Warwick Marsh can you tell us any religion that doesn't share the same values as Christianity?
Can you indicate which values are Australian values that are not attributes of just about ever other country in the world "Values" that are rooted in the historically interpretation of Christianity?

Easter is a Pagan celebration that was adopted by Christians, this is widely understood by historians so why miss-represent facts that are so easily checked?

The first full moon in April marks the turning of the seasons and the coming of Spring.

Cobber,

Try Islam.

Why are you so desperate to show the link between Christianity and Australian values? Values are values no matter where they come from. Are you saying that Australian values are only valuable if they come from Christianity? If there is no link with Christianity then they are not valuable at all?

In that case you are not talking about values but moral directives. A value is something we subscribe to because we see the inherit good in it and not because someone tells us that it is valuable or good. The whole point of ascribing value is to make a judgement based on our own attitudes and not someone else’s. When Christians ascribe a value to something we are never sure if it is their value or their religion’s value. We cannot trust them when they say something is good because they may well be just parroting the dictates of their religion. A non-religious person is not subject to such doubt. When they say something is good then you are much more likely to believe them because they are not beholden to the dictates of religion. All other things being equal it would be better to place your faith in non-religious people if you want something done for the right reasons.

Christians are always open to this distrust as is anyone who follows moral dictates. That is why religion is such a pox on society. It brings out the worst in people and not the best.

Gawd, here we go again.

Claims that the Western World has Christianity to thank for everything good that it has are dubious at best. The role that Christianity played is unclear, and will be debated forevermore.

Were Western values guided by Christian principles, or did the Church adopt Western values (founded on secular principles, such as the preference for reason over faith) because it had to in order to survive? The constant lag in the Church’s values, and the extent to which they have fought every change tooth and nail, along with the fact that the Bible contains enough contradictions to justify damn near any behaviour, suggests the latter is more correct.

But let’s grant, for the sake of argument, that Christianity is to be thanked for everything good that we enjoy.

So what? What are we supposed to do with this information?

Some Christians mistakenly believe that this is somehow indicative of the truth of Christianity, but the more atheistic among those promoting this view simply push it to inspire a sense of nationalism and even they seem to fear the decline of Christianity.

So what are we to do with this information then? Do we just thank those promoting this viewpoint for the interesting trivia and move on? The levels of insistence and fear in those who promote this view suggests that’s not what they have in mind.

So, again, what do we do?

Do we all just believe in something, for which there is absolutely no reliable evidence, out of a sense of duty to our heritage or an irrational fear of what might happen if (God forbid!) reason trumps faith? And what about those of us who cannot believe? Do we just live a lie and try to convince ourselves that we do in fact believe?

I don’t think so. No civilisation has ever floundered because they valued evidence too much.

So, thanks for the trivia, but it’s not evidence for any god claims. And the demise of religious dogma is not going to see society crumble, as the evidence suggests:

http://moses.creighton.edu/jrs/2005/2005-11.pdf

Australia is a western civilisation. Since Christianity is a mainstay of western civilisation it is clear that it is a mainstay of Australian culture.

On the other hand, Western civilisation is a mainstay of Christianity - its a symbiotic relationship.

Christianity's traits and underlying philosophy is based on western thought. 'The West' was, in its early phase, a Hellenistic invention, founded on the Plains of Marathon and the wonders of ancient Athens. The Israel of Jesus and his successors had been part of the Hellenistic sphere for over 300 years, and if not thoroughly Hellenised, it had absorbed or been influenced by this western culture. This is particularly so for those like Saul/Paul who carried the message to the gentiles and integrated that message into Rome's culture, a culture that had been and was, at that time, still being heavily influenced by Hellenistic western thoughts (the old adage that Rome conquered Athens and then Athens conquered Rome).

As the author notes, one of the reasons for the success of the West has been the fact that Christianity was both a bedrock and an enabler of the culture. Its unclear at this time whether the West can sustain its culture and its success in the face of the decline of Christianity. Perhaps its true that West has outgrown this bedrock and can sustain itself independent of its religion. We'll know more in a generation or three. But I have my doubts.

mhaze:

You can only have one bedrock. Either it is western thought which Christianity latched onto, as you say, or it is Christianity itself.

Christianity is not based on thought but on faith. They are two opposing things. Christianity survived because it purported to provide answers which reason and science could not. It replaced superstition and the need for people to feel like they have some control over what they could not understand. It is based on the fear of being out of control.

It has declined in influence because we have much better understanding of those things that were once beyond understanding. We have a lot less fear.

Western thought is based on reason which is a universal attribute even for Christians. Reason is the bedrock of our civilisation and not fear.