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The Forum > Article Comments > The Climate Wars and the damage to science > Comments

The Climate Wars and the damage to science : Comments

By Matt Ridley, published 9/11/2015

Most disappointing is the way that science has joined in turning a blind eye to the distortion and corruption of the scientific process itself.

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JF Aus,
I'd like to clarify what you are suggesting by turning it around.

Have you studied how CO2 traps heat? Have you *seen* it trap heat, as measured by Fourier devices or simple home experiments? Have you seen the mathematics behind the Radiative Forcing Equation, and how it has concluded that extra CO2 is adding 4 Hiroshima bombs per second to the heat energy of earth?

If not, why not?
Posted by Max Green, Sunday, 15 November 2015 4:22:56 PM
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@ Aidan, Saturday, 14 November 2015 11:45:55 AM
(sorry Max and ant, I was meaning reference asked for by Aidan, all good)

Re 1.
I think there would be a difference in the heat absorbing rate between distilled water and water containing dissolved CO2.
Multiply that rate by the volume of algae in oceans and I think the difference will be NOTICED.

Solar heat travels deeper into the ocean surface than the land surface. There is vastly more ocean surface that land surface. That’s all for science to equate.

Cold air comes down from mountains at night, having a cooling effect at night.

Exposure of photographic film shows increase in water depth decreases radiation subject to water clarity subject to dissolved and/or suspended matter.

Re 2.
If adequate N&P and other nutrient was not present then algae would not be present, and it would be obvious neither solar warmth nor CO2 nor climate change are causing algae to bloom.
Historically, unprecedented algae and algae blooms are nor occurring, coinciding with unprecedented nutrient loading/s entering ocean ecosystems from an unprecedented high population of humans on this planet.
Manage the problem instead of ignoring it, begin at the 30 Nov 2015 Paris talks.

Re 3.
Think why algae might carry warmth into hours of darkness.
Algae surely insulates water within the algae.
If algae was not present then warmth in water would rise upward more easily at sundown and dissipate more quickly as usual, without impact of human activity.

Globally? I notice cooling beneath algae associated rain cloud on one side of the world while drought and dryness occurs on the other side. One likely cancels temperature impact of the other.
There is a limit to the distance noticeable heat from a heated element can travel.
Warm water in the ocean has vertical and horizontal ability to cling together without quickly mixing with cold water.
Winds travel quickly, water very slowly in comparison.

@ Max Green, Sunday, 15 November 2015 4:22:56 PM
No, I have not.
Why?
My focus is on algae causing malnutrition among seafood dependent people, and possible solutions.
Posted by JF Aus, Sunday, 15 November 2015 5:07:15 PM
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Why? Why bother reading about CO2? Because you seem to be dismissing climate science and suggesting it is algae that causes climate change, and you haven't even analysed the evidence for what peer-reviewed science has already concluded long ago!? After all, what is this thread even about?
Posted by Max Green, Sunday, 15 November 2015 6:14:38 PM
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@Max Green, Sunday, 15 November 2015 6:14:38 PM

Relax, Max.
It was you who asked me why.
Look back at your post at about 4pm. You asked if I had "studied" those subjects. I said no.

I have read considerable news about CO2 but I don't have enough understanding or time to study CO2 in order to say CO2 is definitely not contributing at all.
But I think algae is.

Have you studied algae, or have you read considerable news about algae?

I think science is being damaged because the door to debate about CO2 seems shut.
CO2ists seem to have made up their mind CO2 is the cause and that's it, finish, no more science about the subject.
Consequently respect for science seems to have decreased, a greater number of would be students are reportedly not going into science.

I don't even know what one tonne of CO2 looks like. Do you?
How is it packaged in order to be weighed? What size is the package?

However I think science is the solution to algae and most problems, especially to very urgently engage in harnessing nutrient waste to produce algae for biofuel, thus reducing the nutrient over-loading dumped in oceans.
The seemingly incomplete science argument causing the "climate war" may then decrease and even cease.

Meanwhile I suggest watch out for worsening of already worse consequences of nutrient pollution, such as unnecessary mortality of marine animals and seafood dependent island people.

Remember, the algae could not exist if nutrient was not there, even if excess CO2 was there.
Absolutely it is not CO2-linked warmth alone causing algae to increase and bloom like it is.
http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2015/11/14/toxic-ocean-algae-events-conservation-group-warns
Posted by JF Aus, Monday, 16 November 2015 12:37:47 AM
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JF Aus, the reference you provided does not support your opinion on two accounts; acidification, and CO2 capturing warmth.

Your reference states ..."According to the centre, studies show that harmful algae like the one that produces domain acid can be five times more toxic at levels of ocean acidification that are already occurring off the state’s coast."

Also..."We must cut carbon emissions to decrease warming waters,” Valdivia said. “The science is clear. Now we, as a human society, just need the political will to act on that knowledge.”

Science very clearly shows through experimentation that CO2 captures warmth.
You need to provide very clear references.
Posted by ant, Monday, 16 November 2015 5:52:19 AM
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@ ant, Monday, 16 November 2015 5:52:19 AM
ant,
The reference I provided yesterday was intended by me to show concern about the amount of algae these days and some of the impact it is having.
Dialogue by author of the piece is really about claiming CO2 is causing the warmth and the algae and animal death.

Valdivia is wrong because the science is not clear, climate science is incomplete especially because it does not include measurement and assessment of all ocean algae on this planet and the impact it is now causing compared to natural impact.

What is science doing to decrease sewage and land use nutrient proliferating historically unprecedented now over abundant common algae and algae blooms?

Warmth in ocean algae plant matter has not been shown by science, has it, or can anyone provide scientific reference to the contrary?

A basic science experiment using say 3 beakers of water side by side in the same sunlit situation for a month, one with distilled water, one with tap water, one with moderate nutrient loaded water, will show difference in temperature hour by hour from say 9am until 11pm on fine sunlit days.
The moderate nutrient loaded water with algae will carry warmth into night, say until about 11pm
The tap water will have similar outcome.
The distilled water virtually without algae will cool much earlier, soon after sundown.

Algae carries warmth longer than if no algae.
Posted by JF Aus, Monday, 16 November 2015 8:55:05 AM
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