Conscription? yes and no. One volunteer is worth 7 pressed men!

One only needs look at the way Iraqi conscripts abandoned their positions, leaving their ultra expensive modern equipment, to understand that, and in order to fight, YOU NEED SOMETHING TO FIGHT FOR AND WORTH PRESERVING!

A fair and egalitarian society, and equal treatment before the law!

Invariably those who do most of our fighting have the least to lose? Come from the poorest backgrounds and lowest socioeconomic circumstances?

Albeit, they can sometimes learn a useful trade that quite massively improves their post military circumstances as does property and business loans, education grants and imposed gratuity.

Opposing something as absolutely terrifying as an villainous ISIS, requires more than quivering in absolute fear conscripts, but men and women with plenty to lose and enough unadulterated guts to do what needs doing to defeat it.

And given all that is so? we are just not getting there!

Housing is no longer affordable for the lower paid 40%. Ditto justice!

As always the privileged classes seem to fare better when it comes to education. And when challenged they often retort, we pay the most taxes!

Well given tax avoidance enables many of the most privileged to avoid paying any tax, how true is that?

And as always, we see power and influence being used to enable some to shirk their duty?

In any event, if we do have another war, god forbid, the safest place will be at the front, given civilians, politicians, the national grid and all our productive capacities will be the first target of choice!

And given the array of modern weapons, rocket firing drones and bunker busting bombs etc, all very reachable preferred targets.

And targeted not only to kill the will to win, but the will to just resist!

That being true, we need to declare both a state of emergency and martial law, if we are ever forced to defend these shores?
Rhrosty.

Those who kidnap innocent children (only boys, the author suggests) from their homes, families and schools, trying to break their spirits and forcing them to do time in prison-like conditions as slaves who must obey all orders, their sole "crime" being that they were born where they were and reached the age of 18 in relative good health - are no better than any paedophile or Islamic State terrorist.

Should Australia support this despicable torture, it will no longer be worthy of being defended, including against terror.

Any moment while reading this article, I expected the author to bark: 'Hey, YOU ... reader! Sit up straight!'

Medal-heads like these are full of all kinds of romanticised notions of turning boys into men and using these noble, heroic, trained and ever-alert boys-turned-men to defend us from all evil everywhere.

Unfortunately, the reality is a little different. Those 'boys' are almost always conscripted to fight the wars and power struggles of dictators, imperialists and banksters. They die in their thousands (or millions, depending on the size of the dictator/imperialist/banksters' particular power struggle) because it's all really just about bums on battlefields.

Oh, that's right. I forgot. The author wasn't talking about wars, he was talking about conscripts defending us from terrorism.

Yeah, right.

Here one for you. I've actually met Col Hackworth. when I served with 1 R.A.R. attached to the 173d (S) Airborne at Bein Hoa. 65/66. Heis Son until recently was the 1St. Sargent of the 173d Airborne in Italy.

Great man.

Medals? Iraq? Odd emotional, irrelevant comments to make.

The point, if you read the story, is about giving people some basic skills to cope in a situation like a Lindt cafe scenario or a Paris scenario as "civilians", having previously completed their national service. Who is talking about fighting in conventional wars or even in counter terrorism? Bizarre assertions to make.

What is wrong in giving a large number of the population training which would be of use in the world in which we know live in? We pay house insurance in the hope we never have to use it..

Or do you prefer to hand over more power to the state to protect you by curtailing your civil liberties and intruding into your private life and in turn does nothing. Heaven forbid if you were placed in a situation like in Paris and wished you had something to assist you to stay alive.

There was a National Service scheme from 1951-59 in Australia if I remember correctly which was done in blocks of 3 or 4 months & no one sent to fight in Korea (1951-53).

We're in 2016 and not 1968....we are not re-fighting VIETNAM ! The world has changed. So must we !

Supposedly giving people the skills to fight terrorism on their own ground is just another sloppy justification for recruiting young men (and now, young women) into forming an involuntary army to fight imperial wars.

Conscription, or national service, or whatever you wish to call it, is rarely ever used for civil defence. In the US, they called it the military reserve (as they did in Australia in the 1960s). People signed up to lift themselves out of poverty or to pay for college tuition. However, they soon found themselves having to do tours of duty in the West's imperial wars on Afghanistan and Iraq.

If we were serious about creating a civil defence network against terrorism (including sexual terrorism), then we would allow people to have their own weapons and to enforce training programmes to teach them how to use those weapons (Swiss style).

But this is unthinkable. The concept of allowing ordinary people to use weapons to defend themselves is too threatening to the powers that be. It's much more palatable to create a military national reserve, overseen by the military high command, to provide a supposed national defence. Then we have a ready-made military force to be called on whenever we want to destroy an enemy that does not cooperate with Western interests.

I always speak against government curtailing civil liberties and intruding into our private life and I even agree that those who so wish should be able to have guns to defend themselves on their own properties, but anything the government of Australia does at the moment (yes, even its demand that one cannot ride a bicycle without wearing a pot over their head, which I often complain about and which will determine who I vote for in the coming elections) DWARFS in comparison with conscription.

The only curtailing of civil liberties and intrusion into one's private life that is on par with conscription - is imprisonment, yet here we speak of innocent 18 year old boys who committed no crime except for being born in Australia and reaching the age of 18 in relative good health.

I have no problem if for the sake of protection in Lindt-cafe situations, the government wishes to train trustworthy volunteers who could subsequently carry weapons in public spaces - but it must be volunteers and I can hardly see how the trustworthiness of such young people can be ascertained, still at an age when hormones play such a big role. Better wait till they are at least 30 and present a clean record.

Killarny, during the second world war a lot of those metal heads deliberately fired over the enemy. Unlike you most soldiers who have actually served just don't see taking a human life as some sort of team sport. But after D day, when the death camps were liberated none of the metal head western imperialists who saw that unmitigated horror ever fired high ever again, understanding that some wars are righteous!

Particularly one started by a mad dog dictator!

But pure evil personified hitler and the nazi SS and their activities on the russian front, pale in comparison to look like benign boy scouts, when compared with the mass murdering rampage and intent of an army of mad rabid dogs that are the only way to describe ISIS and the entirely mindless mass murder, beastial rape and sexual slavery they are now infamous for!

Of course we must defend ourselves and all the potential victims of this pure incarnate evil by all possible means.

These "men" are real heroes, when the enemy is defenceless unarmed children ,women and old men! I'd like to see them confronting a professional army that, like our heroic diggers (civilian army) on the Kakoda trail, make/take a determined stand, whatever the cost, in order to push these abominations back into the hell holes that spawned them!
Rhosty.

Rhosty: Of course we must defend ourselves and all the potential victims of this pure incarnate evil by all possible means.

That even means you Killarney. But if you wouldn't want us too. We could hand you & you Ilk over to these people such as ISIS. Just to make you happy.

Who said anything about carrying weapons in public by trained volunteers? I have no idea why my aricle is being deliberately misinterpeted by some who have an irrational opposition to conscription.

The scenario is when civilans, not "volunteers with weapons in public," are caught in a terrorist situation and because of previous national service, have at least some options to use in order to save themselves and those around them. Much in the same way someone has first aid training etc.

It's not about vigilantism. Under Victorian State law, 1958 Crimes Act, Section 458, the average person has powers of arrest, incorrectly labelled a citizens arrest, as well as "use of force" under Section 462A to effect an arrest or to defend themselves from assault.

Going to school is also a requirement for young people.

I see nothing wrong in conscription teaching the population self defence skills as well as how to act in a potential crisis.

Conscription is worse than rape, because rape, however painful, is over in a few minutes while conscription is a torture that lasts for years.

If ever Australia introduces conscription, then first I would be straight out of here and second, I would be happy to see it torn to shreds by Islamic terrorists.

Forcing young people to go to school is indeed very very wrong - but not anywhere as wrong as conscription.

At least there, children can select and change schools. There are alternative schools and if worse comes to worst, then there is the option of home schooling! School-children are not required to remain in school 24x7 and are not required to blindly obey all the orders of their teachers and if they fail to obey such an order, especially orders that require them to do things they abhor or that are contrary to their conscience or religion, also if they are late or their shoes are not sufficiently polished or are laced in the wrong direction or a shirt-button is left open, or they fail to salute, etc., they are not locked up in a cell, then required to spend even more years in school as punishment.

Sadism is not a new phenomena, but dressing it as caring for "civil liberties and intrusion into one's private life" comes straight out of George Orwell's book, 1984: "War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength".

Regarding trained volunteers, I never meant that they would remain on duty, but rather that they volunteer to be trained and subsequently could carry weapons in public as free civilians. I don't think that it is currently required, only that government could choose to do so if and when terrorism becomes a bigger problem in Australia.

yutsie: If ever Australia introduces conscription, then first I would be straight out of here and second, I would be happy to see it torn to shreds by Islamic terrorists.

I hear that after the next election they are going to make National Service Compulsory for everyone. Bye.

Team Uzi: I have no idea why my aricle is being deliberately misinterpeted by some who have an irrational opposition to conscription.

Because going off half cocked is what Green, Politically Correct Lefties do. Exaggerate, exaggerate, panic, the sky is falling. Don't take any notice of them, unfortunately they don't go away

Dear Jayb,

<<I hear that after the next election they are going to make National Service Compulsory for everyone. Bye.>>

And along those lines don't forget compulsory male-comfort service for the ladies...

Rhrosty

The vast majority of those heads that were being 'fired over' in WWII were almost certainly conscripts themselves. Many of the major wars in history were fought with conscripts. In fact, without conscripts, they couldn't have been fought at all. Conscription is nothing new. For centuries, peasants faced being thrown off their lands (and much worse) if they refused to fight the local lord's petty power struggles with a bunch of other lords.

And ah, yes ... the camps. Thank goodness for Godwin's Law! That perennial reminder that we are the good guys of history - always were, always will be!

Unfortunately, when it comes to camps and other horrors, Britain's military legacy is up there with the best and nastiest. In fact, WWII was probably the first time the British empire ever had to fight an enemy as evil as itself.

And by the way, Australians voted twice against conscription in WWI. Had Billy Hughes got his way, and fulfilled his promise of another 50,000 conscripts for the British empire's disposal, tens of thousands more young Australians would have died in that empire spat, and their families devastated.

Team Uzunov

We seem to agree to some extent about citizens being given, or acquiring, the training to defend themselves and others against acts of terrorism and other physical threats. However, we disagree on method. You want young people involuntarily corralled into a military institution to teach them those skills (along with lots of dubious military values to go with them).

I don't.

YOU NEED SOMETHING TO FIGHT FOR AND WORTH PRESERVING! What - Jams? Chutneys?

Personally I don't want to fight for anything, let alone compulsory military service, be it male or female involvement. I'd have to turn my television set off, due to the political overload.

And yes..... the time has come for average citizens to stand up for themselves, within the law of course - yes that's why I am now going out for dinner.

Team Uzi,
"Isn't conscription going overboard? No, it's not. Let me put it to you this way: hypothetically speaking would you prefer to do 18 months national service or would you prefer ASIO or government bureaucrats gain more power and monitor all your emails, phone calls because of terrorism fears? Or be stripped searched at airports?"
How many people do you imagine are stupid enough to accept that false dichotomy?

Conscription would be of no value whatsoever against terrorists. But what it would do is make a large proportion of the population view the government as the enemy. And if it's done anything like the way it was in the past, it would also result in many suicides.

So FWIW while both your options are highly undesirable, conscription is orders of magnitude worse.

"The time has come for average citizens to stand up for themselves, within the law of course."
Anyone standing up for themselves would reject such a proposal.

You hypocritically rant about civill liberties while advocating stripping citizens of their freedom for 18 months!

Haven't you ever heard what Ronald Reagan said about conscription?

Sasha

You say, “Time and time again, we have witnessed Westerners without a sense of identity embrace Jihadist ideology”.

Therefore it comes down to why are they without a sense of identity? The Grand Mufti of Australia obviously had a problem in expressing his condemnation of the murder of Mr Cheng at Parramatta? He had to backtrack his first news release with a second release due to public outcry.

A further example what they are being told by Islamic Organisation Hizab ut-Tahir - I quote from Daily Telegraph 3/11/2015 "Sydney Muslims should shun government counter terrorism programs and disrupt police investigations, Islamic organisation Hizab ut-Tahir says. The Sydney-based organisation claimed the federal government was forcing them to become "Aussie Muslims". The government targets the Muslim community under the guise of counter-terrorism policy, seeking to mould the community in the way it wants - a way unacceptable to Muslims".

The Australian Government has just spent a further $47M on de-radicalising our youngsters.

What message does the above organisation send to youth? Why are we spending $47M to re-radicalise youngsters when they listen to the above spiel?

We have marches in support of “Say No to Domestic Violence” and other worthy causes.

I note the Grand Mufti, Imans or other leaders of the Islamic faith haven’t got their followers together and organised any march protesting against the “Jihadist Ideology” whose ideals lead to destroying many young lives.

They preach the Koran is a book of peace – a public march against Jihadist Ideology would certainly prove to us and our Government they are working with their youth to “dispel the myths” of Jihadist Ideology.

Australia continues to welcome all newcomers no matter the race, creed, colour or religion. Australia is a safe country, with boundless opportunities. However, there are those who wish to harm the very country that’s provided a safe haven. Why?
cont'd

cont'd

It’s time the Grand Mufti, Imans and other leaders stand up and speak up publicly in all newspapers, in condemnation of Jihadist Ideology, and of those who wish to radicalise our youth.

You say - “Islamic State and its franchise followers, have breached Fortress Australia”.

Correct. The Grand Mufti, Inmans and other leaders must now stand up and unite as one to dispel the myths of Jihadist Ideology, they will certainly have Australia’s support.