The National Forum   Donate   Your Account   On Line Opinion   Forum   Blogs   Polling   About   
The Forum - On Line Opinion's article discussion area



Syndicate
RSS/XML


RSS 2.0

Main Articles General

Sign In      Register

The Forum > Article Comments > Party discipline - and democracy > Comments

Party discipline - and democracy : Comments

By Peter Bowden, published 30/6/2017

This article puts forward a simple thesis. The expectation that the elected members of a party toe their party line is the complete antithesis of democracy.

  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. All
Democracy!? What democracy is that Peter? Dey mock crass see, perhaps?

We are a democracy in name only! Where folks with as little as 15% of the primary vote can and do win seats!

With what the people want, the last consideration on the minds of political activists, massively manipulating the preference voting system just to maximise seats! Rather than genuine democracy!

Genuine democracy would allow any party member of any party to cross the floor on any genuine conscience issue!

Now and historically, only ever allowable inside the coalition?

Even so, the party line needs to be constructed as agreed party policy and taken to the next election! EVEN IF IT'S COMPLETE NONSENSE!

That said, true democracy is where the majority rule and have their way! Be it in the broader electorate, or the party room! Moreover, anyone can have a on the road to Damascus moment and a brief moment of mind changing revelation! In conclusion let me say this, where one member stands alone from the rest? That member has more in common with Herr hitler, Joseph Stalin and Mussolini than any tenet of true democracy?
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Friday, 30 June 2017 10:52:41 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
In the case of the drunken flapping mouth of Christopher Pyne. What he said actually overrode Democracy altogether. "Loose lips sink ships"!

He was exuberant his ideas actually usurped the collective party room decision to put the controversial subject of homosexuality, to a screamingly Democratic plebiscite.
I think Peter Bowden is " one of them"!

And point two. The Senate is Democratic. To suggest otherwise in the defence of Democracy, is absurd
Posted by diver dan, Friday, 30 June 2017 1:57:50 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
How typical of some academic twit, to cling to some ivory tower theory of "democracy", rather than live in the real world, with the "democracy" we actually have.

It is a total impossibility for voters to find out the real thinking of every candidate standing for election. It is also far too easy for a candidate to hide their personal belief in policies that would make them unelectable in their electorate. This is why party politics endures. It is much easier, & actually the only practical system, to find the policies of the major parties, & vote accordingly for their local candidate.

This system only works when members are bound by the party room decisions. Once individual members start going off at tangents of their own thinking, we lose all possibility of knowing what we are voting for. A very large number of voters have no idea of even the name of the local candidate, let alone his/her thinking on most subjects. Hell, many of them probably can't think anyway. Some of them probably actually believe in global warming

In his piece Peter tells us he doesn't believe in democracy, with his opinion of Brexit, & would deny the will of the people, in favour of the elite.

Well Peter, it is a damn good thing that you will never get your preference, as it is totally anti democratic.
Posted by Hasbeen, Friday, 30 June 2017 2:18:10 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
As an addendum to the above:

What really gets up my nose is the King of homosexual twerps, Zimmerman, the liberals member for North Sydney. (How that P* is disliked in that electorate, defies the figuring needed to understand how he got there...now there is the example of lack of Democracy)!

What is annoying in the extreme, is the power of the homosexual lobby to stand between the electorate and real Democracy!

Two prime candidates for the Liberals to remove post haste are Pyne and Zimmerman.
Notice, not one complaint against Zimmerman, the actual cause of the fracas?
Posted by diver dan, Friday, 30 June 2017 2:39:45 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
If a politician does not want to tow the party line, he or she should find a different party or stand as independents.
Posted by ttbn, Friday, 30 June 2017 2:54:46 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Begin with capped donations only from registered voters to candidates standing in the donor's electorate.

The MPs elected form the government. First session Ministers are elected from the total pool.The ministers, or perhaps the total pool elect the prime minister.

No party funding, no party meetings allowed.

A total of three terms in government and an MP is finished for 12 years. Government includes local and state government.
Posted by petere, Friday, 30 June 2017 5:56:17 PM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
The sooner political parties are declared illegal the better!!
Posted by ateday, Friday, 30 June 2017 6:56:52 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
The whole point of parties is that a group of like-minded politicians group together to vote in a block to enhance their effectiveness. This also benefits voters in that there is a party with a clear set of ideals and the power to achieve them.

Rhiannon, she was free to speak out about her opinions but to actively start campaigning against the party position without giving them any notice was not OK.

Also, the liberal party position that has been voted on is to go with a plebiscite and Pyne, who is in the cabinet, was caught on tape essentially declaring that the agreed on position would be ditched.

P.S. The last polling on Brexit that I saw was firmly for Brexit.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Sunday, 2 July 2017 6:19:10 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
The citizen in a parliamentary democracy has abrogated ALL personal decision-making in the polity, EXCEPT for the every-so-often marker of an election, where we are asked to express a general satisfaction/dissatisfaction.

In the meantime politicians and bureaucrats make compromised decisions largely in secret. In fact it is secrecy they demand, and lies abound. Deception is the coin of the realm.

A "clear set of ideals"? Hmmm, not usually, as how often has pre-election promise and post(in power)-election decision been not the same? Common I would say. And "ideals", what is this? When is a prejudice or preconception not an ideal?
Posted by Eric the Red-ish, Sunday, 2 July 2017 5:31:44 PM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. All

About Us :: Search :: Discuss :: Feedback :: Legals :: Privacy