Warmair,

Right. There is no evidence that man can reverse of alter climate. End of story. Don't waste the money. Accept, adapt to climate change and spend the money on something useful.

In round terms if that $660m only created 10 Mt of new real emissions reductions instead of the claimed 47 Mt the abatement cost would be $66/t. Some of the actions the ERF paid for would have been done anyway perhaps required by law. For example state EPA rules require landfills to prevent methane release. There is no need for the Commonwealth to pay them anything, particularly from consolidated revenue. Other actions are difficult to verify such as the claim frequent burning of NT savanna reduces atmospheric CO2.

What is particularly galling is that Foreign Minister Bishop has been skiting about the ERF at international forums. That makes Australia look stupid then again most other countries will probably fudge their figures as well.

Quote
ttbn
"Right. There is no evidence that man can reverse of alter climate. End of story."

That is exactly the point once we have vandalized the atmosphere the climate will respond in ways that will most definitely be harmful to humans, numerous animals and plants. We have no practical method by which we can remove CO2 or other any other pollutants from the atmosphere once we have put it there. The simple solution is not to put there in the first place. The idea that green house gases do not affect climate is scientifically untenable.

So its going to cost money to stop vandalizing the atmosphere therefore we should not bother, makes me wonder about the sanity of humans.

Oh Dear; Still carrying on about the wrong argument !

doog, mentioned the 400 ppm of CO2 where around 130 ppm has been created through burning of fossil fuels since the Industrial Revolution. The origin of CO2 can be established through the isotopes displayed...applied science.

We know that carbon has been created and stored over millions of years; in geological terms we burn fossil fuels (carbon) in a few moments in geological terms.

The 11 year ARM study displayed the relationship between CO2 and infrared light...applied science in a real setting.

There have been 5 major extinction periods; 4 created through volcanic action creating much CO2, the other apparently a combination of volcanic action and being hit by an asteroid.
Volcanic action has virtually been flat lining over the last decades.

While those who were pushing the view that we were having a hiatus in relation to temperature increase; Oceans (Pacific, Atlantic and Indian) were secretly taking up heat. Check out "the blob" in the Pacific, notice how it is holding more warmth in the higher latitudes than during the 1997 el nino event.

Extra warmth in Oceans and atmosphere leads to a greater amount of evaporation. Over the last years there have been huge deluges; currently North and South Carolina and France have been hammered.
Earlier this year Estonia, Texas and Oklahoma were hit by severe flooding.

Just making blanket statements that man has no influence on climate does not stand, unless it can be proven that the 130+ ppm of man created CO2 since the Industrial Revolution has no influence on climate.

The irony is that scientists employed by ExxonMobil were telling management about how the burning of fossil fuel has an impact on climate back in the 1970s. Management sought to ignore their professional scientists and as a result Senator Whitehouse (US) is contemplating taking legal action currently.

http://insideclimatenews.org/news/15092015/Exxons-own-research-confirmed-fossil-fuels-role-in-global-warmin

Man has influence in how much CO2 is emitted into the atmosphere. To believe otherwise is like falling onto a busy train line and not hurriedly scrambling for safety.

Pompete Before we came down from the trees Volcanic action influenced the rise and fall of Co2 .

Nature controlled Co2 levels with climate change before humans came along. And there is nothing to suggest anything will be any different this time, unless something is done to counter the increasing Co2 in the atmosphere.

With the level now at 400 PPM nature has been compromised to the point of overbalance. And that has caused ocean temp to rise and ice melt is getting more and more each year.

People see more surface ice forming, but that is the result of the fresh water from the ice melt freezing at a lower temp; than brine water. So that disappears each spring, then more glacial melt starts each summer.

The worst thing is warmer water is undermining the glacial ice and it breaks of in lager chunks, adding to the increased glacial flows.

Ice land is not all ice, under the ice is a gigantic lake, kept liquid from warm earth from volcanic undertones. With some ice shelves up to 3 km’s thick, and being undercut by warmer water ice calving is increasing in mass . Of course when ice is in the water it is irretrievable. Ice that has been frozen for for thousands of years is now melting.

Ice melt has a helper at putting more Co2 into the atmosphere with ice melt comes bare ground which is frozen, “ perma frost “ as that thaws out more Co2 escapes, Plus Co2 overload stored in our warming oceans are causing Acidification, [or less alkaline water] which will dissolve the shell of shell fish.

Personally to get the ice melt to stop and oceans to cool we need to pull back co2 levels to 1960 levels. The quicker that happens the less sea level rise, as it is now sea level rise is inevitable to keep happening for the next 30 – 40 years.

The longer action is delayed that figure will blow out accordingly, and with ever increasing amount of years for a solution to take effect.