There was no suspicion of hostility in my answer, diver dan.

<<....I'm not getting at anything...I'm asking a question with the expectation that I will not be treated as the enemy in the answer.>>

I was just simply attempting to pre-empt any naive assumptions that may have followed from your question.

<<Since [LSD] very nearly replicates one aspect of the NDE, maybe we should include its comparison in this discussion, on the death of consciousness.>>

I agree, but I don’t see how that would help your argument for life after death.

<<The major similarity is the evaporation of the ego self.>>

Okay, but I’m still not understanding what the relevance of all this talk of ego is. I don’t think there is any evidence for life after death, and you acknowledge that you have none. I’m happy to leave it at that.

<<It is not true we all fear death.>>

Granted. It is a pretty wide-spread fear, though. This can be seen in the number of theists-turned-atheist who struggle with the thought of a finite existence. It can also be seen in older people who tend to find God more easily, as they 'cram for the finals'.

I disagree with your assertion that there is no fear in a ‘fight’ response. It is the fear that triggers the adrenal glands, making survival more likely.

I have no idea what the rest of your talk of death as to do with whether there is life after death, sorry. However, you do touch on one of the reasons as to why I think religion is harmful:

<<[Religious people] consider peace in eternal consciousness, worth the earthly sacrifice of surrendering the ego to a higher power.>>

It convinces people that they can (or should, even) waste the one and only life they know they’re going to have being sycophants to an imaginary god.

<<Which brings the discussion to another opening. Consequences and eternal consciousness!>>

You’re not going to bring up Pascal’s Wager, are you?

AJPhillips....

Christ Phillips, the more I talk with you, the more glad I am I'm me...you must live a boring life. (I definitely don't ). There is no wiggle room in it. But have faith in randomness; the random nature of consequences. Trust me, I could write a book on it! But...would you believe it...?

Well I'd better retire to the asylum before doctor VK3AW arrives again.

Nice talking to ya.

On the contrary, diver dan, I would have thought that the lack of an apparent need for fantasy in one's life was indicative of a life that was interesting, and vice versa.

<<There is no [wriggle] room in [in your life].>>

Not for claims for which there is no evidence, no. I care about the truth of my beliefs and want to hold as few false beliefs as possible. Who wouldn't want that?

<<But have faith in randomness; the random nature of consequences.>>

I don't have faith in anything. I have trust that has been earned, and I will grant trust tentatively, but I don't have faith. Faith is the excuse people give when they don't have a good reason to believe something.

I am still lurking but AJP is saying all that is needed at present.

David

AJP
Oh..I'm happy to carry on. I thought you were over it!

Doc:
So it's two against one is it...my sort of odds! :-))

Well AJP, it's quite a joy to flush you out and discover your actually human, and not a robotic answering machine.

From my own perspective, I sit very comfortably with Christianity. If you were a Jew though, you would no doubt have sympathy for me as a misguided member of a strange sect.
And if your were a Muslim, you would probably harbour a secret desire to behead me, and rid the world of another infidel!
But we all three share the same God. Interesting!

From a religious point of view, I hold to the idea of a Heaven and Hell, and an eternal life beyond the grave. But that view is from a distant mountain of "faith"; one which you have climbed down from, since tangible evidence is lacking.

It is only from a position of general interest, I take note of a rising tide of evidence supporting a continuation of consciousness after death, attributable to physics. I'm not in need of proof.
(As opposed to yourself). I don't consider my position as two bob each way, (Pascals Wager).
You would consider me brain washed under the heading of "give me the first seven years of a child's life" (and whatever follows).

Your position is all the dumb F* believe in God, and all the intelligentsia are atheist. That is not a novel position! It's actually mind numbing in my view!
It drives me to quip. "Get yourself a life".

Well, where do you suggest we take the discussion from here?

An interesting mish-mash of fragmented thoughts there, diver dan.

Yes, I’m pretty much over it now, but you keep making claims that I want to address. I’m not one to announce my departure and then bow out. I find people take advantage of that by asserting whatever nonsense they like after you leave, or by dancing a little jig thinking they’ve won something.

<<... I take note of a rising tide of evidence supporting a continuation of consciousness after death, attributable to physics.>>

I thought you acknowledged that you had no evidence for an afterlife. Now there’s a ”rising tide” of it?

Please, by all means, tell me what this evidence is.

<<I'm not in need of proof [for an afterlife].>>

Neither am I, necessarily. At this point, just any sort evidence would be a start.

<<You would consider me brain washed under the heading of "give me the first seven years of a child's life" …>>

Maybe to some degree, if you were indoctrinated as a child and not a born-again for whom God made his customarily late appearance after the damage had already been done.

<<Your position is all the dumb F* believe in God, and all the intelligentsia are atheist.>>

Not necessarily. While it’s true that atheists are generally more educated, that doesn’t mean there aren’t any smart theists or dumb atheists.

<<It drives me to quip. "Get yourself a life".>>

Well, I’m not sure how stereotyping theists and atheists would be indicative of not having a life, but, okay.