Yuyutsu,

Sometimes trying to untangle your non sequiturs seems futile. Still, I'll give it a go.

I am not the State. I don't impose myself on others, the State does, as every State has the right to do, in the fulfilment of its obligations to all citizens, not just you or me. We elect members of parliament, the majority of them choose a government and that government takes on the duties of the State. How do you propose to stand alone from all that, and from the rights, benefits and obligations that flow from it ?

My remarks about Shari'a and Canon law pertained to their position with regards to State law. In a secular, democratic society, they have no standing. Good or bad, 'better' or 'worse', is irrelevant. As it happens, I do think they are far 'worse', more backward, than contemporary secular law and its recognition of the equal rights of all, regardless of their religion or lack of religion.

Joe

Well said Loudmouth.
I have often struggled to understand where Yuyutsu is coming from, with his stance about not wanting any sort of human law or government in his life, but yet wanting others to agree with his stance on religion.

It is all a silly dream anyway, unless he wants to go back to the time of the caveman, where any disputes were settled by a quick clubbing to death of your rival...

Loudmouth,

I can agree with all that you wrote. However, not being a lawyer I still think there is an essential difference between the claims of Canon and Sharia laws.

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_law#Canon_law :

“Sharia, also known as Islamic law is the moral code and religious law of Islam.

Sharia deals with many topics addressed by secular law, including crime, politics and economics, as well as personal matters such as sexual intercourse, hygiene, diet, prayer, and fasting.

The reintroduction of sharia is a longstanding goal for Islamist movements in Muslim countries.”

In distinction,

“Canon law is the body of laws and regulations made by or adopted by ecclesiastical authority, for the government of the Christian organisation and its members.”

In particular, no Catholic, even the most fanatic, would want the State law (in a Western country) to be replaced by the Canon law. The most they want is that the State Law does not contradict what they see as the Christian moral code, distinct from the “laws and regulations” for the running of the Church organisation.

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Thanks Golem Azoom,

Thanks, I'll bear all that in mind.

Hi George,

Yes, I agree that - for all sorts of historical reasons - Christianity has never wielded the dictatorial power than Islam seems to wield over their respective flocks, and over the day-to-ay running of the State. Perhaps from the outset of the adoption of Christianity, secular power, that of the Emperors, struggled with it, while in Islamic states, Islam ruled from the outset of their invasion, with weak but necessary secular power taking its cue from the Koran, and secular power always being subordinate to religious authority.

So in Fukuyama's terms, Christian states rarely succumbed to the rule-in-one of a Caesar and a Pope - what he calls 'Caesaropapism' - while it was pretty much the rule in Islamic territories, until Ataturk abolished the Caliphate in 1924.

And since the Koran is pitched as the literal word of Allah, unchangeable and perfect, Muslims are stuck with it. Until Muslims separate Church and State, and are comfortable with secular authorities being responsible for secular issues and wielding secular power over a secular State, then they are doomed to acquiesce in the goal of Islamists: the conquest of the entire secular world in the name of Allah.

Joe