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The Forum > Article Comments > Do we really want to go cashless? > Comments

Do we really want to go cashless? : Comments

By Mal Fletcher, published 10/10/2016

Is cash on its last legs? Are we on an irreversible and irresistible march toward a fully cashless society?

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AlanB: You say- "It will finally usher in the end of the black economy and tax avoidance!"

Well, while I admit that it will reduce the black economy it certainly won't eliminate it. Much of the black economy and tax avoidance is currently facilitated with electronic money. When you have to move millions to 100's of millions of dollars worth of money, as organised crime does quite regularly, it is extremely impractical to use physical cash-- you use the banking system.

But even if you swapped over to a cashless system AND increased surveillance of Australian banking currency flows you still wouldn't eliminate the black economy because criminals would just use alternatives. For example, they could use foreign currency, gold and other precious metals, securities (such as shares and derivatives), crypto-currencies, any non-perishable physical asset that has a high value to size and weight ration and has an accessible market to sell to (eg: vouchers and giftcards, cigarettes, artwork, mobile phones, alcohol-many tradies have done small favour jobs for a carton or two, exotic goods, etc) and the list goes on and on and on....
Posted by thinkabit, Monday, 10 October 2016 1:34:46 PM
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//A cashless society already exists in Australia - in prisons!//

An excellent point, Yuyutsu: whatever the circumstances, people will set up a mechanism of exchange. In prisons, the currencies are generally cigarettes or sexual favours (at least that is what my fiction tells me, not having been inside myself).

So I don't necessarily have a problem with the medium of exchange being made electronic. That being said, certain practical problems present themselves: namely, continuity of supply. A really good sized solar flare could wipe out the grid, coal or renewable based. People need to trade; if we set up a system which is open to Mother Nature jamming a massive spanner in the cogs of commerce then we set ourselves up for a fall.

There's no blackout which can mess up your supply of notes stitched into an old mattress, or hidden inside the pages of a book. If everybody squirrels away a little bit of hard currency in paranoid preparation for the solar flare/gamma ray burst/massive bolide impact/magnetic pole reversal/super-volcanic eruption/Reptilian conquest, we'll still have some hard currency as the medium of exchange in our Neo-Apocalyptic future.
Posted by Toni Lavis, Monday, 10 October 2016 4:41:22 PM
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On a separate note, I feel that turning the medium of exchange into little numbers on a screen is likely to exacerbate what I like to call 'Smaug syndrome': the delusion that money has intrinsic value. In Australia we have plastic notes - a damn good currency. Bloody hard to forge, and Her Majesty's portrait on the $5 can still be folded to look like a sad whale performing fellatio. It's nice to see that some things don't change :)

But you can't wipe your arse with them, or light a cigar... as far as I'm concerned the $5 note has more intrinsic value than the rest, and only because of the sad whale giving head.

But there are people who seem to view money the same way that Smaug or Scrooge McDuck do: not for the stuff it can buy, but just because they get some weird pleasure from seeing some electronic numbers on an electronic screen. They have been fooled into thinking that these numbers are somehow a measure of their self-worth, not just a medium of exchange with which to buy more electronic screens - which just by themselves are far more wondrous than the world's hugest hoard of gold to use as a security blanket.
Posted by Toni Lavis, Monday, 10 October 2016 5:16:56 PM
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Cash offers the most simple & easy to manage private budgeting system there is.

For over 50 years I have always allocated myself a certain limited amount of money as spending money, which had to cover all discretionary spending. I added this to my wallet each pay period. This had to cover everything including transport, entertainment presents & clothing. If the wallet is empty I don't spend. The rest stays in the bank to pay fixed costs, power, phone, insurances, housing etc. & to save

This built up to buy the things I really want, new house, car, Racing car or yacht. As for me the attraction of these things has always been stronger than that of wine women & song, this cash easy budget system has allowed me to have them all. Funnily enough, once you have the house, car & yacht, the women thing takes care of itself.

As this is such an easy & successful way to manage your finances, I am not the least bit interested in using credit cards, ever. I still pay by cheque with major expenses, or PayPal if buying on the net. This is about as electronic I'm going to get.
Posted by Hasbeen, Monday, 10 October 2016 5:56:51 PM
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The chances of extortion and blackmarketeering are HUGE. Wordless and legal Theft.

The prospect of some machine wordlessly (and without human signs) deducting value out of a credit card would be hugely dangerous to the inebriated, gamblers or those wanting retail therapy.

Dotty daughters of 16 at dress shops just cannot do without that $1,500 flimsy frock. So when they blink "yep" or do nothing, the $1,500 flies from their card - a debt their parents have to repay at 18% Interest.

No way, Jose.

This would be worse than giving your Credit Card details to Las Vegas Hotel receptionists who are forced to sell your details to the Mafia
- for Mafia deductions all over America!
Posted by plantagenet, Monday, 10 October 2016 6:08:58 PM
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I wouldn't worry too much about those who get off with the occassional carton of fags etc. Even so, their activities makes them prime targets for petty crims wanting a fast buck that isn't likely to be reported!?

And as large as that minor blackmarket might be, not worth spending millions chasing thousands? But rather aimed at multinationals, many with budgets larger than sovereign nations, 40% of whom pay no company tax to anyone!

And if that avoidance becomes more costly than paying your tax? Guess what option they will chose?

Yes some rather clever folk might spend several thousand on technical equipment so they can hack into my personal account in order to lift a couple of hundred, even there purposeful delay gives me time to catch up and stop payment!

I don't think it should apply to credit cards, given the record domestic debt burden; but exclusively apply to debit cards protected by your biometrics and a pin coupled to your own secret words!

I have a small metal case that makes intended scanning impossible? And their are a range of wallets etc that do the same, give one to every family member this Chissy; and limit your online shopping to the essentials you can't get by going out!

Hacking is a crime of opportunity you participate in by clicking on a harmless looking button! Don't be too trusting!

And in not too far ahead in time that little old lady tottering down the street or in the store, will be packing an impressive array of miniaturized equipment that not only warns when the scanner is around, but who they are complete with a compelling video record able to be used as evidence to get these folk incarcerated doing hard time!

And I'd outsource that to a third world country, to ensure they thought twice about their electronic pickpocketing! With a strike three and you're out clause!
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Monday, 10 October 2016 6:32:59 PM
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