Hi Dan

It is possible that a real flood is behind the ancient flood stories. Jayb mentions one theory, that it recalls the flooding of the Dead Sea. Another is the inundation of the Black Sea from the Mediterranean. Some think it reflects the regular flooding common in the swamplands of Mesopotamia. However, many scholars theorise that, because Gilgamesh predates the Old Testament, the authors of Genesis borrowed and adapted the story from the Mesopotamians.

What is clear, though, both from physical evidence and common sense, is that a flood of the magnitude described in Genesis could never have happened. Nor is it possible that all animals and birds alive today are descendants of pairs of every species that Noah took on the ark. Or that a person with Bronze Age technology could have built an ark as described in Genesis. You are right that creationists have tried to address these questions, but I have never seen an explanation that looks remotely plausible.

I agree that recognising genre is important to understanding scripture. But detail is not necessarily a marker of historical accuracy. The genres of Genesis are hotly debated among academics, e.g.

https://books.google.com.au/books?id=nfN9BAAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=genesis+history+fiction+or+neither&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjW-orW9ZTNAhXIjJQKHaj7ACMQ6AEIJTAA#v=onepage&q=genesis%20history%20fiction%20or%20neither&f=false

Hi Yuyutsu

Yes, childlikeness is hard in the scientific age, and something is lost as a result. Theologian Marcus Borg talks of three ways to approach scriptures.

- “Pre-critical naiveté” accepts the scriptural stories as literally true – there really was a great flood, a garden of Eden, a virgin birth, etc.
- “Critical thinking” questions these stories and concludes that they cannot be literally true. It also understands scriptures as human creations that reflect the ideas and cultures of its authors.
- “Post-critical naiveté” accepts the conclusions of critical thinking but see the truth of scripture as not dependent on its historical accuracy. This, I think, is being childlike without being childish.

I think you might enjoy Borg.
https://www.amazon.com/Reading-Bible-Again-First-Time-ebook/dp/B000FC13HC/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1465271184&sr=1-2

Rhian: Jayb mentions one theory, that it recalls the flooding of the Dead Sea. Another is the inundation of the Black Sea from the Mediterranean.

The Flooding was from the Mediterranean through the Gap at Istanbul. The area was weakened by weeks of rain then a Major Earthquake hit the area causing the gap & emptied the Mediterranean into the Black Sea.

Rhian: Or that a person with Bronze Age technology could have built an ark as described in Genesis.

The Flooding of the Black Sea happened about 9000BC. About 7000 years before the Bronze Age. In 9000BC they only had Primitive stone tools & were Nomadic peoples not living in permanent settlements.

There is no way one person could have built a vessel of any size let alone one the supposed size of the Ark. A small dugout canoe for fishing would be about all there was in 9000BC.

I really don't care what it says in the Bible, it is clearly a borrowed story.

Yuyustu,

What do you mean then, when you say "truth"?

<<[Science] is useless in regard to truth, for the only Truth is God while the world is only an illusion.>>

And why did you spell 'truth' with a capital 'T' in once instance and not the other?

What is the evidence for this claim, and your claim that "the world is only an illusion"?

If the world is only an illusion, then how did you come to that conclusion without a world that is not an illusion to distinguish it from? This sounds to me like the creationists' Watchmaker fallacy.

Asserting as fact that which is not evidently true is dishonest, so I'd be interested to hear what you have to support these claims.

Hi Jayb

I don’t think we disagree. I was simply listing some of the theories of events that may have lain behind the Middle Eastern flood myths. The Black Sea inundation did pre-date the Bronze Age, but stories of that event may have been preserved and morphed into the stories of the great flood that seem to have emerged in the Bronze Age. Or, there may be another event behind the flood stories; or no event at all. And I agree, whether 9,000BCE or 4,000BCE, no one could have built an ark as described in Genesis.

Rhian: Or, there may be another event behind the flood stories;

The other big event that happened around 9000BC was the English Channel Event. Although , that would have only taken a few hours apparently. Interesting story that, worth looking up.

yep, that's interesting

the one I would have loved to see is the Atlantic breaking into the Mediterranean, though sadly there were no humans around to mythologise that one.

http://www.livescience.com/10607-colossal-flood-created-mediterranean-sea.html