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The Forum > Article Comments > Nice, Munich and Western democracy > Comments

Nice, Munich and Western democracy : Comments

By Pablo Jiménez Lobeira, published 27/7/2016

The danger is that, in an effort to fight this growing plague, liberal democracies may end up giving up their fundamental values.

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Every time we remove rights that thousands made the ultimate sacrifice to protect, the terrorist wins!

And only made possible by the monumental egos of control freaks who think the answer lies in ever more control and loss of civil rights!

Take brain dead gun control as an example. Outlaw guns and only outlaws or terrorists will have guns! Any calbre or action they want!

Prohibition is only available if the laws prohibiting anything, drugs, guns, prostitution, abortion etc, are actually enforceable!

We have and could deploy space age covert lie detection technology at our porous borders, but because of monumental egos? Simply chose not to?

We could return the right to bear arms to the law abiding citizenry to coerce their enthusiastic cooperation, but for the control freaks who think all we need is ever tougher laws and loss of freedom and former rights.

Down to me. if You would cross a border, apply for a driver's licence, a medicare card, or a bank account etc, without first answering a few pertinent inquisitorial if innocent questions, regarding intent and use, length of stay, current residential address, occupation and purpose etc. And all under the nose of covertly deployed space age lie detection technology, which would also incorporate an automatic red flag and some method of immobilizing a suspect?

Simply put, with this type of space age technology deployed, we could have removed the right of Port Arthur mass murder Bryant, to buy guns, ammunition or any other weapon; and or, released a gentle kind and compassionate Dr Haneef in just a few short minutes!

The fact we did neither, testament to sheer incompetence?

Simply put, we don't need protection from our own law abiding citizenry, but rather, empower them to protect themselves!

And thus win their wholehearted cooperation in a war that we must win and by first winning the hearts and minds of those we would have fight it for us!
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Wednesday, 27 July 2016 10:59:43 AM
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The article espouses nice thoughts about educating immigrants, which would bear some fruit.

However, this is now a war on Europe, not a civil matter. The overnight Church attack in France was carried out, amongst others, by one under surveillance who had also previously been incarcerated. It is time for the internment of proven sympathizers and potential perpetrators of violent jihad, as occurred in the world wars to citizens of our war time enemies, until the end of hostilities.

The "rule of law" plays directly into the hands of jihadists. We fight by Queensbury rules while jihadists carry on their murderous business under our noses.

Furthermore, under the current circumstances, I believe the Muslim community might grudgingly accept the limitation of Muslim migration, at least to a proportion that they already represent in the community, if it is portrayed as a statistical safeguard. Hell, most of them are just as scared as the rest of us.

Of course, none of this will hit home until a major carnage event here on home soil. We're paralyzed until then.
Posted by Luciferase, Wednesday, 27 July 2016 11:30:21 AM
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So, Pablo, I guess what you are saying is that the West must embrace Islam to stop the killings. Is that right?

Pigs FA.
Posted by Jayb, Wednesday, 27 July 2016 1:05:25 PM
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This article seems to be stating that we need much 'diversity'

Do we really?

Australia has 10 free trade agreements, and out of that we currently have a trade deficit.

We do not profit from all those free trade agreements, and instead we make an overall loss.

So why should Australia profit from having so many different cultures and ideologies in Australia?

And why do we need so much immigration?

We have a federal government debt, and astronomical household debt, and a fast depleting natural resource base.

So why should more immigration improve that situation?

Please explain.
Posted by interactive, Wednesday, 27 July 2016 1:53:02 PM
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This problem has only really come about because of accessibility and content of the internet. If that factor is taken into account, we should all be asking ourselves, what content on the internet is tolerable to the rest of us in western democracies?

Don't forget the "Dark net" is accessible to those who are determined enough to find it.

Or, another way of looking at it, would be to instigate an internet system whereby it's impossible to communicate without absolute positive identification of the sender. Perhaps a system based on DNA?, after all its the ONLY unique identifier for everyone.

Are we going to have freedom of speech over the internet no matter what that content is? or not? we can't have it both ways.

Bottom line in my opinion is that this violent rubbish will continue to influence and manipulate gullible individuals to carry out horrendous acts of mass murder as long as users of the internet or any other form of digital communication can take place under the banner of anonymity
Posted by Rojama, Wednesday, 27 July 2016 2:05:25 PM
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The problem with articles like this is they talk about what we shouldn't do but never provide a viable solution.

It's all well and good to not want to kill, but it's pathetic not to kill to defend yourself.

I think in the end you can either make excuses for terrorist or you can blame them. Lone mad men is one thing but these groups are being funded and supported by large number of people and most likely governments.
Posted by Cobber the hound, Wednesday, 27 July 2016 3:32:25 PM
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The West does not have to give up anything and nor should it.

Muslims are getting less and less comfortable in the modern world. They know their culture is dying, and they can do nothing about it. Allah offers only death. Muslims pray to Allah for 'success ' (see the call to prayer) but the Muslim world has been spectacularly UNsuccessful in all things in antiquity (where their dogma still lies) and in modernity. The can barely feed themselves because they are forbidden to embrace the 'cause and effect' phenomena that has seen the West continue to grow and thrive. They believe that Allah is responsible for everything that happens, and those beliefs can never changed because Allah's word is perfect and sealed for ever.

We have written descriptions from Aristotle and other ancients about what happens when civilisations die. People despair, become irrational, and would rather die than live in a different way. In these histories, we could find the reason for modern terrorism and suicide-bombings, which release desperate people from a life they cannot abide. Similarly, their is a high incidence of suicide among South American natives where the constant razing of rain forests has ripped their lives and total experience from them.

The West must not give anything away. The decline of Islam will end in the fourth death of a civilisation in since the Bronze Age. Until then, the West must go to war, and not faff around waiting for Islam to 'reform' - a total impossibility.
Posted by ttbn, Wednesday, 27 July 2016 3:54:09 PM
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Rojama, some nice thinking outside the square, however, it would be easier to identify a person online, I believe, via a retina scan, which is different and unique in every individual and very doable online with the built in inboard camera in the laptop?

Which would also allow the covert deployment by the receiver, of CAFR! To assist in detecting deliberate deception, which should activate an automatic red flag and intel gathering surveillance!

Which is currently in very short supply in the war with fundamentalists, merely masquerading as Muslims!

There's no place in paradise for moribund miscreants, who knowingly or deliberately spill so much as a single drop of innocent blood, or indeed, demand or cause others to do so!
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Wednesday, 27 July 2016 5:41:48 PM
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Hey Pablo

OK some nut (with guns, bombs and/or a truck, commits murderous criminal acts). He just happens to be Muslim. He would likely have many other motivations.

Your academic suggestion seems to be Western democracies should restructure themselves - in order to say "sorry Mr Murderer."

Fortunately our intelligence and police agencies don't bow to all wet academic advice.

I look forward to your advice on how Sydney should restructure its values because of fake Muslim Monis...
Posted by plantagenet, Wednesday, 27 July 2016 6:10:20 PM
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Pablo says that "human groups" should not be considered collectively to blame for any unacceptable actions of a fringe group within that "human group."

That ain't so, Pablo.

When a minority living within a host population has members who are involved in serious criminal behaviour and even terrorism directed against the host population, the minority can absolve themselves from collective blame provided that they engage in certain acts.

The leaders of the minority group must explain to the host population how the attitudes and actions of the fringe group within that minority is not indicative of the generally accepted attitudes of that minority. They must condemn without reservation those within their ranks who are engaging in hostile acts against the host population, and label the violent fringe group a disgrace to themselves. And if the minority has written cultural values expressing hostility to the host population which support the fringe group's activities, they must renounce those values and acquire new ones.

A fringe group within the Islamic community is now engaging in serious terrorist activity and serious criminal behaviour, and the onus is upon the Islamic religious leaders to convince the host population that Islam is not intrinsically hostile to the host population.

What have the Islamic leaders done? They write waffle pieces studiously ignoring the plain fact that Islam's holy scriptures authorise Muslims to use violence and terrorism to spread Islam. They have tried to blame the host populations for the terrorism and the numerous rape attacks by their own members. And they never directly condemn the jihadis or label them a disgrace to Islam, because they know that the terrorists are doing exactly what the Koran has ordered.

I say therefore, that Islam is an intrinsically violent terrorist advocating religion which has no place in a western democracy. Islamic immigration must be stopped and it will be stopped eventually, because the only alternative is to keep steering an ever faster course for the iceberg. It is just a matter of how much western blood will be spilt before we admit that there is no alternative.
Posted by LEGO, Wednesday, 27 July 2016 7:40:53 PM
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Generation Jihadi.
http://www.spiked-online.com/spiked-review/article/generation-jihadi-olivier-roy-isis-daesh/18504#.V5iC5ZN97SJ

This is probably the most sensible commentary I've read in a while, we Nationalists understand the futility of trying to integrate diverse people into a society with no culture.
Nobody has a future in a society where nobody belongs, the only answer is to reject globalism, reject so-called universal values and any ideals of "one world".
Posted by Jay Of Melbourne, Wednesday, 27 July 2016 7:58:33 PM
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It's so sad .... I pray that it ended
Posted by alpinaleasing, Wednesday, 27 July 2016 11:06:41 PM
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Hey Pablo,
"The danger is that, in an effort to fight this growing plague, liberal democracies may end up giving up their fundamental values."

You think? I don't want to be the bringer of bad news, but:
NONE OF THIS IS HAPPENING BY ACCIDENT, IT'S HAPPENING BY DESIGN.

Do you really think the UK and the US both are having immigration issues (UK legal USA illegal) while we have globalists and politicians pushing for open borders?
You don't all think maybe somethings smells a little off?

Take this for example.
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/common-africa-passport-to-allow-free-movement-across-continent-180959875/?no-ist
They say its all about trade, but we know after Brexit that it's designed to strip a nation of it's sovereignty and to be ruled by bureaucrats and bankers from foreign shores.
It's a centralization of money and power.

Look up NAFTA and the North American Union.

All you people are champions of democracy, but what you don't realise is that's the vehicle they use to strip a nation of its wealth and plunge it into debt.

And get us fighting amongst ourselves on petty social issues, dividing us against each other and destroying nationalism.

-Go ask the Greeks how democracy is working out.
I hear the girls are prostituting themselves at throw away prices.

It's all part of steering us towards their agenda which is a 'One World Government'.

It's about time people started taking the blinkers off and start paying attention to whats really going on in the world, instead of running around like chooks with their heads cut off trying to make sense of a world that makes no sense unless you open your mind to what's really going on.

I oppose Global Government and anything that has to do with it.
Anything that pushes us in that direction I will oppose, and anything that stands in the way of it I will support.

Not convinced? Google 'Global Governance'
http://www.google.com.au/#q=global+governance

Look at the sites that come up.
United Nations, International Monetary Fund, Council of Foreign Relations etc.
You think that's a coincidence?
Here's one:
http://www.globalgovernance.eu/about-us/
Based in Brussels... Well, well, well, should I be surprised?
Posted by Armchair Critic, Thursday, 28 July 2016 2:42:25 AM
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armchair critic

I think there is truth in what you say.
There are those at the top end of town, making huge profits
from importing more customers in the form of immigration.

and dont forget the profits made from the importation of cheap labour

Only trouble is, those making the profits dont want any of the cost of
all the infastructure,hospitals, health costs, building more dams etc.

They complain about the huge deficit and money needed for heatlh etc.
But does the big end of town want to contribute some of their wealth in
the form of paying more taxes. No it is the ordinary workers that must be slugged
with having to pay more for health care wnd the costs on the debit side of
bigger populations.

In short the wealthy classes make the big profits from immigration, but the
ordinary citizens have to pick up the debit side of the ledger and accept less jobs and
lower living standards.
Posted by CHERFUL, Thursday, 28 July 2016 7:24:33 PM
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As I said in another post in another article.

Muslim immigration has become a Trojan Horse and should be
stopped from coming into Western and European counries,

The fate of Western Countries may well end up like Ancient Troy.

Where in history have two big ethnic groups lived together in harmony in
the long term
Even the Scottish clans were always fighting over control of land and resources.

The Germans and the Jews tolerated each other for centuries until the
Great Depression bankrupted German industries.
Posted by CHERFUL, Thursday, 28 July 2016 7:34:58 PM
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Hey CHERFUL,
I think the average person gets caught up in all the smaller battles, social issues, the economy, health and education etc, but they don't see the larger battle taking place - the bigger picture.
It's not that they're ignorant, they just rely on the tv for talking points, and never see the bigger picture we're being steered towards, because it's obscurely kept from them.
But the evidence is there, if you go looking for it.

Some people might think I'm opinionated and hold a different view to them on many issues.

I submit that this is because others see the smaller picture on many topics but not the bigger one, evidenced by how many people reply to my New World Order type statements.
If they could see the bigger picture more clearly then they would understand why I hold the opinions I do on certain smaller issues.

We're all being steered in a direction, managed if you will.
It's like being in the mouth of a snake, where the more you struggle the more you get eaten; or quicksand where the more you struggle the more you sink into a more perilous predicament.

The arguments to fix the economy surround arguments to borrow more money.
The arguments for 'equality' and immigration push us towards a police and surveillance state.
'Democracy' and 'equality' aren't necessarily what they seem to be.
Tools to divide the 'useless idiots' against each other and make them give up their wealth and sovereignty to bankers.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Saturday, 30 July 2016 8:47:04 AM
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Armchair Critic

Well said,
We are being manipulated by self-interested, vested interests.
And everythings going to hell but they dont care.

When it all goes bad, theyll just hop in their expensive planes and head for
some peaceful out of the way corner of the world
Posted by CHERFUL, Sunday, 31 July 2016 11:42:08 PM
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