Most of us posting seem to have this "The government and life owes me a living" attitude...

Team.. your mum and dad owe you a living... the government does not.

As mentioned elsewhere, I've just had a few days in Singapore, and I made observations with many questions in mind from here that hitherto had not really been in my mind when there. I photographed a 77 yr old guy clearing tables in a hawker centre.....

There is NO social welfare in Singapore apart from your family. There is a minimum 'roof+allowance' kind of gov't help if you manage to pass the detailed scrutiny of your personal situation where if you have family you don't qualify.

In Manila, I visited a family with just a kitchen, and 2 bedrooms, but boy oh boy, they had it set up for screen printing of T-shirts and were doing hundreds. (in between cooking and living) cut out all the stencils painstakingly by hand, and were forging ahead.

Its about time the category described by Kenny (minimum wage guy with non working wife and 2 or 3 kids) woke up to the opportunities available when you look for them.

I can't say I favor IR changes which disadvantage anyone, but I also don't favor the mentality which a welfare system breeds of sitting back and waiting for the next spoon feed mouthful to come our way.

C'mon aussies, lets show a bit of spirit and grit and self sufficiency and get on with the job of looking after ourselves

I agree with Boaz. It seems that some people think the government owes them a living if they somehow manage to lose their job (despite unfair dismissal laws) and when they've got a job they think the unions should be doing there best to increase their wages at the slightest hint of unfavourable economic outcomes (e.g., petrol prices going up) while screwing everyone else who doesnt have a job.

Get rid of unfair dismissal laws, abolish minimum wages, and overhaul social welfare (sliding scale for the dole). Better yet, put the responsibility of welfare onto the family. Let individuals look after themselves and take responsibility for their own actions.

At the end of the day, if the whole 20:80 thing happens, which it wont, we can always revolt.

I spent 30 years working hard, usually for good wages, in an industry that has been outsourced to India, as part of government policy. That's 200,000 high skilled jobs gone. The industry was not unionised so for most of that time there was no overtime payments, no minimum call out rates - you could be woken at 2am to fix a problem then have to appear in the office at 8am. Add to that the loss of engineers has meant that Victorian infrastructure is now built without local knowledge.

During that time I paid my taxes and contributed to super under the assumption that the money would be used to give the next generation good educations and appropriate levels of health care whether their families could afford it or not. I didn't think Australia would be rearing such ungrateful brats at The Usual Suspect and Weapon.

I am currently a member of a union because if there is an incident the union might represent me.
Unions have ensured that work places like coal mines have been made safe, have jockeyed so that injured workers and their families are cared for.
In the miners strike of 1890's unions fought for shearers to retain their wages of 17/- per hundred which were lower wages than they got in 1860 of 1 guinea per 100 sheep.
As a wash up of the 1890's landboom in Victoria half the households in Melbourne starved while the developers declared themselves bankrupt, making part payments of farthing in the pound and retained the gracious old mansions which Melbourne is famous for.
The prime ministers family has shown its disregard for workers when the prime ministers brother misappropriated the employees superannuation contributions of National Textiles in Maitland

Dear Boaz,
Some of us would like a society where people could earn a little more than a roof and accomodation. Not all of us wish to rely on our family. Once upon a time with a real wage and full time job, people could earn earn to save money.

Weapon- there is a sliding scale for the dole, along with a 75% marginal tax rate. Some people complain about 45%. Not us though. We're just grateful to have a job for a few weeks...
Must quit working & get back to saving money.

"THese changes will not draw more people to restaurants, they will not enable a widget factory to produce more widget per hour, they will put a premium on the price of raw materials - they will reduce costs to employers; if there is no market for new goods there is no prodctivity gains or employment growth. These changes are evil."

This comment displays a stunning ignorance of economics, which is pretty typical of the fluffy left who are opposing these IR changes.

Even if the only difference from these changes is an increase in profits to employers, what do you think happens to that extra money?

Do employers hide it under the bed? Put it in their Scrooge McDuck money tank and swim around in it?

Of course not. They reinvest it and grow their business, which creates demand for new products and services, and in turn new jobs.

For people like Sneekeepete who were too busy smoking bongs to take economics in year 11, here's the circular flow diagram.

http://www.cr1.dircon.co.uk/TB/3/cflow.htm

If you read on further, you might even learn something.

Numbat - It wasn't meant to be a personal attack - just the fact that it really grates my goat when people try to compare modern day Australia with Nazis - this is supposed to be reasoned debate and comments like that are irrational.

Sandy - So glad to hear you worked hard all your life, which is what I've tried to do in my short period in the workforce.
Don't see how this makes me an ungrateful brat.
I am grateful that the public schools I went to had good teachers who help my education.
I am grateful that my parents taught me the value of hard work and sacrifice.
I am grateful that healthcare in this country is very good.
Could you please tell me where I have been ungrateful.
I work hard, I spend time with my kids, I do volunteer work, I coach kids football, I'm active in the community.
All I have done is offer the view that I think the IR changes have merit, especially for the small businesses who make up a large proportion of the businesses where I live.

t.u.s