"Obama's failure to test Putin's sincerity could risk America's Middle East policy being seriously compromised."

Exactly which policy is that?

http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2015/10/06/432230/US-Syria-Russians-Brzezinski
http://www.mintpressnews.com/exporting-revolution-zbigniew-brzezinski-on-trial-at-the-un-general-assembly/210126/

I would have thought a 62-nation coalition, by its very nature, could hardly be isolated.

Cruise missiles being fired by the Russian Navy frigate on the Caspian Sea is a victory for Putin. It recalls the glory of the Royal Navy battle of Lake Tanganyika.
"To counter this threat, Lee proposed that motor gunboats be sent to Africa and transported through the interior to the lake.[7] They would be small and highly manoeuvrable, and—if armed with a gun with a range of 7,000 yd (6,400 m)—could both outrun and outgun the larger German ships.[10] Using small vessels that could be transported intact meant that they could be launched immediately onto the lake, eliminating the risk of their discovery and destruction while being assembled.[11] Sir Henry considered the plan and approved it with the words "It is both the duty and the tradition of the Royal Navy to engage the enemy wherever there is water to float a ship."[

David, a useful comment but there are some unanswered questions. The US (and Australia's) bombing of Syria is not of dubious legality; it is clearly illegal under Article 51 of the UN Charter. Russia's actions on the other hand are entirely legal under international law because they are at the invitation of the lawful Syrian government. What has happened to Australia's bombing since the Russians arrived? There is a curious silence from our FM on this point.
Secondly, you might have mentioned that the US has been allegedly attacking IS for a year, notably without success. The Russians claim to have destroyed 40% of IS capability in one week. Why is that do you suppose?
Thirdly, the remarkable hypocrisy of the US and its allies is in full view with (a) their complaints that Russia is bombing the terrorists they support and not just IS; and (b) refusing to share intelligence about IS because the Russians are not distinguishing between terrorist group A vs terrorist group B vs terrorist group C etc.
It is little wonder that the Iraqi government is now seriously contemplating asking for Russian help as American reluctance to seriously attack IS (which really is the Middle East branch of US terror policy) is leaving Iraq in even more of a shambles than that caused by the initial illegal invasion by the US and its ever willing ally, Australia.
The silence from our FM on these developments is deafening.

I think it can only be helpful to Israel if its doorstep becomes an arena for superpower confrontation.

Yes a Russian coalition of Willing Shiite countries/militias (Iran, Iraq, Assad's Syria and Hezbollah in Lebanon) is nothing to be sneezed at, but should be cherished.

This will tend to encourage US boots on the ground in defence of Israel and the good oil rich states of Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and the UAE.

Israel likes Western troops defending its neighbourhood as it feels lonely and they're nice.

Don't mention Israel. A few shots into Syria and you'll get Assad , Moderate freedom lovers, ISIS , Iran , Iraq , rogue Turks, Libyan, Yemeni , Chechyn and Sydney schools pouring ammo into Tel Aviv.

Hi James

Truth be told Abbott's decision to fly Australian aircraft directly over Syria to bomb IS targets was unnecessary to the war effort. The decision was more about his last desperate attempts to stay in power by boosting his "I am a warrior in a scary War" political brand.

US intelligence has admitted in quiet forums that it has fewer targets for bombs in Syria. IS has learned to keep a lower profile out of bombs' way.

However Obama, rolling his eyes, could not publically say "no" to Abbott's warlike "help" over Syria.

And yes, Australia's bombing of targets in Syria is illegal in UN law and also other international laws.

Hi Peter. It is only in the Wizard of Oz that there were good witches and bad witches. To the Russians, to extend the metaphor, they are all just witches and they will kill the lot. I am not sure that the Americans ran out of targets because of "low profile" ISIS. I think the evidence is overwhelming that they had no intention of really going after them at all, any more than the Turks. Another questions for David: how did ISIS manage to transport $3 million of oil across the Turkish border every day, unmolested? One answer may be that the company selling oil on ISIS's behalf just happens to be run by Erdogan's son. A hospital in Turkey that treats wounded ISIS fighters is run by Erdogan's daughter.
Further questions: why has ISIS not attacked Israeli targets? Could it be because ISIS wounded are also being treated in Israeli military hospitals in the Golan Heights? I don't think David Singer would ever want to go there!

Aleksei Mikhailovich Chaly (Russian: born 13 June 1961) is a businessman and formerly de facto mayor of Sevastopol. He declared himself mayor in February 2014.
Putin accepted his legal invitation to move Crimea to the right.
Mr B Obama of Pine Gap submarine missile facility , Northern Territory, accepted Tony "Start the bombs" Abbott's invitation to invite Canberra to Iraqi Sunni in Syria. Malaysian Airlines have not been invited by Kurdish border shifters pending Ukraine fascist invitations to themselves.

Dear nicknamenick from Jindavik

Let me correct thee.

The Dad of Aleksei Mikhailovich Chaly (Russian: born 13 June 1961) was, in fact, Raputin B. Bear, Grand Rabbi of Moscow. His girlchild was one Vladimir "Poopsie" Putin.

Yes, the same!! Who after coming out as both Lesbian, Tranzsexual and Jewish is President for Life, Russia, 2600.

Boris "Hotlips" Obama, Commodore, Pine Gap submarine missile facility, is a Myth. It is an artesian boar naval base as any far left troty greeny nose.

Yours

Poida
Head Stool Keeper
Kremlin Monkey House

..........................right.. aha.
IS , Yiddish Shalom. The Knesset Kremlin Krimea Kurdish Khannaka Haka Kack synagogue of Hamas Mossad is putin on the Ritz. Is ISIS as I suspect , a Muslim Mussolini Mitzvah?

Never mind Iraq in the mix, please read this brilliant piece on why the U.S. Has made a mess of it all. Reading this should not be missed:

http://cluborlov.blogspot.com.au/2015/10/the-worlds-silliest-empire.html

I have not laughed so much for a long time, go team USA!

Geoff of Perth, spot on, who would have thought we would see America ruled by an atheist, communist dictator & Russia led by a christian, conservative capitalist?

Plantagenet, still flying the red flag of your religion leftism & supporting your muslim brotherhood.

Geoff, thanks for the link. Hugely enjoyable but also right on the button. If only our msm had the cojones to publish something like this.

Hi Poida & Nickanick,

I must be getting old and thicker, but what the hell are you talking bout ? if it's meant to be extreme sarcasm, or crazy-talk, riddles, puzzles within puzzles, then you've succeeded.

There's a couple of minutes of my life never to be retrieved.

Joe

Dis is like "Dear John" letter Joe

"or crazy-talk, riddles, puzzles within puzzles" is correct.

That Vladimir "Poopsie" Putin's Russian ultra-violence is better than any other Syria-side just show's he gotta righteous spirit to turn Damascus into Stalingrad a la Clockwork Orange...

Putin's Caspian cruise missiles are bigger than Obama's anyday Nya! Nya! even if they do hit Iran umm mostly - a lil miss between comrades kapish?

Yours

Poida
Turnball Home Server Hacker
Hukka
https://youtu.be/EMEv5SwtKGk

I suppose we all need the balm of idiocy in the midst of such complexity.

So: out there in the real world, Russia is wiping out the non-ISIS opposition to Assad's dictatorship. Once they have been destroyed and/or dispersed, will the Russians then attack ISIS ? Perhaps not: they will more likely each launch separate attacks on the Kurds than on each other.

But sooner or later, the Russians will have to face ISIS, and in both Syria and Iraq (although maybe they'll leave the Iraq job to the Iranians). After all, until they defeat ISIS, can the Russians withdraw ? Would they leave Assad to ISIS ? Wouldn't that defeat their reason for supporting Assad in the first place, and for strengthening their hold on naval and air bases in western Syria ? So, now that they are in, they are in for the long haul. And then there's Turkey.

So will it become another Afghanistan for the Russians ? Another Vietnam ? Not to mention the possibility that, when the Taliban take over Afghanistan next year, Afghanistan could become another of Russia's Afghanistans, degas view all over again. Not to mention the spread of Islamist terrorism into central Asia and into Russia's backyard. And into its Caucasus.

Can Putin fight wars on three fronts - Ukraine, Syria AND central Asia, including Afghanistan ? Well, four fronts, if Georgia decides to exert its right to reclaim the areas which Russia invaded back in 2008. Oh, and Crimea. And the Caucasus.

And if the Taliban morphs into ISIS-in-Central-Asia (ISISCA), what might its influence be on paranoid Pakistan ? By that time, the Beef Wars in India will have hotted up and they would have great larks getting stuck into each other.

Isn't it fun to be a spectator of all of this ? Just so long as it doesn't spread to Indonesia ......

Joe

Hi Joe "Loudmouth"

Putin is shrewder than previous demented (Andropov and Brezhnev) or drunken (Yeltsin) Russian leaders.

I'm afraid Russia (and Assad) will eventually make a mutual non-interference agreement with ISIS while they all roll up the Western backed anti-Assad forces (including Kurds in Syria).

After that Assad/Russia vs ISIS may come to more understandings on territorial and oil revenue rights.

It is Obama, his Coalition and fake moderates who will be the suckers again, expensively, as in Iraq (2003-2010) and Afghanistan (2001- present day).

Winners in the Middle East are all "dance with the Devil" types. Reagan understood that and did well.

Cheers

Pete

Putin has achieved in a couple of weeks what the USA pretends to achieve in 13 mths. The truth is ISIS is a USA/Zionist creation being used to bring Assad down. Syria and Iran are allies of Russia and Western war mongers still want their totalitarian New World Order.

The real worry is than Israel that is owned by the Rothschild banking cabal ,will in desperation,bring on a nuclear WW3.300 yrs of debt money counterfeiting is the source of their evil power. Will it end with a bang or a whimper ?

Thanks Arjay for injecting some humour into this serious discussion. Loved that non sequitur about Israel :)

Joe

Arjay,
"Putin has achieved in a couple of weeks what the USA pretends to achieve in 13 mths."

Its not over yet, not by a long shot.
My fear is that its really only just the beginning.

I don't think the US is going to give in on Assad.
I see both sides trying to get military leverage to force the other into a more preferable negotiating position, but it could be a fools game since I'm not sure either is willing to give in.

CIA just sent the rebels 500 anti tank TOW missile systems.

We know there's been a long term strategy to destabilize M/E nations.
These actions may be the US defending the petrodollar and US economy.

I think Russia was forced to act because ISIS was already selling cheap oil (To Erdogan's son apparently) and together with Saudi Arabia were undermining the oil market, and pipelines from Saudi Arabia to Europe through Syria would challenge Russian economic interests as well.

The Russian intervention's turned the tides on the ground to some extent.
(Assad's forces lost 10 tanks and other support vehicles from the TOWS in a battle on the outskirts of Hama a couple days ago.)

The FSA were expecting a no-fly zone (done as part of US deals with Turkey to use Incirlik Air base) and thats off the table because the Russian's have established their own no-fly zone with the Moskva's S-300 systems.

They're feeling hung out to dry and are asking for supplies which is probably why they got the TOW's.

Russia has also been testing out its electronic weapons systems
(It demoralised the crew of the Donald Cook last year when a Sukhoi 24M armed with 'Khibiny' shut down the cruisers AEGIS systems in the Black Sea).
The Sukhoi 34's with 'Khibiny' are apparently able to mess with US fighters targeting systems.

I expect US officials are trying to make deals with China over the South China Sea in order to keep them out of the crisis.
Their carrier's been docked in Tartus for several weeks, their Shenyang J-15's are expected anytime.

Israel stands to gain if Assad goes by cutting military supplies from Iran to Hezbollah and probably doing so will probably reduce support for the Palestinians.

But I think one of the big things is $ ka-ching AFEK oil who I mentioned in one of Davids threads a few weeks ago who have now just released news of their massive oil discovery in the Golan Heights, and remember investors include Jacob Rothschild, Rupert Murdoch and Dick Cheney.
http://www.ibtimes.com/israel-oil-discovery-massive-reserve-could-meet-domestic-demand-obstacles-production-2130639
I think deals may have been done with Israel and Saudi Arabia over this oil, as I heard its in a deeper layer than the Saudi oil and may actually be able to tap into the Saudi reserves.

Is it just a coincidence that news of this oil discovery occurs right at a point where Assad's regime looked like it faced certain defeat?
I'm not sure.

http://www.middleeasteye.net/columns/how-islamist-rebels-engineered-israel-s-oil-grab-syria-740568063

Yep that was a really good blog article Geoff of Perth.
I heard the patients were burning in their beds in the strikes on the hospital.
Apparently it really was a completely blatent attack and a true war crime.
And he forgot Victoria Nuland (F' the EU) who's also usually off trying to organise the takedown of some foreign country.

Here is some more interesting takes on the situation in the ME

http://www.globalresearch.ca/syria-russian-intervention-exposes-coalition-lies-the-terrorists-r-us/5480359 and,

http://www.globalresearch.ca/why-the-u-s-owns-the-rise-of-islamic-state-and-the-syria-disaster/5480948

Geoff

Very good posts Geoff of Perth. http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2015/10/10/decisive-shift-power-balance-occurred-paul-craig-roberts/
Yes there has been a decisive shift in power and Germany and France look like joining Russia and China because the world is sick of the USA which is controlled by central bankers that have destroyed the world economy with money printing via debt.

We are in far worse shape than before the Great Depression. Many people were paid in cash and a lot of our money was thus created debt free. Also the West had real jobs in manufacturing and many people lived on farms being self sufficient. Now most of us live in cities earning a living through servant industries. Many of these jobs are not necessary for survival and will evaporate when the world debt that is more than 3 times world GDP and the gambling derivative market 21 times world GDP,implode. When this happens as in the past, our Central Bankers always take us to war.

Russia and China via the BRICS are trying to avert war and have development with new technologies to alleviate poverty. It is the debt money creation system that is the very source of poverty on our planet. Only money that already exits should have debt attached. Inflationary money created as debt,eventually enslaves all our economies.

So let's see now:

* ISIS is a creation of the US; or of Israel; or both, of course;

* ISIS will do a deal with the Russians, and with Assad;

So, nobody is really going to go to war against ISIS, not really. But what if Iraq and Iran don't play along, and have this crazy notion to fight ISIS ? Will their old and new allies try to talk them out of it ? And if ISIS knows this is the game, what's to stop them re-locating their main forces against Iraq ?

So all we need is some evidence that Iraq, Iran and ISIS are not really fighting each other, that they have done some sort of deal, like everybody else, like their allies.

Right.

Yes indeed, fiction is more fascinating than fact.

Joe

What exactly has Bashar-al Assad been convicted of?

On what justifiable grounds based on what conclusive evidence according to the US, does Assad "have to go"?

There is need for peace and prosperity.

Armchair,
Don't get too excited about the Golan Heights oil find.

http://www.globes.co.il/en/article-how-seriously-should-we-take-the-golan-oil-find-1001072026

A billion barrels sound a lot but it is only just over 10 days world
consumption.

Talking of "Massive Oil Find" is a technique to boost the share value
and improve chances of better funding interest rates.
It will be very useful for Israel as it might produce a good fraction
of their consumption.

Bazz you should be talking things up instead of downgrading it all.

JFA
Assad is an ally of Russia and the US would rather Syria was an ally of the US. Syria has been a bugbear for the US for decades. Russia also has a naval base in Syria as well. That is Assad's crime.

Doog said;
Bazz you should be talking things up instead of downgrading it all.

Ahh well doog, just call it realism !
There has never been an announcement like this'

The Optimus Oil Company announced a small oil show at its drilling
just a few hundred miles from Woop Woop.
It may produce at 100 barrel a day if we are lucky.

The company invites investors to take part in funding the further
development of the field.

Precisely Joe Loudmouth

“I could not help myself. It’s the Middle East.” said the Scorpion to the Frog.

Then they both sank into the muddy waters.

see https://danceswithcamels.wordpress.com/fables-and-stories-of-the-middle-east/

:)

Poida

Bazz
Could be a capital raising exercise. They may have found the remains of a cat.

My vehicle has a synthetic oil these days. What ever that is. The US must have oil to spare, they can’t be worried about keeping it for themselves.

With the world turning away from oil, slowly but surely it can only be a good . Manufacturing of recycled plastic is getting prominent these days. Recycled plastic house framing and bicycle frames are on offer also

Hi JF,

Yes, possibly all those Syrians crossing the sea to Europe are just on their annual holidays, nothing to do with Assad, who is doing a bit of renovation while they are away.

Doog, your suggestion that the US just wanted to be friends with Assad's Syria is perhaps a little at odds with the claim that they started the whole Middle east crisis by - for their own evil purposes - urging the Syrian people to rise up and overthrow Assad. B@stards !

But that's the value of having an Enemy like the US who is the Summation of All Evil - they can be accused of everything and it will probably be right. So you go ahead, accuse them of everything and - bingo ! A miracle occurs, and yes, they are guilty of everything.

But the problem with reality, in spite of the craziest suspicions, is that, sooner or later, we'll see. Won't we ?

Joe

Now we all have to hold hands children and be nice. Especially you Joe.

Uncle Vladimir is not going to ALL this trouble for his kindy's national interests alone.

Vladi is generously raising regional tensions to boost world oil prices for everyone.

Increased world oil prices brings together the interests of Russia's oil industry, Saudi Arabia's, other Gulf states', Iran's, Syria's and even the US's mutual benefit - in terms of West Texas crude.

Think of all that extra company tax.

As the pendulum of peace swings benignly into war cutbacks to US military Inc and US arms industries are further forgotten. Defence budgets blossom even in sun blessed Australia.

So lets hold hands bickering children and sing https://youtu.be/QKAolQ0yxIo .

Uncle Poida
xox

Just caught up with three days of posts and some threads appear, sometimes inadvertently in the comments.

Joe, what you say about the TOW missiles is also possibly true of ground to air missiles which the US is apparently going to supply to the "moderate" rebels (just like they did in Afghanistan in the 1980s). Professor du Pont? was advocating this on RN Breakfast this morning. This is so gobsmackingly stupid. Do these cretins have the least idea of the implications? I very much doubt it.

Also the comment on oil in the Golan Heights. Does anyone remember that this land is Syria's? It was seized by the Israelis in the 1967 War and they have hung onto it ever since, in defiance of UN resolutions, international law etc etc. The Golan Heights also serves the useful purpose, for the Israelis, as being where their military hospitals treat wounded IS fighters.

Peter, you were much more convincing when you stuck to serious comment. Even when I disagreed there was at least the possibility of a rational discussion.

Dear James O'Putin

Where you drool "Peter, you were much more convincing when you stuck to serious comment. Even when I disagreed there was at least the possibility of a rational discussion."

I think I can speak for all mankind on the the occasion of our profound gratitude for your scholarship and serious comments James.

Your total subservience to the Putin line is legendary.

Your insistence that you used to be a serious writer is proven by your refence to exact thread/links of articles you've written. Where are they?

Hi James,

Back in 1967, was Syria about to launch an attack on Israel from the Golan Heights and did it in fact launch an initial air attack on Israel ? Yes, as I recall it. Under international law, if that was so, Israel had the right to seize those Heights, in order to respond to an attack on its territory. Assad's father, also from faulty memory, was head of the Air Force at the time. So let's move on.

Putin has committed Russia to defend the Assad regime, and to defeat its enemies, including ISIS. Putin is not remotely interested in allowing anything like 'moderate' or 'democratic' forces to exist in Syria if they, in any say, threaten Russia's interests, and secondarily, Assad's. Yes, his air force will wipe out those forces soon enough, but sooner or later, the Russians will have to confront ISIS. maybe it could call on its allies in the CIS ? Remember the CIS ?

But Putin being a complete opportunist, as psychotics necessarily are, thinking only of his own interests, I suspect that he will do a deal with ISIS, and come to some sort of 'understanding' - at least, until he can be in the position to wipe them out as well. I wouldn't put it past him to use the Big One when that time comes.

Still, he's your boy, James. You're stuck with him.

Joe

It is pretty much a known fact Moshe Dayan, a known psychopath, clandestinely started the war of '67, therefore the Golan Heights should be returned to Syrian control, but we know that's not going to happen don't we!

No conspiracy here, just a fact, despite what the MSM and revisionist historians tell the steeple.

Peter & Joe. I am not beholden to Putin or anybody else. I happen to think that along with Xi they are the two smartest guys in the room. Don't confuse western media BS with what is really going on.

Secondly I was not referring to anything I had written, but the threads that emerged in the comments on the article. If you want to read what I have written, go to Counterpunch, Gumshoe News, New Eastern Outlook and New Matilda for some recent stuff.

Joe, what moderate rebels? Only in the land of Oz are there good witches and bad witches. Assad, who happens to head the only legitimate government Syria has, regardless of what you think of him, is under threat by a whole range of groups. He, quite rightly, is happy to kill them all. Lavrov has asked the americans to produce these so-called "moderates" and of course they can't. The americans train, finance, arm and send off people sure, but the first thing they do is hand their weapons over to IS. The americans admitted as recently as last week that their $500 million investment in the "moderates" had produced exactly 5 people.

As for international law, Article 51 of the UN Charter limits when you can attack another country: either when you are attacked, in self-defence; or when an attack is imminent. The response must be proportionate to the threat. You may NOT continue to occupy territory won in battle. The Israelis have no right whatsoever to occupy the Golan Heights.

The third reason you can bomb a country is when the lawful government asks you to, as Assad did with Russia. No such invitation went out to the US, Australia or any other member of the "coalition". Ergo, we are also in breach of international law. The self defence of another (in this case Iraq) that Bishop has feebly offered as her legal justification for bombing Syria also does not wash. The ICJ ruled in 1974 that that applies only to States, not non-state actors such as ISIS.

Hi Loudmouth.
You say, "Yes, possibly all those Syrians crossing the sea to Europe are just on their annual holidays, nothing to do with Assad, who is doing a bit of renovation while they are away."

Syrian people could have run away years ago, but instead they are doing it now.
Reason is more likely because they have heard air attacks are going to increase, including with Australia coming to bomb Syria.

I ask again, what has Assad actually done that is illegal?

Many Syrian people support Assad.

Hi James

You've again been evasive in saying "If you want to read what I have written, go to Counterpunch, Gumshoe News, New Eastern Outlook and New Matilda for some recent stuff."

Everyone provides comments.

Some links to some of your actual articles, please.

Pete