite I promote cojointly owned abattoirs and Free Range farms working direct with Islamic leaders and live importers. Jobs for Oz.. I also think each household should have their own two chooks for kids education and healthy living. No I don’t believe in open borders..Intensive farming and live exports are driven by people like Packer and Murdock Jannett Holmes Lercourt whom also control the media which is why people are misinformed. This is a big country so there is no reason not to free range for healthy products. Also intensive farming is barbaric and cruel. Do you want bird flue here? Well keep encouraging intensive farming and you will have it along with all the other diseases that come with it. Just look! to other countries for an example of that.
We are getting more intensive farms here everyday and everyone is at risk from it. Including the whole world. I want Australia disease free and humane. Is that a problem for you David?. Why don’t you do some reading on the subject and then post another comment.I am pro Australian and trying to create thousands of jobs for our kids.

Personally I do not believe free range chickens are the issue- its intensive factory farming of both pigs and chickens which is to blame.

Think you all should read: http://www.birdflubook.com

Ansolutely facinating - makes common sense.

Australians are sitting ducks and all those of you who insist on eating the flesh of animals forced to live in their own excrement, suffer intolerable pain then death in a hellhole called a prison factory farm- shame on you. You reap what ye sow!