Yes I'm gettinig so disillusioned with Prime Militarist Tony.

I almost choked on my Weaties when I heard Abbott was sending Minister Dutton, OberFuhrer Border Force Blackshirts, to Europe concerning an Off Water Syrian refugee matter.

Wasn't bombs on Syria meant to be Australia's main contribution not aid?

But then, so far, Abbott has collected himself saying he expected no net increase in Syrian-Northern Iraq refugees (to Oz) already planned.

How will Dutton spin it?

Poida

thank God we do have the 'religous' Tony Abbott. The flood of illegals under Turnbull would still be flowing (with many more drownings). We would still have the idiotic carbon tax killing business. Ironically this tax largely came about from the irreligous religion. Tonies 'religion'whatever that might be (volunteering as life saver, helping Indigenous while on leave, being faithful to his wife) might stink to the regressives but is far more appealing to anyone with any decency.

Another ignorant one blabbing about the "hard right" and religion, even though non-conformist religionists are so far to the Left that the cannot stand up straight; and the Catholics are gradually listing to the left, too.

And, most citizen don't join parties because they don't want personal contact with grubby politicians. Most people only vote because the grubs enforce compulsory voting. It's a pity that citizens don't refuse to vote, and demand good candidates as opposed to the there-for-life rubbish we have now.

Pete,

Stop comparing Abbott and his methods with black shirts (Nazis). They cannot be both right wing conservatives and National Socialists. The first people to be cleared out - even before the Jews - from universities and positions of influence were CONSERVATIVES, your right wingers. People posting here and people in general likening conservatism and the right of politics to National SOCIALISM are clearly ignorant of the facts.

Syd,
a well reasoned argument, but would not your solution result in an oligarchy not democracy-- or is that what you think we have now anyway ?

My own observation of older conservative people I move amongst does not reflect the view that they are predominantly religious.
Old people are often well read enough to realise that Christianity was , for centuries, as blood thirsty as Islam.

The Counter Reformation war of 1618- 1648 cost 40-50% of the population of Middle Europe-and thousands were burnt to death for 250 years for witchcraft, probably predominantly women. With no welfare net, single woman resorted to playing on superstition ( love potions, curses, predictions, cures) to survive. Failures were common and a complaint to a priest led to a barbeque.
All that was kick- started by Pope Innocent VIII' s edict that Exodus 20:18 be enforced: "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live".

We wrinklies are against such trendy ideas as "same sex marriage" because we cannot see how we can validly ban polygamy if we stray from the traditional definition.

Polygamy is the abandonment of the basic building block of the Judeo Christian culture.

That culture, AND NO OTHER, has been rise to all the innovations from steam engine through to the internet which has increased mankind's productivity many hundred times over- without which 90 % of the world's population would not exists for lack of the ability to produce, transport and distribute the food and shelter to support them.
Institutionalised monogamy brings children up to the maximum potential which gives rise to invention and innovation.

Belief in monogamy is not belief in God.

Abandonment of monogamy is a reversion to the alpha male model of social structure seen in prides of lions and herds of deer, kangaroos, cattle etc. -Monogamy= civilisation, alpha male structure=savagery.

We wrinklies have logical, not religious reasons to be conservative.

ttbn

Stop your blather man.

Democracy is protected by criticising such Angels and Demons as the Jesuit Abbott.

That Abbott has created a private army of Border Force Black Shirts goes back to Abbott sitting on the knee of the late Bob Santamaria who had some good things to say about Mussolini https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B._A._Santamaria#Early_and_family_life .

What would be the practical difference between one party dominated by a rich, greedy, self-interested minority and another party dominated by a rich, greedy, self-interested minority?

Would not the problems evident in Labor's relationship with unions be mirrored in any party consisting of "elected members... plus financial backers"?

They are both bound to be antidemocratic, secretive, disloyal to their membership and elitist. And biased, if not downright fraudulent.

And the next model is... ancient Greek style rotating random citizens? If so, then sorry, the slaves and women miss out. Perhaps the Swiss village-green communal mass vote style of democracy, where populism is everything and argument is waste of breath.

The first Australian political party that successfully enables its members to meet democratically, as equals, not bound by back room promises or caucuses, one where members are truly valued and respected instead of being made to blindly follow a so-called leader, who is probably the son of a previous inglorious leader will grow like a wildfire in both membership and votes.

Unfortunately, Canberra being what it is, within a couple of months of arrival even the cleanest and most upright seem to turn into pigs at the trough, isolated from the public and uttering inanities from the day's list of talking points.

What is the next model?

Cast your memories back to the media's constant reminder updates during federal Labor Parties last term in office, of the Carbon Tax and the Mining Tax. The Carbon Tax raised electricity charges while the mining tax had little effect on the general population.

I would suggest both taxes never actually existed. The media's constant bringing up of the two taxes while the Labor government was in power, gave the Liberal party a policy platform to campaign with, before the last federal election. My, I can't prove assumption is that the taxes were said to be there, in order the show separation between the two main political parties as a democracy. My only anecdotal evidence is the overly amount of media “talk show” discussions, you the reader may remember, I assume drove many listeners crazy with “why this again” pointless judgements.

Now as the Liberal party is in government, the only achievements Tony Abbott government have carried out are the removal of the two taxes and stopping the boats. Present Tony Abbott future achievements in progress are the decades aged old behind closed doors trade tariffs, giving Labor party scare headlines of workers losing jobs.

Can I not make comparisons between religious priests and ministers putting on ceremonial praying performances, allowing witnessing congregations a belief that an actual magical god is taking notice.
The idea is, the more politicians performances are witnessed the more performances are judged real, reinforcing democracy in process beliefs.

Pete,

Sorry. I didn't know that you had the monopoly on 'blather'. You criticise any one or anything as much as you wish, and with my support. I criticise Abbott constantly, just for different things. But, for heaven's sake, don't call, him something he is clearly not. Get your facts right. Don't describe him as the type of person who has never existed in Australia. Going over the top, as you have on this occasion, only makes you look silly, and invalidates your argument: particularly over something that 99.9% of people now know was caused by some stupid, barely literate clerk.

ttbn (just giving your first name would be human...)

If you accept the "barely literate clerk" theory you know little about para-military politics in Canberra.

For a start this newly black clad force displaying full parade dress medals (not at a parade) is considered (by real servicemen) as strange behavior https://twitter.com/ausborderforce/status/616133663781076992

Border Force seems an odd creature that does not have the legitimacy or legal backing of the Police or Armed Forces.

However Abbott's need to be surround himself with uniforms and military hardware (whenever possible) is just one of his character defects.

Look at this wouldbe military vanity - no pilots - just the MAN and HIS Machine http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/jump-jets-on-navys-agenda-as-tony-abbott-orders-air-strike-rethink-20140603-39gl0.html

Pete,

OK. So now I'm not human because I don't "give my first name". I don't know if Pete is your first name: it's just quicker than plantagenet (lovely mob they were). In this day and age, I think it's unwise to reveal anything personal about yourself.

So, if you think me and my views are inhuman, we don't have anything to say to each other.

Cheers.

Syd Hickman, so conservative = insane?
Typical arrogance from the Left.

Old Man, you are right to point out the hypocrisy of marriage reformists evading the polygamy issue.

Incestous marriage will also still remain outlawed (even people *adopted* into a family!).
Yet these "loves" are still denied their "dignity" by the reformists.
Either reform/repeal the whole shebang or STFU hypocrites!

I'm not so sure about your assertions of monogamy's contribution to civilisation though.
Many "savage" human cultures have embraced it.

JohnBennetts "The first Australian political party that successfully enables its members to meet democratically, as equals..."

Weren't they the Democrats?
Where are they now?
They represented the author's supposedly "sane" moderate leftist position on everything, yet had little success with the voters.

The author laments our disinterest/disillusionment with parties.
This is a bad thing?

This could be the birth of *true* democracy.
Direct democracy.
No need for "representatives" at all.
Today's technology easily enables it.

But I think the Loony Left secretly fear it won't produce the support for their utopian agenda they hope for (despite the opinion polls), so will fight against its implementation tooth and nail.

Too many "crazy" conservatives might upset their applecart.

I presume most of the people posting here read the article. If so I am amazed.

I didn't get past "The Liberal Party is engaged in a civil war between the dominant religious hard right conservative faction of Tony Abbott and the more rational, truly liberal faction of Malcolm Turnbull."

Once I read that little lot, applying the word rational to Turnbull, I knew there would be nothing worth reading in the thing.

I was surprised to see so many posts, but judging from the discussion I was right not to bother. Obviously any one who could praise Turnbull is either a fool, or up to no good, & should be avoided.

On concern about Black Shirts threatening democracy checkout todays' http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-09-08/6760028

"Border Force: David Leyonhjelm recites parody poem criticising failed Operation Fortitude

[Senator Leyonhjelm] "turned bush bard in the Senate today, criticising the bungled Victorian Police's Operation Fortitude and the Australian Border Force's planned participation in rhyme.

...Channelling the iconic Australian poet Banjo Patterson, Senator Leyonhjelm characterised the failed operation as a farce.

There was movement at the station, for the word had passed around
That the cops from Border Force were on their way.
And had joined the tram conductors — 'tickets please' would be the sound.
And 'your papers please' — 'you may have over-stayed'.

All the armed and muscled black shirts, led by their new tsar,
Were primed and ready for a fight.
For the black shirts love to hunt where the brown and black boys are.
And the Commish sniffs the limelight with delight.

Senator Leyonhjelm's poetic licence also stretched to Prime Minister Tony Abbott, and senior ministers Scott Morrison and Peter Dutton.

And Tony, Scott and Peter were keen to lend a hand
Giving power to the black shirts warmed their souls
With weekly tales of freedoms to be banned
It's the best way to pick up in the polls.

There you have it gents.

Hi all,

I think the reality is your average person is dissilisioned by politicians and due to politicians poor public images do not want to be involved or associated with politics.

It is also the case that those with the views to make a difference to today's society and often labelled unfairly when they associate to any one political party. For example a citizen who wants to make a difference but does not want to run as a conservative or labour candidate may choose to represent the british national party. This is a party now with a large following and strong political message. However once associated many candidates are ridiculed as racist or anti immigration without fully listing to the candidates views on the issue. A sad state of affairs but the reality I am afraid.

FYI,

The Nazis were the brown shirts, which would classify most hipsters as Nazis. The worst black shirts are the CFMEU union thugs that go to construction sites and extort money by threats.

Anyway the National socialists fascists and communists are all extreme socialists favouring government control of productions and far closer to Labor and the greens than to the liberals.

The new border force is the departments of customs and immigration rebadged, and clearly never intended to stop people and ask for identification. The later was brain fart of the left who are desperately trying to sell it as fact.

The reality is that under labor between 1000 and 2000 died in boats compared to none under the coalition.

Similarly, in the first few years of the Syrian crisis Labor granted refuge to 98 Syrians, yet are now calling for Abbott to give 10 000 places above the 4000+ p.a. he has already allocated.

There is no link between politicians and citizens.
Its "Us" and "Them".

Global issues seem to take precedent over National issues and with it comes a complete disconnect between citizens and their leaders.

//The Nazis were the brown shirts, which would classify most hipsters as Nazis. The worst black shirts are the CFMEU union thugs that go to construction sites and extort money by threats.//

On a construction site? You won't find any blackshirts there, just hi-vis shirts. Even if they do wear black shirts, I find it really hard to believe that they are worse than Mosley's or Mussolini's blackshirts - two mobs of fascists who did wear black shirts and who make the CFMEU look like the Girl Guides when it comes to ethically dubious behaviour.

//Anyway the National socialists fascists and communists are all extreme socialists//

I wouldn't be so sure about lumping the Fascists in with the National Socialists. Mussolini had this to say about socialism:

"We declare war against socialism, not because it is socialism, but because it has opposed nationalism. Although we can discuss the question of what socialism is, what is its program, and what are its tactics, one thing is obvious: the official Italian Socialist Party has been reactionary and absolutely conservative. If its views had prevailed, our survival in the world of today would be impossible."

The opening phrase, 'we declare war against socialism', suggests to me an extreme anti-socialist rather than an extreme socialist. Their economic policies definitely tended more towards capitalism than socialism. Is the only basis for your claim that the Fascists were socialists 'Fascists were twats, socialists are twats, therefore fascists are socialists'? Because that isn't a valid argument: Labradors are dogs and and greyhounds are dogs but labradors are not greyhounds.

Online Opinion Forum's FASCIST FASHION SHOW

Some will find this strangely erotic.

1. In the beginning, ladies, was Mussolini's Black Shirts - their appearance and ethos - https://youtu.be/97nSCWU_hXQ

2. The Italian Black Shirts so appealed to failed artist and impotent Adolf that he created his own line:

Down the catwalk are the spunky SS troopies https://youtu.be/uK3wbUK-OeM

3. Unfortunately oneball Hitler has given the thumbs down to Border Force telegraphing its Blitzkriegs beforehand - but bombing Syria shows promise https://youtu.be/cUlLLccEz3o

You are advocating parties without members. Would members (of parliament) without parties not be a better bet. The clear corruption of both major parties is one of the major reasons for the strife we are all in today.

Why do voters ignore independent candidates so much ?

RichardP, that was the original intention at Federation.
There is no mention of parties in the constitution.

In the beginning:

- Bomber Abbott and

- Pacific Island Life Saver Dutton (OberFuhrer Border Force Black Shirts)

produced a whole new paramilitary force.

Here is an excellent cartoon on what Force Dutton almost inflicted on Melbourne: http://www.kudelka.com.au/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/me150829.jpg

Hopefully uniform designers for the Border Force Black Shirts are designing a uniform colour more in keeping with Australia's democratic traditions and public expectations.

The public vote Tony...

Tony Abbott leaves Canberra after taking selfies with diners at Ottoman Cuisine in CanberraAFTER losing the prime ministership, Tony Abbott has left Canberra after he was asked to pose for selfies with diners including a former Big Brother star.

The former prime minister left this afternoon on an RAAF plane, and
Mr Abbott was seen dining at Ottoman Cuisine, a Turkish restaurant in Canberra’s suburb of Barton with his daughter Louise and her boyfriend.
But their meal was intermittently interrupted by diners who asked Mr Abbott for a selfie — one of them being former Big Brother contestant Jason Roses.

Mr Roses, 27, who works as a real estate agent in Canberra, told News Corp Australia that he went up to Mr Abbott and asked him “Do you mind if I take a photo with you?”

hat Mr Abbott looked “very tired” but was “very polite” to diners who came up throughout the evening to ask for a photograph with him.

“About 10 people went up throughout the night and asked him for a selfie, he was very obliging,” Mr Roses said.

Mr Roses was in the restaurant before Mr Abbott arrived, where he was celebrating a friend’s birthday.

He said they observed Mr Abbott, his daughter and her boyfriend share their Turkish meal over some glasses of red wine.

Mr Roses was one of the last housemates to be evicted from the Big Brother house on last year’s season of the show.

Mr Abbott’s wife Margie has also recently been spotted taking suitcases and packed-up boxes from Kirribilli House to their home in Sydney’s northern suburb of Forestville.