I have often wondered whether the obsession with Israel and its perceived faults by those like the senator aren't a form of transference or projection of their own country's flaws and embarrassments onto a scapegoat. In the case of Australian and the USA, that would be the still unresolved scars relating to relations with the original inhabitants, while many Europeans fret over their history as colonisers. Dealing with one's own issues is hard, so cue the scapegoat, the whipping boy, onto whom one's own sins can be projected.

Well David, what can one say, except I believe the Greens have form nd quite a history of misinformation or misrepresenting the facts or overstating them?

Any one would believe given their emotive evocation that our refugee camps where little better than inhumane gulags used to punish or restrain political opposition or freedom fighters? I've lived in a lot worse and been grateful for it!

Then we had that champion of social justice the Green's current leader and small businessman Dr Digitalis, being exposed paying his household staff in mostly board and lodgings, for he says, just 25 hours a week.

Simply put feelings and disingenuous diatribes mean little, when we really do need to be judged by what we genuinely stand for and backed by what we do!
Alan B.

As a communist-educated Green, she has no credibility on anything.

"We came to a region that was inhabited by Arabs, and we set up a Jewish state. In many places, we purchased the land from Arabs and set up Jewish villages where there had once been Arab villages."

You are only giving us half the truth too David. In many places they arrived and just took over the land and that is what they are still doing today. Don't keep giving us BS.

David

From memory, I recall my mum remarking that there was always a thread of anti-Semitism in the old Party: one 'colleague' even denied the Holocaust. Oh well, lie down with dogs ......

As for purchasing land, surely - since Jews have more or less always (over three thousand years) been in Palestine whatever its name or imperial rulers - they have as much right as anybody to buy land, and the Palestinians have the right to sell it.

Or would have, except for the rules of Shari'a in relation to land. In C. K. Meek's magnificent book on British Colonial Land Policy, an entire chapter is devoted to the effects of 'Muhammadan' land law: that any land bought becomes forever afterwards Muslim land, bought for Allah. Bankstown, take note.

Except for one major form of transaction: non-Muslim farmers seeking to borrow for investment in equipment, seed, fertilise, etc. - since it was illegal under Shari'a to be a money-lender, such 'loans' would be treated as purchases of the land, on which the farmer became a tenant, paying full rent (i.e. interest) until he or she could accumulate enough to buy the land back. Which was probably pretty rare.

At any rate, if you do the maths, you can see that the 'rent' on the whole of a farm would have amounted to vastly more than commercial interest rates on a standard loan equivalent in value to part of it. Meek calculated such 'rents' to be around 30-40 % of the 'purchase price', i.e. interest on a loan. In fact, the British quickly countered that form of exploitation and introduced Agricultural Banks, charging standard commercial rates, around 8%, which were bitterly resented by Muslim money-lenders. Oops, land-purchasers, sorry.

So what's sauce for the goose .....

Dubious politics aside - Rhiannon sure can sing https://youtu.be/IT1q7L4QA0A .

Unfortunatley deviants and Greens have hijacked our education system David. They have reinvented history, hate the natural family and hate the God who has turned that barren desert into world leaders of decency and democracy. Thankfully they can't win. Read the end of the book.

And that dear readers is why religion is dumb: ie see runners post.

Here is a list of the UN United Nations General Assembly resolutions and Security council resolutions about the Jewish-Muslim conflict in Palestine/Israel

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_UN_resolutions_concerning_Israel_and_Palestine

Security council resolutions these are the ones that the US didn't veto.

When you read anything written by David Singer it's like reading something from one of the hard line Palestine reps. some where in the middle is the truth and until the hard liners get out the way and the moderates on both sides talk they will not get anywhere.

Lee Rhiannon is as racist and bigoted as Pauline Hanson, it is just that anti semitism is more politically correct than anti Muslim.

'Here is a list of the UN United Nations General Assembly resolutions and Security council resolutions about the Jewish-Muslim conflict in Palestine/Israel '

and that is the dumbest post I have ever read Cobber. Quoting the UN against you is a badge of honour. How many resolutions have been made against the made up Palestinian State where they use kids as human shields and hospitals to throw bombs from. At least everyone is not dumbed down by UN propaganda.

Good one, Runner :) Perhaps Cobber could have cited some of the decisions of the UN Committee on Human Rights. Headed by Sudan.

Cheers,

Joe

Hi Joe

Actually the UN Human Rights Committee
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Human_Rights_Committee#Members

is currently Chaired by Argentina. Israel is a Member.

All 18 Members are:

Mr. Duncan Muhumuza Uganda

Ms. Ivana Jelic Montenegro

Mr. Mauro Politi Italy

Mr. Olivier De Frouville France

Ms Photini Pazartzis Greece

Ms. Sarah Cleveland United States

Mr. Yadh Ben Achour Tunisia

Ms. Margo Waterval Suriname

Mr. Yuji Iwasawa (Vice-Chair) Japan

Mr. Dheerujlall .B. S...(Vice-Chair) Mauritius

Mr. Lazhari Bouzid Algeria

Mr. V M Rodríguez-Rescia Costa Rica

Ms. Anja Seibert-Fohr (Vice-Chair) Germany

Mr. Konstantine Vardzelashvili (Rapporteur) Georgia

Mr. Yuval Shany Israel

Mr. Ahmad Amin Fathalla Egypt

Mr. Fabián Omar Salvioli(Chair) Argentina

Sir Nigel S. Rodley United Kingdom

#Mayan

The Jews returning to the land of Israel bought the land from the Arabs wherever they settled.

The Brits came to Australia and took what they wanted without payment.

Senator Rhiannon must know the Jews paid for what they acquired - as she has omitted that very fact from Dayan's quote.

Pleading her case for the Palestinian Arabs on the basis of misleading and deceptive statements does her no credit and only serves to expose the myths put out by Arab propagandists.

She really needs to explain why she acted as she did.

BTW - I have now discovered that those four inaccurate maps trashed by McGraw Hill and referred to in my article appear in a Green's booklet for which the Introduction was written by the good Senator herself.
http://leerhiannon.greensmps.org.au/sites/default/files/140515_final_palestine_booklet.pdf

Will she now trash the maps as well as as her misleading pamphlet?

#VK3AUU

You state:
"In many places they arrived and just took over the land and that is what they are still doing today."

Care to give me some specific examples you have in mind?

#Loudmouth

Excellent post thank you.

Jordan and the PLO both forbid Arabs to sell land to Jews and those caught doing so have been murdered.

Pretty racist don't you think?

# plantaganet and #Cobber

What relevance do your comments have to my exposing the deceptive and misleading pamphlet issued by Senator Rhiannon?

Are they red herrings designed to deflect discussion on Senator Rhiannon's action?

Sorry but those kind of diversionary tactics won't work.

Do you support what the Senator did? Your viewpoints would be appreciated.

# Shadow Minister

I am not out to tag Senator Rhiannon with any particular description. She authorised and issued a pamphlet which I have alleged contains a materially misleading quotation.

It now appears she has been party to issuing four inaccurate maps that have been trashed by McGraw Hill.

As a politician seeking re-election to the Senate - I hope she posts a response here to explain her actions.

Sorry Pete, I stand corrected. I'll bet their meetings are fiery.

Cheers,

Joe

Update to my article:

I have discovered since writing my article that the four inaccurate maps trashed by McGraw Hill and referred to by me in my article - also appear in an Australian Greens for Palestine booklet for which Senator Rhiannon wrote the introduction.

http://lee-rhiannon.greensmps.org.au/sites/default/files/140515_final_palestine_booklet.pdf

Do you think she and the Australian Greens will have the good sense to trash both the maps and the pamphlet?

Or isn't acting at all times with honesty and integrity required from our political parties and their candidates any more?

David Singer, my information came from a book I read quite a few years ago. I am a bit vague about its title, but I think it was "My Brother". The author was a Palestinian Bishop probably from the Coptic Church, once again I am a bit vague about his details. What I do remember well is his story. The Zionists arrived and told them that they were taking over their land for a while. They rounded up all the men and sent them away in a truck to places unknown (it may have been Lebanon) from whence they made their way back several years later. As it turned out their temporary take over of the land was permanent. They certainly didn't pay for it.

I have no reason to doubt the voracity of his story. In my youth, I had a lot of sympathy for the Jews, but as I have got older and learned more, I have formed the opinion that certainly, the Zionists are no better than the Nazis.

David

#VK3AUU

You made the claim:
"You are only giving us half the truth too David. In many places they arrived and just took over the land and that is what they are still doing today. Don't keep giving us BS."

When I ask you to give me some specific examples you are unable to substantiate your claim.

A gratuitous unsubstantiated slur on Jews remains the total of your disgraceful posts.

You should apply for a job with Senator Rhiannon. Indeed what you claim to have read in your youth could have well been the kind of propaganda she would distribute.

If you are going to allege something - be prepared to back it up with hard evidence that can be examined.

The BS is all coming from your direction.

I just gave you the evidence. Just because it goes against your propaganda, you refuse to accept it.

End of story.

David

Hi VK3AUU,

Having knocked around and believed much more Aboriginal 'narrative' than I should have, I'm very aware of the BS yarns that can be told. I've learnt that a yarn is not evidence. It might make 'sense', and a series of yarns can even fit together, but it's very possible that none of them are true.

If you want anybody to believe you're not a fool, you need to provide something substantial, unambiguous evidence, to back up your second-hand yarn from god-knows-who.

Joe

Joe, I have tried to find that book a few times, but so far no luck. It was a first hand experience of a man who if I remember rightly rose to the position of Bishop in the Coptic Church, so I have no reason to doubt his story. Like you, had the story come from a lesser mortal, I might have questioned it, but it went into too much detail to be disbelieved. It certainly wasn't a second-hand yarn from god-knows-who.

You only have to look at the history of how the Irgun and Stern gang terrorists forced the hand of the Brits to realise that the Zionists were not lilywhites.

Incidentally, like you, in my youth I have knocked around a bit and I probably know a bit more than the average southern do gooder when it comes to aboriginals, some of whom I have known.

Hi VK3AUU,

I agree with you that, just because the Muslims pillaged most of the known world for a thousand years, massacring vast numbers of peaceful people from Vietnam and Korea across Asia and Europe, to Poland and the gates of Vienna, down into India, Persia, across North Africa and Sub-Saharan Africa and parts of Spain and up into France - doesn't mean that anybody can take any bit of land from a Palestinian owner. Vast wrongs don't excuse a minor wrong.

But your yarn-spinner needs something to back up his story, no matter who he is: he who asserts, must demonstrate. All the passionate declarations in the world don't really amount to anything without evidence.

For example, so many Aboriginal stories use the same tactic - the Rabbit Fence Story, for instance, for which there is no evidence - not from the newspapers of the time, from the 900-page Moseley Royal Commission, from eye-witnesses of the times such as Mrs. M. M. Bennett and Paul Hasluck. Nothing. Yet we believe - partly, I suspect, because we desperately want to.

Sorry, VK3AUU.

Joe

#VK3AUU

Evidence is something that can be checked and verified - not the vague recollections of your youth reading something from an unknown publication by an unnamed maybe Coptic bishop.

Get serious if you want to be believed. Find the name of the book, give us the name of the Coptic bishop and quote what he actually said. Then we can continue this discussion.

The indelible impression apparently left on your young mind - when examined closely - may be something totally false.

Interesting that your fellow Jew-haters have also not leapt to your aid to support your claim that the Jews took over the land without paying for it. Guess they are desperately trying to come up with something but so far - zilch.

Reading something like Senator Rhiannon's pamphlet (or by your unknown Coptic bishop) can certainly create the perception that Jews stole the land. That has been the problem with Arab propagandists for generations. Their "narrative" has been built on such lies and deception and people like you swallow it hook, line and sinker.

When someone takes the time to check these offensive and disgusting claims - they are found to be distortions, half truths or outright lies.

Published often enough they assume the mantle of truth.

I have sent Senator Rhiannon a copy of my article hoping she might furnish some explanation of why Dayan's full quote was not used by her - but she has not replied.

She could well have referred me to the appearance of this quote somewhere else in the form she used it - without she or her parliamentary staff properly checking it first.

She could then apologise and say she would immediately trash the remaining copies of the pamphlet.

She chooses to remain silent so far.

I wasn't exactly young and naive when I read the book. I suppose you will be trying to tell us next that it wasn't Jewish terrorists who blew up the King David Hotel, thus causing the British government to capitulate.
David

#VK3AUU

I am still waiting for your evidence that Jews did not pay for the land they settled on in Palestine.

Raising red herrings by making gratuitous slurs on Jews will only lead me to conclude you have no such evidence and are desperate to change the direction of the discussion in the hope I will be diverted from the canard you first raised.

This is what invariably happens when other Jew-haters find themselves in the same position. You are following the well trodden tactic of your fellow Jew-haters by trying to turn impossible defense into desperate attack.

Won't work mate.

You still have this homework to do:

"Evidence is something that can be checked and verified - not the vague recollections of your youth reading something from an unknown publication by an unnamed maybe Coptic bishop.

Get serious if you want to be believed. Find the name of the book, give us the name of the Coptic bishop and quote what he actually said. Then we can continue this discussion."

Alternatively come up with some other evidence to support your so far unsubstantiated claim.