Dear David,

We disagree, but you can argue politely rather than use words like ‘pathetic pawn’, ‘disgraceful’, ‘no credibility.’ Address me in a polite, respectful manner. I will do the same to you. I can’t make you stop using abusive and insulting language, but if you continue I will not respond to your next post if you answer me.

Patterns repeat. The Polish Jagiellonian kings invited Jews into Poland when they were expelled from Spain. Jews became middlemen. They managed the estates, kept the shops, were skilled artisans such as smiths, made music at both Jewish and gentile weddings etc. In Poland Jews lived well. They were not going to rise to the nobility or descend to the peasantry. The nobility might despise them, but the needed them. The peasants hated them since the peasants had little direct contact with the nobility who were really their oppressors but a lot with the Jews who were the agents of the oppressors. At the end of the eighteenth century Poland was partitioned between Prussia, Russia and Austria with most of the country going to Russia.
In Russia Jews became despised by the Jew hating czars and lost their status. They had to scrabble for a living. My great, great grandfather was a Jewish farmer. When the czar freed the serfs he gave them his land and the land of other Jewish farmers.

From my reading what happened in the Arab world was a repetition of what happened in Eastern Europe.

I cited https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Iraq

In it was “Jews were represented in the Iraqi parliament, and many Jews held significant positions in the bureaucracy, which often led to resentment by the Muslim population.”

It is fair to assume Jews were in the bureaucracy and parliament because the British wanted them there. I doubt that the Iraqis were enthusiastic about Jews holding those positions. Jews were, in effect, middlemen for the British as they were for the Polish nobility.

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Even though the Arab states gained formal independence in reality they remained protectorates of the British and the French. During the Israeli war of independence French and British officers commanded many of the Arab soldiers. Glubb, a British officer, commanded the Arab legion. The old imperialists, Britain and France, supported the Arabs and the new imperialists, the USSR and the USA, supported Israel. The war between the Jews and the Arabs was part of a struggle between the greater powers. Both the Soviets and the USA hopped that Israel would become their client state, but the USA won out.

Israel and Saudi Arabia are now client states of the USA. Syria is a Russian client state. Iran is a worry to the greater powers as it is not a client state. The US tried to make Iran a client state by putting the shah in power, but he was overthrown.

The game is still going on.

Israel, although a regional power, is a USA client state. As far as I am concerned it is not a democracy. The definition of democracy changes with time and circumstances. Ancient Athens did not allow women, slaves or foreigners (Even if one’s family had lived in Athens for generations one could be considered a foreigner.) to vote or to participate in public affairs. Athens was not a democracy by current standards. A democracy in this century must include its entire adult population of sound mind regardless of religion, race or ethnicity. A Jewish or Christian democracy is not a democracy regardless what Ben Gurion said.

In Israel Jews serve US imperialism as they served the Polish nobility and the British in Iraq. They were put in that position.

The Jew-hating Balfour supported the 1905 Alien Exclusion Act which kept Jews fleeing czarist oppression from entering Great Britain. However, in the Balfour Declaration of 1917 he supported the establishment of a Jewish state in what was then the territory of another country.

I would like to see a democratic state between the Jordan and the Mediterranean with separation of religion and state.

Dear David,

Congratulations on your thorough account about the Jews in the age of nationalism.

Israel is not anyone's client: it does what it believes to be good for itself (even though I believe that it does itself much harm by continuing its occupation of the areas that it won in 1967). So far its perceived interests happen to coincide with the USA, but Israel would not hesitate to switch loyalties should it prove otherwise.

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«I would like to see a democratic state between the Jordan and the Mediterranean with separation of religion and state.»

Yes and every afternoon they should all have tea and scones with cream and strawberry jam, that's my winning solution!



Thus ends the chapter titled "How I made peace in the Middle-East".

In the next chapter I will tell you: "How I overcame my imperialist habit"!

Baron Munchausen.

#davidf

Two long monologues of bumpff.

Nowhere do you cite any authorities that Jews were kicked out of Arab countries as payback because they served British or other colonial interests.

Afraid to confirm you are indeed a pathetic pawn, disgraceful and lacking credibility.

I hope you keep your promise and not respond any further.

#Emperor

You are in a class of Jew-hating propagandists that exceeds anything #davidf says by miles.

Your hatefilled following false statement says it all:
"Shortly after the war Zionists with colonial ambitions took advantage of the world's lasting revulsion over the Nazi Holocaust and its origins on ancient antiSemitism. European colonialism was on the way out - why not seize and set up a racist colonial state in which the overlords were genetic Jews (with an extra boost coming from the idea that God chose them). Who could oppose that after the appalling treatment Jews has suffered for centuries? So the natives were ethnically cleansed into Untermensch status. Hostility to the overlords who brought this about could be met with appeal to the unique victim status of Jews. It could be written off by con artists as more of the old Jew-hatred."

1. "Shortly after the war"? :
The League of Nations voted unamiously in favour of reconstituting the Jewish National Home in Palestine in 1922!!

2. "Why not seize and set up a racist colonialist state" ?:
the United Nations recommended the creation of a Jewish State and an Arab state in 1947 which the Jews accepted and the Arabs rejected.

3. "Who could oppose that?"
Six Arab armies did by invading Western Palestine in May 1948 and trying to drive the Jews into the sea.

4. "So the natives were ethnically cleansed":
No they fled the country in advance of the Arab armies - clearing the way for the invading Arab armies to massacre the Jews

Emperor - you are an avowed Jew-hater, an apologist for spreading false Arab propaganda, an utter disgrace and a liar to boot.

"Sift through the writings of David Singer and one or two of his epigones for example after example of this trick. Don't be fooled by it - it's the voice of colonial oppression."

See what I mean? 1948 no longer shortly after the war. Doesn't fit the Zionist narrative. So the ultra-racist reverts to the abusive "Jew hater" stuff. As I said, the self-righteous voice of colonialist oppression and ethnic cleansing screaming on being outed.

Dear Julian,

I happened to be live in South Africa for a couple of years during the time of apartheid. Once we visited a family of white farmers, they had a huge plot of land, from horizon to horizon, and they had 100 black people to work that land.

Sounds bad?

That family built that black village for them on their property with a school for their children, the only school for perhaps 100km around, they cared for their health and provided all their needs. What they told us is: "they are like children, they can't stop fighting. When we were away they fought among themselves and couldn't solve their problems, they just waited for us to return and arbitrate. Once [the white wife] returned home and talked with them, the fighting stopped and everyone was happy again." Those Africans were not oppressed. They were free do go, but they loved their white masters so they stayed, were loyal and to me at least, they looked happy.

Now I don't think that you are a "Jew-hater", but clearly your hatred of certain people whom you deem to be "colonialists" is at the rare extreme of the scale, such hate that you would even prefer the Islamic Daesh to come and cut the colonialists' throats.

While nobody is without sin, Israelis, it seems, push that trigger for you.

I wonder why. Have you been personally abused by colonialists?