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The Forum > Article Comments > Israeli-Hamas truce: an opportunity in disguise > Comments

Israeli-Hamas truce: an opportunity in disguise : Comments

By Alon Ben-Meir, published 24/8/2015

Although Israeli officials claim it is merely a rumor and that there are no direct or indirect negotiations with Hamas, many signs suggest that a deal is imminent.

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Would that there were a speck of a grain of a skerrick of truth in these rumours; or that a serially duplicitous Israel had any intention of reaching any actual agreement?

Or actually honoring one; given such an agreement would end her current ability to purloin arab land, with impunity, for the sole purpose of making sure that Israeli Arabs never gain numerical superiority at the ballot box.

Meaning, rather than disappearing into the sea, Israel would simply disappear into the pages of history!?

Rumors of speculation are just that, which in no way can ever be allowed to stop the one thing forcing a peace plan everyone can agree to, on Israel?

Namely the commercial boycotts!

Only to be repealed when the deal is not only done but seen to be done!

When there is a bona fide agreement on the table, maybe there will be an actual opportunity to grasp?
Rhrosty.
Posted by Rhrosty, Monday, 24 August 2015 10:29:07 AM
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Amen, Alon.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Monday, 24 August 2015 2:42:51 PM
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Hmmm .. sounds like sugar and spice and all things nice but I remain unconvinced and opposed to a 2 State solution. And I say that even though I have a degree of sympathy for Hamas and do not like to see them under the boot of the Israelis.

However, I certainly wouldn't put up with their ongoing antics.

Furthermore, despite all the superficial pleasantries, my opinion is that the Israelis will never give the Palestinians the opportunity to do them more serious harm, which of course they could if a 2 State solution came to be, and given the history I find that to be understandable.

So, whilst I remain ever open to better solutions, I currently remain of the view that Israel should inflict a forced exodus on Hamas, and push them into the desert and the loving arms of the N.G.O.'s

Of course, I am told that doing something like that could well lead to a serious widening and escalation of tensions between Israel and its supporters and the wider Arab world.

Even so, I am left wondering if the reason the Israeli's haven't as yet come down harder on Hamas is because they are not confident of their international support being in place well before any escalation took place.

And when n.america seems split over the 2 State solution issue then perhaps this should come as no surprise?

..

The hatred in some corners on both sides of the conflict remains too deep and these two warring factions need to be forcibly separated i.m.o.
Posted by DreamOn, Friday, 28 August 2015 11:56:05 AM
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Dear DreamOn,

Israel should not go for a two-state solution because it likes the Palestinians' shiny beautiful faces: it should do so to save itself from its forces of darkness within.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Friday, 28 August 2015 12:18:31 PM
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*Yuyutsu*

I can accept that the treatment of the Palestinians is quite awful and that this in turn continues to fuel the hatred.

However, there is an active minority within the Palestinian population that by their own admission won't be satisfied until Israel is wiped off the map and they are once again in control of JeruSalem, and unfortunately it is they who are dictating policy.

So, if you want both sides to have peaceful and more prosperous lives, surely it is best to separate them?

I also accept that certainly some Jews do not want to do anything remotely similar to the kinds of things that they suffered at the hands of the Nazis, but even so .. when some Palestinians and some Israelis would sooner stick a knife in each other as opposed to say "Good Morning" then ..

It's all very well for do-gooders to say turn the other cheek but that is not a view that I can give any serious consideration to.

No, I would not ask that the Israelis should have to live side by side Palestinains anymore than Palestinians should have to live side by side Israelis. The situation as is quite intolerable.

Perhaps if they are seperated and let go of their hatred then in time, a "New Peace" can come to be, but as things are, that is but a noble aspiration for the future.
Posted by DreamOn, Friday, 28 August 2015 12:54:29 PM
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Dear DreamOn,

There is a considerable number of both Jews and Muslims who respectively would never accept the prospect of the Land permanently not belonging to them. They could however accept a temporary truce based on their weakness.

The question of Israelis and Palestinians living side-by-side is too simplistic because neither the Israelis nor Palestinians can live peacefully side-by-side even among themselves. However, those Israelis and those Palestinians who do not subscribe to the "religious" notion of having to own the whole land, have no problem living together, while amazingly, those Israelis and Palestinians who do subscribe to that notion, also live together relatively well and cooperate economically in the West Bank.

My concern is different altogether, it's an internal Israeli matter which has practically nothing to do with Palestinians: Israeli society was shattered and corrupted by the "victory" in the 1967 war and Israel will never be able to recover without getting rid of those territories and most importantly, of Eastern Jerusalem and that wall which has become its national-militaristic fetish. It was initially claimed by the Israeli government, straight after the 1967 war, that the territories are held for security purposes and will be eventually returned in a peace deal, but meanwhile the damage continues and Israel bleeds from within. Israel is well and beyond strong enough militarily to defend itself from its Arab/Palestinian neighbours even without those cursed territories, so it's not about turning the other cheek - it's about Israel doing what is in it's own true best interest.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Friday, 28 August 2015 2:02:34 PM
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*Yuyutsu*

" ... Israeli society was shattered and corrupted by the "victory" in the 1967 war and Israel will never be able to recover without getting rid of those territories ... "

I am not certain what you you are referring to but I am trying to understand the point that you seek to make. Can you elaborate a bit more?

I am familiar with the fact that Israel did its fair share of ethnic cleansing at this time when images of dead Palestinian body pits came through on Al-Jazeera and from anecdotal sources but is there more to which you refer?
Posted by DreamOn, Friday, 28 August 2015 10:51:34 PM
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Dear DreamOn,

I am referring to a time way before Al-Jazeera existed, way before Palestinians called themselves "Palestinians", way before the PLO or Hamas were conceived, way before the Jewish settlement movement started.

The now-Palestinians were not yet uprising, but humbly accepted their fate and tried to please and befriend their Israeli conquerors, despite even http://shma.com/2013/10/in-a-few-hours-losing-everything

The impact of the 1967 "victory", amazing as it were from a military point of view, overturned the Israeli psyche and from a humble nice people and holocaust refugees, induced them to boast their might, identify as that which they earlier most hated - conquerors, worship the military and believe themselves to be above morality. This violent attitude still spills into every avenue of Israeli life, including domestic violence, driver's rage on the roads and more. It undermines the rationale for Israel's existence as a place of refuge for persecuted Jewish people and as an exemplary light-unto-the-nations.

Above all, stands the symbolic "Western wall", presumably a remnant of the Jewish temple (in fact an Herodian structure, yes, built by that megalomaniac sadistic idiot), but in practice a militant monument to victory, which is often used for military parades and ceremonies.

So I am not attempting to solve the Palestinian problem or the "conflict" (a media-palatable jargon for a much more complex situation), but rather to save the Israelis from themselves: Israeli society cannot be healed so long as the 1967 territories and especially that cursed wall, cease to be occupied by Israel.

Much is said to justify Israel's brilliant 1967 counter-attack and victory and it's true that Israel had no choice but to win that war. However, the long-term occupation was not necessary, and behind all the victim-rhetoric, its true motive was Moshe Dayan's greed to enhance his private archaeological collection, having more archaeological sites to rob - http://www.jhsonline.org/Articles/article_27.htm
Posted by Yuyutsu, Saturday, 29 August 2015 9:11:33 PM
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Posted by Yuyutsu, Saturday, 29 August 2015 9:11:33 PM

" ... The now-Palestinians were not yet uprising, but humbly accepted their fate and tried to please and befriend their Israeli conquerors, despite even http://shma.com/2013/10/in-a-few-hours-losing-everything ... "

I have only ever seen one documentary which shone any light onto exactly what transpired at that time. It suggested that:

1. The Jews provided the poms with advanced chemistry for bomb making (and remember that the Jews were bombing the poms prior to that much as the Muslims are bombing others today) in exchange for Palestine.

2. The Palestinian people resisted violently (as most people would)

Bare in mind *Yuyutsu* that it was some time ago, my recollections are but fragments, and I have no real knowledge of the "true" history of that period. Even so, it stands in contrast to what you have said.

But even if the Jews were 100% at fault, given the hellishness of what the European Jews in particular has just been through, it is understandable that they reacted in the way in which they did.

As I recall, they even napalm bombed a n.american warship soon after this time and yet they have obviously largely resolved these problems with the n.americans now being strong supporters of Israel.
Posted by DreamOn, Tuesday, 1 September 2015 6:39:02 PM
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