LISA
I don't think any of us will dispute that some women find high fulfillment in careers.

Even in missions work, there are many single ladies. I've seen some who are comfortable with that calling, and others who struggle with the absence of a man. Probably the most relaxed and totally fulfilled single 'career' woman I know is Aileen Coleman, who has been running a medical mission she founded some 40 yrs ago in Jordon for Muslim Bedoins. Her fellow worker was murdered by Islamic extremists, yet she still shines like the sun :)

What we do take issue with is the 'line' that 'most' women would find this.

That is what the surveys are about.. to determine the truthfulness or falsehood of such assertions.

To me its a 'dogmatic/doctrinal/revealed truth' thing, for Tim its a 'research' thing, but both (because the dogma is correct :) are pointing in the same direction.

So, we are not 'preaching from high moral ground' to women concerning 'our' ideas for them. I'm laying out what I understand to be 'Gods order' in issues of male female relationships, and Timkins is laying out 'research related to females,work, and happiness' etc.

I don't think anyone expects you to 'obey' us because its not about that, its about interacting, and discovering. You will always make your own mind up as to how you will conduct your life.

My hope and prayer is that you and many others will benefit somehow from what is shared here, and God willing, arrive at a degree of happiness and fulfillment that is 'life indeed'.

cheers

Lisamaree,
-You are a “twisting artist”.
-You don’t know what's “best for women from reading "studies" and "charts"”

If you make maligning statements or carry out name-calling of other posters, then they can return the same to you, and they need not prove or verify anything, because you haven’t.

The term “choice” seems to be used a lot by women and feminists, like the term “a woman and her children”.

But there would be provisos attached to “choices”:-
a) Someone has sufficient information to be able to make informed and reliable “choices”.
b) Their “choices” do not adversely affect someone else.

In the case of this article, it does not give sufficient information. It talks about women in general, but it seems to be advocating that women pursue a career (I think, as the article is somewhat confusing, as it incorporates everything from Barbie dolls to The Onion to Millicent Garrett Fawcett)

There can be rewards in pursuing a career, but this article does not mention any rewards or life satisfaction that can be found in family and motherhood, even though various studies have found that women generally gain more satisfaction and happiness in family and motherhood than they do in work.

Therefore the article is not a reliable article on which to make informed “choices”. It is a half-truth type article only, and such articles can easily mislead someone into making the wrong decisions or “choices”.

Thanks Timkins for your explanation..(although the attempt at mirroring other's statements to prove a point doesn't help but I understand what you're getting at re the article) - but I am frustrated! (as are many women) of men thinking they know what's best for us. I have been in such a relationship and it's not sustainable. Eventually, a person's individuality must win out over the gender-specific role (both men and women), or they become a non-person, going through the motions of being what they think society expects of them and are unable to fulfil their needs. This, I imagine, is one of the reasons that divorce is so high. I also have no doubt that many women find staying at home having children as very fulfilling and rewarding - if that's what defines them as a person. I personally have never been asked to be involved in any of these studies on women's satisfaction and happiness. If I had, I would say a partner that is supportive of a person's individuality - if people understood this, there could be many more women happily having children (and possibly a career as well).

LISA

"I'm frustrated by men who think they know best what women need"

your comments lead beautifully into a quote I recently shared from the Old Testament, and I'll repeat it here.

1 Samuel:23

23 "Do what seems best to you," Elkanah her husband told her. "Stay here until you have weaned him; only may the LORD make good his [d] word." So the woman (Hannah)stayed at home and nursed her son until she had weaned him.

Isn't that beautiful ? :) Patriarchal ? yes,.... Dominating ? Hardly.

I've known men like you speak about Lisa, and they are sad cases !

Even though I advocate a 'Christ the head of man, Man the head of woman' authority structure, it is intended to be a caring, sacrificial, arrangment and certainly does not mean a licence to 'boss' her around. Elkanah certainly worked with Hannah and is a good example.

Lissamaree,
I’ve been called lots of things by other posters, and until very recently, I haven’t said the same back to them. Some of them seem to object if they are called the same.

People are very easily swayed by propaganda and the media, and quite often people will form their own personality (or individuality) by what they see in the popular media. Shopping habits would verify that.

Things such as marriage and parenthood are presently being given much bad press in the media, as it seems fashionable to do so, but what rarely gets mentioned is that the rate of separation in de facto relationships is about 10 times greater than in marriage, de facto relationships have much higher rates of poverty, child abuse, welfare, and much lower rates of child birth than marriage, and even married women report more satisfying sex lives than single or unmarried women (just ask Bridget Jones). But such things rarely get mentioned in the media, and a lot of the media, (and almost all of feminism) is also very negative about males, fathers, husbands, and even children.

So much more balanced and accurate information becomes necessary for people to make better choices. If the trends in single person households, de facto relationships, divorce, child birth rates etc keep occurring, then either society runs out of children, or society runs out of money to keep paying for those people who keep making the wrong choices.

Thanks for a light hearted and amusing piece,
sorry the other boys didnt seem to get it.
i adore smart women who can say it how it is without going into a hairy legged rant (I dont mind hairy legs per se).
Besides, I have hairy legs myself, but thats not my point.
I cant see Barbie going back on her word, making silly promises,
invading oil producing countries, or running those mind numbingly boring election campaigns.
She wouldn't be the first un-articulated leader I'm sure, bit of a problem that she cant stand up but Boris Yeltsin did O.K. for a while.
Recently I ordered a divorce Barbie for my daughter and when it came there was this huge box...when I opened it, there was Kens car, Kens boat, Kens caravan, Kens motorbike, and Kens house.....sorry if you already heard that one.

p.s. to save the happyclappers some time I'll throw in a few
Matthew 17;21, John 11;42, Luke 15;22 Mark 17;2 Paul 7;11.