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The Forum > Article Comments > Obama, Clinton and Trump dodge questions on Israel > Comments

Obama, Clinton and Trump dodge questions on Israel : Comments

By David Singer, published 24/10/2016

The three Presidential debates have now passed without one question being asked by any of the moderators on America's future relationship with Israel.

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Abandoning the Gaza Strip, was about the dumbest thing a now geographically "divided" Israel could have done! Given it was in truth the most Ideal place for all her new illegal settlements!

And allowed a less contentious border to be drawn between the two states?

I believe everyone including the moderators have abandoned any/all hope that the present wiggling and miss-speaking Israeli administration, will actually honor any so called peace talks or agreement, just as long as the illegal settlement program is all that keeps it in power!
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Monday, 24 October 2016 9:50:50 AM
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I recall that early in the current US election campaign Bernie Sanders, apparently the only candidate with a Jewish family background has been the one who grovelled least to the powerful pro Israel Zionist lobby in the US. Seems that despite it having strong influence on mainstream media, awareness is increasing that the US should be supporting Israel less, not more. For US residents, it is basically a very costly parasite state. Note there are several time the number of federal Congress members who are Jewish compared with their proportion in the general population. Including some who are dual citizens -also of Israel. First loyalty of them seems not be to American people they are paid to represent. Including supporting US sponsored wars in Middle East with aim of weakening Muslim challenges to Israel as well as trying to maintain US military, political and economic influence in the area.

Also, remember that over many years there have been many resolutions condemning Israel put up at the United Nations Security Council condemning Israel. Largely regarding dirty things they have done against Palestinians. The US, one of the five members with veto power has apparently blocked all of them.
Posted by mox, Tuesday, 25 October 2016 8:14:40 AM
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#Alan B

Whacky comment.

Israel unilaterally disengaged from Gaza to give the Bush Roadmap a chance of happening. This involved the removal of all 8000 Jews living there.

It was a waste of time and Gaza showed its appreciation by firing 12000 rockets indiscriminately into Israeli population centers.

The two Palestinian Arab entities presently existing - Gaza and Areas A and B in Judea and Samaria - could have been easily connected by a tunnel like the tunnel under Sydney Harbour or the one connecting Hong Kong Island to Kowloon.

The border cannot even be dicussed whilst:
1. the PLO and Hamas are at each other's throat for political control of the Palestinian Arabs and
2. those poor coots have been denied to have any say on who they want to govern them since 2006.

#mox

You state:
"Note there are several time the number of federal Congress members who are Jewish compared with their proportion in the general population. Including some who are dual citizens -also of Israel. First loyalty of them seems not be to American people they are paid to represent."

Could you please give me the sources you rely on to back up the above claims.
Posted by david singer, Tuesday, 25 October 2016 11:28:05 AM
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Foreign policy critics are domestic politics easy go no where distractions that go on forever.
If any person bothered to watch Monday 24 4 Corners, which gladly wasn't reported by ABC 4 Corners Journalists and produced by 4 corners.

Negro persecution civil rights violations, will be heard and ignored by most people.

American serious media by constantly bringing up Israel and middle east politics, the channel is quickly turn other channels. Soon by bringing up negro no improvement political fixes. Do we all quickly turn to other channels?

Posters can easily criticise... can posters come up with ideal solutions?
Posted by steve101, Tuesday, 25 October 2016 12:58:51 PM
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Why in hell does Obama have to endorse anything bush said or did?
They are from opposite sides of politics and Bush has been out of office for eight years now.
The same as I get sick of the liars in the lying liars party constantly bleating on about Labor did this and its all Labors fault a full term after Labor lost power. Its the same thing.
Obama, and shortly Clinton, make their own decisions on things irrespective of what their predecessors did or said. As it should be.

Stop ya whining singer I think trump and Clinton have got a bit more to worry about at the moment than your silly little so called country.
Posted by mikk, Tuesday, 25 October 2016 6:14:27 PM
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#mikk

Guess you don't believe in America honouring its obligations and commitments.

Bush and the Congress by 502 votes to 12 made specific commitments to Israel in return for Israel unilaterally disengaging from Gaza. Israel honoured its side of the bargain. America needs to stick to its commitments.

Obama tried to wheedle out of his predecessor's commitments. To a large degree in doing so he has created America's foreign policy being in the parlous state it finds itself now.

Clinton supported those Bush commitments when she was then a Senator and the Senate voted 95-3 in favour.

As Secretary for State she was Obama's attack dog in trying to reject the Bush/Senate commitments that she herself had voted in favour of. She could plead she had no option but to do what her boss wanted.

Now that she might be America's next President she needs to tell the voters whether she will continue to follow Obama's policy or affirm that she will uphold what she voted for - the Bush Congress commitments.

By the way "the silly little so called country" ranks 22 out of 34 OECD countries based on GDP per capita.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_OECD_countries_by_GDP_per_capita

The same "silly little so called country" - Israel - has the highest concentration of startups outside of Silicon Valley. Regarded as “Start up Nation”, this "silly little so called country" also boasts the most companies listed on the NASDAQ of any foreign nation. Fewer than 1% of startups in the United States manage to scale and expand, compared to 4% of new businesses in this "silly little so-called country".
http://www.forbes.com/sites/julianmitchell/2016/07/11/startup-nation-this-israeli-company-uses-military-principles-to-build-scalable-businesses/#1091f2384c81

You can view 12 of Israel's most amazing medical advances at:
http://www.israel21c.org/the-top-12-most-amazing-israeli-medical-advances/

Little - yes - but silly - certainly not.

Yours is the kind osf unsubstantiated statement designed to denigrate Israel. It only shows you up as crass and ignorant.
Posted by david singer, Tuesday, 25 October 2016 7:19:55 PM
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To David Singer especially, asking for sources re my comments about the large number of Jewish members of the US Congress relative to their proportion of the US population: Seems about 2% are Jews. I presume from information provided on census forms.

Was a while ago I read at least one article on this stuff. Cannot now recall exactly where. Does not matter though. Try Google search for "Jewish Members of Congress" (or something similar.) I have not looked much past headlines in some of the sites that come up. However, it appears these and links and references provided contain lots more detailed info on the subject than most researchers would want.
Posted by mox, Tuesday, 25 October 2016 9:54:21 PM
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#mox

Adopting your figure of 2% " the large number of Jewish members of the US Congress relative to their proportion of the US population" is 29 instead of 11.

Of course what you fail to mention is that " the large number of Christian members of the US Congress relative to their proportion of the US population" is 491 instead of 444 based on the Christian population being 83%.

What you also fail to mention is that there is only one Republican Jew and 28 Democrat Jews in Congress and that both Houses are controlled by the Republicans and not the Democrats.

So there are 29 Jews and 491 Christians out of 535 total and only one Jew in the Party that controls both Houses of Congress.

No evidence provided by you of how many are dual nationals of US and Israel

What is the point of your raising the religious orientation of these 29 Jewish Congress members and not those of another 491 who are Christian?

Your claim that "First loyalty of them (Jews - ed) seems not be to American people they are paid to represent" is scurrilous and without any foundation.

Methinks it is another case of Jew-hatred pure and simple.

There are plenty of anonymous Jew haters drawn to my articles. Welcome to their disgraceful ranks.
Posted by david singer, Wednesday, 26 October 2016 10:27:53 AM
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"Guess you don't believe in America honouring its obligations and commitments."

LMAO You crack me up singer. HAHAHAHA
The day the septics start acting honourably is the day pigs become astronauts. Where have you been for the last fifty years?

Without US money, billions of it, israel would be just another dump in a crappy desert wasteland.
If israel is such a great country funny you dont live there singer.
Maybe that makes it a better country. ;P
Posted by mikk, Wednesday, 26 October 2016 4:53:13 PM
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To David Singer especially. Note that plenty of stuff comes up with a Google Search for "Congress members with dual citizenship." Almost certainly more important than whether they are described as Jewish, Christian or whatever. Nowadays many people who are effectively atheists or agnostics still put their own or family former religious affiliation on census forms etc.

Also note an important difference between Australian and US politics. Australia has strong major parties and weak lobbies. By comparison, in the US, the lobbies are strong and the parties relatively weak. Regarding Jewish - or rather Zionist influence in US politics. the America Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) has very strong influence. Including influencing some effectively Zionist supporting but non Jewish politicians maybe more strongly than some Jewish ones including Bernie Sanders. Seems they were among individuals and organisations from US who helped the current Israeli government stay in power at the last elections. Many Jews are strongly critical of it and Zionist policies. Especially some religious orthodox ones including the Neturei Karta. see.www.nkusa.org. Especially latest stuff posted. They object to the existence of the state of Israel and also the way it abuses Palestinians.
Posted by mox, Wednesday, 26 October 2016 9:05:38 PM
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#mox

Not good enough mate.

You made the following claim:
"Note there are several time the number of federal Congress members who are Jewish compared with their proportion in the general population. Including some who are dual citizens -also of Israel."

How many of the 29 Jewish members of Congress are dual citizens of Israel?

Please also quote your source.

Put up or shut up.

Another corker by you:
"Australia has strong major parties and weak lobbies."

Your unsubstantiated comment is contradicted by John Menadue:
"Australia's capacity to tackle important public issues – such as climate change, growing inequality, tax avoidance, budget repair, an ageing population, lifting our productivity and our treatment of asylum seekers – is diminishing because of the power of vested interests, with their lobbying power to influence governments in a quite disproportionate way.

Lobbying has grown dramatically in recent years, particularly in Canberra. It now represents a serious corruption of good governance and the development of sound public policy."
http://www.smh.com.au/comment/how-the-rise-of-the-lobbyist-is-corrupting-australias-democracy-20150515-gh2iyw.html

#mikk

LMAO at your pathetic response and just note that you do not dispute anything in my post to you.

#mikk and #mox - you deserve each other.
Posted by david singer, Wednesday, 26 October 2016 10:32:51 PM
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Note the David Singer approach to try and discredit generalised facts I have pointed out by demanding the exact sources and other obfuscation. Checking similar stuff from different original sources using Google searches should be best. However, Singer obviously wants to discourage this because readers would then see a lot more information exposing and discrediting policies and actions of Zionists he is trying to drum up support for.

At least now, thanks to wide accessibility of alternate news sites and social media on the Internet, aspects of stories that the strongly Jewish influenced Western mainstream media is not inclined to cover can be widely circulated.
Posted by mox, Sunday, 30 October 2016 9:10:58 PM
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#mox

Enough of your ducking and weaving

Please supply the sources to back up your following specific claims:

1. The names of Jewish members of Congress who are dual citizens of Israel.

2. Australia has strong major parties and weak lobbies.

If there is no evidence that you can produce then just do the decent thing by withdrawing the claims and apologising.
Posted by david singer, Tuesday, 1 November 2016 8:36:53 AM
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