Hi ttbn, mhaze,

So it's a bit like the position of the Bible in, say, 1450, before the invention of the printing press in Europe ? The Muslim world didn't have a single printing press until 1824 (Jack Goody, I think).

But information is now far, far easier to come by, everywhere - for that, one doesn't need a printing press, just a mobile. And of course, many Muslims these days would be literate anyway, and be able to read English or French or Bahasa.

Well, those are signs of hope.

Would it be easier to learn longer surahs than shorter ones ? That doesn't sound plausible: surely it's easier to learn Baa Baa Black Sheep than The Ancient Mariner ?

On one Google site, by the way, it was claimed that the whole idea of abrogation is a lie, that all the surahs, no matter how contradictory, are as originally passed down.

So, again like the Bible, there is something for everyone in the Koran - for ISIS, AND for the men of 'peace'. Anybody can take their lead from it: just pick out what you like.

If this is so, then there must be scope for any believer to interpret the Koran as he or she wishes, and tell anybody holding a contradictory interpretation to bugger off.

Another sign of hope :)

Thanks again,

Joe

Islam has been at war since the 7th century, what the West mistakenly assumed to be 'peace' was simply an unofficial truce because of the civilised world's superior firepower.
Surveys have demonstrated that many so-called 'moderate' Muslims support Sharia and other Islamic horrors and Muslim communities in the West provide an inexhaustible supply of instant jihadis. So whether or not the majority of Muslims is peaceful and law abiding is really irrelevant in the long term.

Of course the other threat is presented by the constant accommodation to Muslims' demands by the multi-culti clique of useful idiots.

Mac you are correct when you talk of what the West considers a gesture of "peace" from Muslims in the context of armed conflict.

In fact the Arabic word for that behaviour is 'hudna". It does not as Westerners believe mean "peace" or "ceasefire" or such like in response to the counter party's superior firepower or better argument.

Instead it means "calm" or what some of us may call "time out". Doing so does not mean the Muslims are yielding one jot.

Instead they are merely taking the time to regroup, rearm and in time reterorrise.

In the cause of Islamo-deconstruction, or Islamocritica, I've been puzzling about Muhammad (assuming he existed) and his earlier life. He was a trader, presumably in incense (see http://nabataea.net/trader.html ), so is it really possible that he could have been illiterate, and innumerate ? Really ? A trader in a pretty tough environment, and with a limited range of goods which could just as well have been transported by sea ?

Then there's how he is supposed to have died. Supposedly, on his death-bed, he flew on a winged horse to Jerusalem and climbed up Jacob's Ladder, the only way - in the Jewish view - to reach heaven. So the Jewish belief was taken up 100 % by the early Muslims ? And that, and only that, is why Jerusalem is supposed to be so sacred to Muslims, - it now belongs to them because Muhammad went there on a winged horse ?

Well, I hope the Grand Mufti stays well and doesn't have to get on a winged wombat to fly him to the Opera House.

The Koran contains such a jumble of contradictory clauses, verses, that anybody can quote from it for whatever purpose they like. Some clerics believe that, by a process of abrogation, one can comfortably read it and ignore the verses that one doesn't agree with. If so, it would be great if people could read a version of the Koran without the nasty bits: to help this along, here is a sample list of abrogations:

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/List_of_Abrogations_in_the_Qur'an

Clearly, in light of the atrocities being committed in its name, Islam desperately needs reform, and abrogation of the more violent verses in the Koran would be a start. Muslims need our sympathy and support in their long road to clean out the rubbish that the Islamo-fascists rely on.

Joe

In the 1980s a movie appeared called RED DAWN. its premise was that the US was overtaken by the Soviet Union in a conventional war and a group of teenagers led by Patrick Swayze were the only thing existing that could prevent an absolute total soviet domination. They eventually form a guerilla group, fight back and single handedly defeat the soviets.
Until i read this review it had It remained for me THE most ludicrous premise for a piece of fiction i had ever come across.
just take a moment to think about this.
in 2022 a Muslim party gains a majority in the French parliament. a majority! in a French parliament!!
Which parallel universe does Mr Ariel inhabit? certainly not the universe that the rest of us inhabit. the chances of this scenario occurring a hundred years from now are just slightly more than zero. but 7 years from now?
So Mr Ariel proceeds to build a straw man based upon a novel with a premise so ludicrous that it is laughable, and then warns that the sky is about to fall in because of the lessons learnt from this Alice In Wonderland scenario.
Give me a break

Greetings Shalmaneser,

Judging by your comments not only have you not read the book, but you attribute comments to me which I neither made nor implied.

You state that I said that “in 2022 a Muslim party gains a majority in the French parliament. a majority! in a French parliament!!
Which parallel universe does Mr Ariel inhabit? certainly not the universe that the rest of us inhabit”

I believe I said said they take power. Never did I say they win a majority.
They take power by forming an alliance with everyone other than Marine Le Pen’s Front National. The other major parties, being the socialists (bonjour Francois Hollande!) and the centrists would be in opposition without getting into bed with the Muslim rothers.

The price for having the Muslim Brothers join is to allow them to introduce Shari’a. A small price given most French are apathetic.

Anyone who has been to France, the Benelux countries or Sweden can see this locomotive of change steaming along very nicely.

Merci.