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Pause in global temperatures ended but carbon dioxide not the cause : Comments
By Jennifer Marohasy, published 21/3/2016El Nino events are not caused by carbon dioxide. They are natural events which manifest as changes in ocean and atmospheric circulation patterns across the Pacific Ocean.
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Posted by Doug Cotton, Monday, 25 April 2016 12:07:27 PM
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J F Aus
You say "I am only looking for warmth at the surface " and " But where does the heat go, the heat than would otherwise travel down slightly more if the shade did not exist?". Up in an earlier comment you said "What some scientists call heat is different to heat on skin on skin that people feel from the sun." Remember that what comes from the sun is not heat but energy in the form of EMR that may create heat in something it hits (like skin). It may instead be converted to another form. If it hits a solar panel it will create some heat and some electricity. For example 18 percent of the energy may turn into DC current. The panel has a low albedo and not much is reflected. So a lot of the remainder turns to heat. The sun emits EMR at frequencies lower than IR light too. For example if some hits an efficient antenna tuned to 10.7 GHz for example then the EMR at this passband will convert to AC power in coax or similar. The rest may turn to heat. "Recently, algae are recognized as a promising biodiesel source due to its efficient absorption and conversion of solar energy into chemical energy." http://www.els.net/WileyCDA/ElsArticle/refId-a0000322.html So at the surface without the Algae we will see the part of the sun's EMR energy that is absorbed there. MOST ALREADY IS. A friend discussing something else via email sent info which shows you are quiet correct to say " travel down slightly more". Turns out to be not far at all for most light. http://book.bionumbers.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/320-f1-SolarSpectrum-11.png and "Being very thin, the layer cools sufficiently rapidly to reestablish itself in less than 12 seconds after disruption by a breaking wave." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17841610 If the very thin surface layer water takes 12 seconds with a thermal mass of 4.182 then Algae may take less than half that time. Posted by Siliggy, Monday, 25 April 2016 7:20:25 PM
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Doug Cotton
Re the Antarctic staying warmer than -200 all of the long night down there you say "Hence the energy must come from the atmosphere, but wherever the atmosphere is colder than the Antarctic surface, there can be no heat transfer by radiation." While i think there are other uncounted sources of heat plenty of energy comes from the Enthalpy or latent heat of fusion. As the Antarctic ice grows it MUST give off the difference between the specific heat of water and the specific heat of ice. Also a lot of heat is stored in the water that remains water and the ice that stays ice. How much water and ice is on the moon again? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M41yEWNyvZk Posted by Siliggy, Monday, 25 April 2016 8:19:12 PM
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Ant
You say "The overriding question is what are we going to do about it? We constantly view how storm water pipes are inadequate. Sewage becomes mixed with flood water. Roads are damaged. Houses,shops, office buildings, and vehicles are damaged by storm waters." Sounds like you need a Plumber. The best way to be able to pay for the plumber instead of a Qld flood levee is to not vote in anyone who would send the money to foreign bankers and countries that hate us for carbon trading. In the mean time adding more CO2 to the atmosphere will help plants to sequester both the extra water and solar heat. So simple CO2 + H20 = plants and oxygen for our grand children! As the effect of Atmospheric CO2 is logarithmic, more is not much of a problem and produces stability but less is a disaster. More CO2 will help to reverse the desertification made worse by national parks. Lack of human influence is causing many many problems. CO2 will save the oceans too. That extra plankton means more fish can eat and fish poop makes the water go alkaline. Isnt it a lovely life giving gas! Posted by Siliggy, Monday, 25 April 2016 8:54:01 PM
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looks like the people who said the pause only existed because people were including the temperature caused by the 1997/8 El Nino are now guilty of the exact same thing. However as the normal earthquake activity that accompanies the change to La Nina or El Nino shows, 800 years ago something now deep beneath the oceans in the global conveyor changed and is affecting the coral today. Also it is bringing on a rapid sea surface temperature drop as a huge amount of cold water rushes up from the deep near Ecuador.
http://www.ospo.noaa.gov/Products/ocean/sst/anomaly/anim_2mw.html This is from far to deep too be recent plankton or CO2 as the above depth stuff shows. Coming from the deep shows it is far to old to be any thing that happened in the industrial age. So what did cause it all those global conveyor years ago? http://rsta.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/368/1919/2481.full Posted by Siliggy, Monday, 25 April 2016 9:15:40 PM
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Siliggy,
I think your comments are written in a very understandable way therefore are very educational. Let me verify what I mean in this discussion by "surface". I am not referring to a literally thin layer on the very surface. By surface waters I mean say the first 30 feet - 10 metres. It is in that area where colour is lost. That first 30m feet is the most productive biologically. It is in that layer that I think the most algae and most algae associated heat is to be found Below that depth it starts to get colder and darker very quickly. It's all very well for you to feel Electromagnetic Radiation coming from the sun but on a hot day my body feels heat coming from the sun. LOL TIC So what can you tell me about heat that may be trapped for a few minutes or a few hours within dense soggy wet algae growing in that first 10 metre depth area of ocean surface? Again, Sliggy, thank you so much for continuing this discussion. I will try to reply to ant tomorrow. And Hi Doug Cotton. Posted by JF Aus, Monday, 25 April 2016 9:36:15 PM
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* Second law of thermodynamics: In a natural thermodynamic process, the sum of the entropies of the interacting thermodynamic systems increases.