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The Forum > Article Comments > Asylum seekers, Waleed Aly and the folly of good intentions > Comments

Asylum seekers, Waleed Aly and the folly of good intentions : Comments

By John Slater, published 12/2/2016

The grand folly of this approach is that while it’s easy to paint offshore processing as callous and cold-hearted, we can’t pretend that this issue exists in a vacuum.

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(continued)
I'm certainly not suggesting continually carrying 93% on welfare. We should aim to get them into the workforce quickly. But I notice that figure is a few years old, and I would expect more of them to be in work by now. And I've previously heard that most of those who aren't in work are in education, so will presumably become taxpayers in the future.

If refugees can't already speak english then generally they should be resettled in a country other than Australia. An exception is the small proportion of refugees who are persecuted in Indonesia.

Do you have a reference for that Senate Committee figure?

The fact remains that most refugees have no opportunity to get into "the queue".
Posted by Aidan, Thursday, 18 February 2016 1:11:02 AM
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Aidan says:

"When something is illegal it tends to become lucrative, hence the criminal gangs. But that doesn't mean everyone involved in people smuggling is bad. Many are, of course, but far from all. And most are not trading people."

People smuggling is an illegal, parasitic activity, but "that doesn't mean everyone involved in people smuggling is bad"??!!

"Many are...but far from all. And most are not trading people."

What the hell are you talking about, Aidan? Any idea?
Posted by calwest, Friday, 19 February 2016 9:33:40 AM
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Calwest, I have not heard of a good smuggler.
None of them send out properly loaded boats, always they are overloaded.
The boats out of Indonesia are always on their last legs.
The fisherman will not sell their good boats they need them.
Anything the smugglers get are probably clapped out.

Certainly they might do for a bit of coastal fishing, but not for ocean voyaging.
The same in Turkey look at those inflatables they use, packed to the gunnels.
I would not get in them to cross Sydney Harbour.

The only good smuggler is a drowned one.
Posted by Bazz, Friday, 19 February 2016 2:38:45 PM
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calwest,

Governments have promoted the stereotype of people smugglers as evil.

The reality is very different.
Or more accurately, partly very different, as there are many evil people in the people smuggling industry.

But there are also good people, with a genuine desire to help persecuted people.

And there are also fisherman trying to make a living after the Timor Sea fisheries were devastated by an enormous oil spill from an Australian oil rig. The problem was similar, and on a similar scale, to what subsequently occurred in the Gulf of Mexico, but it received much less media attention and most of the people affected did not receive compensation.

You said people trading is illegal. And you're right. But the term "people trading" implies slavery, which is absolutely nothing to do with bringing people to Australia by boat. Even the term "people trafficking" can give that implication, so it's best to avoid using it in this context and look instead at what's actually going on.

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Bazz, when Australia destroys the boats that people smugglers use, it's hardly surprising that they're reluctant to use the good ones. If indeed they have good ones. As I said, many are only in the people smuggling business because they're broke.
Posted by Aidan, Friday, 19 February 2016 3:49:23 PM
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Aidan, you used the term "people trading", I did not. You attribute to the term a meaning which equals "slavery", I did not.

In fact, your definition of "people trading" seems to me to be unique to you.

Your extremely discriminating assessment of people smugglers as "some good, some bad" is also unique to you. To me, a people smuggler is just a people smuggler, someone who is intent on breaking Australian law. They are all - ALL - just evil crooks.

Grow up, Aidan, they're doing it for money, they're not some perverted form of freedom fighter.
Posted by calwest, Friday, 19 February 2016 8:18:41 PM
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Aidan

You say - “Firstly, let's get one thing straight: boats crossing our borders do not threaten our borders. Protecting the nation's borders is one of the most important duties of any government, but stopping the boats had NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with border protection”.

Response – So 50,000 “illegal boat people” including 8,000 children arriving on our shores with no documentation or identification as to who or where they really come from is not a threat to Australia? There is a great difference between “legitimate” refugees and “economic” illegal boat people – queue jumpers.

You say – .” Border security is a completely different issue that's much less important, and our borders have CONSTANTLY been among the most secure in the world”.

Answer – Gee, did you miss those 50,000 “illegal boat people” arriving on our shores?

You say – “And yes, I really do believe that the "saving lives at sea" claim is a lie to justify xenophobic policies, not a genuine concern for their lives”

Response – That’s your belief. It’s not mine.

You say – .” And I remind you that we don't know how many have been lost at sea after the Libs came in because they don't comment on operational matters. But what we are doing to them now is evil. Not only are we failing to help them, but we're preventing them from helping themselves and preventing NZ from helping them as well.”
continued
Posted by SAINTS, Sunday, 21 February 2016 10:26:01 PM
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