Wow!! Looks like I've been sick in the mind for all the years that I can remember.
The first gun that I handled was my fathers 'Safety Hammerless' .38 S&W revolver; I must have been about four.

AJ wrote

"Yes, if you read the quote in context, you will see that that was a clumsy way of differentiating between the micro level (individual/direct decent) and the macro level (races/ethnicities)"

Your premise therefore is, that the link between genetics and behaviour is very strong in individuals, but it is insignificant within ethnicities?

That is ridiculous. Every reader knows that genetics works with individual organisms, and within groups of organisms. Behaviour is genetically heritable. Intelligence is genetically heritable. Intelligence is a factor in behaviour and in personality. Personality is a factor in behaviour. If a group of organisms evolve within a particular environment to have generally similar physical characteristics, then they can also evolve to have generally similar, IQ's, personality characteristics, and behaviour. There are clear examples in the animal world where genetic inheritance within species results in groups of organisms within particular environments possessing similar personalities and behaviour.

AJ wrote

"You fail to recognise that humans are culturally, socially, intellectually and emotionally far more sophisticated than other species and this has a massive - if not completely negating - effect on our ability to pin down common personality traits as genetic; especially when geneticists themselves still cannot find any genetic links."

You have stated that behaviour is a product of nature and nurture. That is a clear implication that nature and nurture affects behaviour in all organisms, either individuals or in groups. If you claim that the genetic inheritance of behaviour and personality does not apply to groups, then you should amend your own position by saying that "nature does not significantly apply to groups. In groups it is mostly nurture."

You claim that scientists can not find any common ethnic personality traits as genetic. The science of investigating inherited behavioural genetics is called "Behavioural Genetics." Arguably, the world's leading geneticist, James Watson, head of the prestigious Human Genome Project, got into the poo with the PC crowd for claiming that IQ and race are linked. His HGP team were prevented by act of Congress to investigate the genetic alleles making people prone to criminal behaviour.

Anybody seen AJ around, anywhere? Damn, he has flown the coop again. Just when I feel I was closing in on the sod.

Well, AJ, if you are out there and taking a sneak peek at this, please come back and play. Thanks to you, I have now done a bit more research and have discovered some more facts which I just can't wait to throw in your face. That's what I like about debating with you, AJ. You motivate me enough to overcome my naturally lazy disposition and get me researching the topic I really love.

Thanks to you, I discovered the link between genetics, behaviour and sub-species, which had been a hole in my arguments previously.

Anyhoo AJ, I have enough quotes from you now to turn the tables on you and get your justifying your own premises. Especially the ones where you contradict yourself. The one I wish to investigate right now however is your attitude to your stated position that behaviour is a product of nature and nurture. You have agreed that when you say "nature" you mean genetics. But all you want to talk about is "nurture." Your position is a contradiction. You can't agree with me that genetics and behaviour is linked, and then argue that genetics is so insignificant and that only "nurture" does anything.

Either behaviour is a product of both nature and nurture, or it is not. You are implying that genetics works with individuals, but it does not work for groups of individuals. If that is not what you are saying, then make a statement clarifying your position. If it is your position, justify it.

"boom boom, bang bang, lie down you're dead"

Another very well researched and beautifully argued position from Craig Minns and his anti gun brigade.

LEGO,

It hadn’t even been 48 hours since your last post and you were already doing the victory dance.

<<Damn, he has flown the coop again.>>

“Again”, as if it were a regular occurrence. Ding!

<<Your premise therefore is, that the link between genetics and behaviour is very strong in individuals, but it is insignificant within ethnicities?>>

You’re confusing genetic influence with heritability.

<<That is ridiculous.>>

I sense an oversimplification coming from Professor LEGO.

<<Every reader knows that genetics works with individual organisms, and within groups of organisms.>>

What exactly do you mean by “works”? This reminds me of creationists referring to “kinds”. Suitably vague.

<<Behaviour is genetically heritable.>>

The foundations for inclinations are, yes.

<<Intelligence is genetically heritable.>>

As with the above, it would appear that the potential for the type of intelligence that IQ tests test for is heritable, yes. How do you know that the type of intelligence that IQ tests test for is the same type that is required to prevent offending behaviour (remember your chicken-and-egg problem before you answer)? After all, it was pointed out to you earlier that there appears to be no correlation between common sense and intelligence, then there’s white-collar crime... And as someone who thinks that common sense trumps empirical data, this appears to be a real problem for you. IQ tests don’t test for common sense.

Here’s a question for you: what happens to people who have low IQs but a lot of common sense?

<<Intelligence is a factor in behaviour and in personality.>>

Inevitably, yes.

<<Personality is a factor in behaviour.>>

Obviously.

<<If a group of organisms evolve within a particular environment to have generally similar physical characteristics, then they can also evolve to have generally similar, IQ's, personality characteristics, and behaviour.>>

Not necessarily. This is a non sequitur. Again, there are far more gene’s, and far more combinations of genes, that lay the potential for intelligence and personality. Secondly, brains are a lot more complex than the rest of our bodies and are far more influenced by environment than our appearance.

Continued…