When the robots start a slow clap in unison in all factories and trucks the rice bowls will come down hard ._ sweat-shop proverb

Hi Michi,

You suggest that " .... The people of the West are Hegelians in the sense that, as it seems to me, they think all human history moves inexorably towards one goal, democracy."

I don't recall that Hegel ever had the slightest positive thing to say about democracy: monarchy, autocracy, dictatorship maybe, but not democracy. In that sense, he was a Right-Utopian. But aren't they all ?

And one lesson of history is that no, nothing moves inexorably towards anything. There is no inevitability about history, says Karl Popper. Democracy is not a given: even the half-witted Left seems to be shifting towards support for dictatorships, the Great Leader - but perhaps they always have preferred totalitarianism to the uncertainties and imperfections of democracy.

BTT: China has maybe five or ten years, before its economic, demographic and geopolitical problems become insurmountable. I'm predicting war between China, Russia, Iran and Turkey over who controls Central Asia by 2025.

Joe

Loudmouth,
Hegel did not say human history moved towards "democracy," but he said things like 'it had an inevitable logic or law of development that it could not help following, the end was human freedom and Prussia was destined to take the lead.'

China has a lot more of internal weaknesses than strengthes but Chinese leaders have always pretended and said all is right with the Middle Kingdom.

Michi,

Yes, and to Hegel, 'human freedom' reached its highest level under the Prussian Emperor. I agree with your equation of 'human freedom' and 'democracy' but Hegel wouldn't.

"Chinese leaders have always pretended and said all is right with the Middle Kingdom." i.e., they are perfect, and whatever freedoms the people have now are pretty much all they are going to get. Now, THAT's Hegelian thinking.

I have to say I could never see how and why Marx ever gave Hegel the time of day - unless there was a reactionary streak in Marx, a craving for a sort of Utopia, perhaps different from Hegel's imperial ideal, but all the same something which closed off any further development, which had all the answers and which had reached some sort of end-point. All Utopias are ultimately reactionary.

Joe

It may be that fascist leaders were Hegelian. Reason tells us that our elections are now promoting irrationality.
" Landes's book is full of misinterpretations about Japanese society but he says, "...the best colonial master of all time has been Japan..."
Well they weren't as good as the Mongols. In their towns the citizens all rested in peace..

Hi Nick,

Sleeping peacefully, like the entire population of many cities. So a legitimate question is: what did the Mongols ever do for us ? Or for anybody ?

Imperialism comes in different forms: there's the Mongol and Turkish and Arab empires, in which the 'other' got butchered, at least the men, while the women were taken into sex slavery. Mesopotamian (i.e. now Iraqi) DNA shows this pattern: male DNA is overwhelmingly Arab; female DNA is 80 % Kurdish and Persian.

And then there's the various British models which, at least in South Australia's case, recognised Indigenous people, the 'other', as British subjects from the outset, with the full rights and legal protections of other subjects, with the extra legal right to hunt, fish and gather food wherever they wished, alongside the provision of materials, fishing gear, rifles, boats, etc.,to help them to do so. Yes, I'm as surprised as you :)

And then there is Chinese imperialism .......

I know which I would prefer :)

Cheers,

Joe

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