Dear Bugsy,

You were perfectly correct in pulling up Curmudgeon for trying to say CO2 level increases were not accelerating when they plainly are

It was the first thing I picked up of when he began his pontifications on this thread.

Most of us do not have the time to dissect every bit of disinformation from the flat-earthers so what we tend to do is examine their prima facie case and if it contains obvious and glaring errors we are usually quite disinclined to proceed any further.

The fact that Curmudgeon could not bring himself to directly acknowledge that 'CO2 levels are indeed accelerating' casts him in an unseemly light and clouds the rest of what he has said with a cloak of questionable veracity.

Mark, your predictable conclusion is "it is difficult to see how, from a purely price-benefit point of view, any carbon saving initiative would be worth the cost.'

Have you researched the cost of just one current climate disaster caused be man made global warming - the 4 year California drought?

I was in the US last year and witnessed Lake Mead (Hoover Dam) half empty. What will happen if the 40 huge trains a day on the Santa Fe railway carrying vegetables and fruit for the eastern states no longer carry that food?

These disasters will become commonplace once the warming really gets going. The scientists predicted it and it is happening.

I say discounts rates mean little - set them at near zero because as the Indian chief said you can't eat money. We certainly won't be able to when there are ongoing massive crop failures in future due to >3 deg.rise in average global temperatures that we are headed for. Do you think money will buy rain in droughts or stop flooding deluges?

The other side of climate change / changed high and low pressure systems in the US last year was the big freeze in NY where I stayed over winter. The ground did not thaw out for over 3 months; due to a 'polar vortex' caused by global warming. A similar event the previous year cost the US a few percent of its GDP because things closed down for over a week in half the country.

PS The SW of WA had the warmest June since records began about 1910 - THREE DEGREES warmer than previous record in mid 1980's. Strange coincidences aren't they, if global warming isn't happening?

To Doog, Tombee, Ormondotvos, Taswegian, Bugsy, and Roses1.

I gather that you have not been keeping up with the events around so called "'man made global warming" fiasco. The whole thing is coming apart at the seams, because more and more scientists are ignoring the threat of lawsuits from the global warming industry, to speak about how science has been successfully perverted. It was perverted by a handful of academic Marxists, supported by a UN bureaucracy who want to destroy western civilisation while lining their own pockets, championed by self seeking politicians like Al Gore and Barrack Obama, and aided by a media only interested in presenting sensational news about impending doom to sell their products.

It really is an interesting story. In ten years time, writers are going to get Pulitzers recounting the whole sorry tale, and showing how each of the villains backed each other up over "man made global warming" in order keep the hysteria going for their own self aggrandisement. I hate to tell you, but you are on the wrong side of history here.

If you wish to display your credentials as a true world saver, who is oh, so much more intelligent than the hoi polloi, then you picked the wrong cause. You got suckered by people who found it child's play to take people like yourself with your high ideals and make them into their pawns. Perhaps you should watch the old movie "Elmer Gantry" and you might get the idea about how you were conned.

Anyhoo, if you really want to display to the world how intelligent you are, then the time is ripe for you to join the other rats and jump off the climate change ship before it sinks out of sight. The sooner you jump, the better for you. You can hope that nobody remembers that you once supported scientific fraud of unimaginable scale, which cost your people trillions, and you can then denounce the people you once wholeheartedly supported, and pretend to the world that you are still one of the Chosen Ones who know everything.

LEGO, I think the hard core climate alarmists are in a quandary. They probably realise the jig is up but if they hold out long enough, the climate might turn 'for the better' and they will all jump on the band wagon to take the credit.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

Alaska is in the grip of unprecedented bush fires. Pacific ocean temps point toward drought for AU and continuation of US drought.
Pacific ocean temps are showing a 1*C rise in temp since the last all-time high which will disrupt fish life and possibly give rise to destructive weather events.
No need for climate models, models are a static display, and do not suite a forever changing climate. Seasonal change is the only real predictor.
400 ppm Co2 is more than the atmosphere can handle, + the softening of perma frost releasing even more Co2 into the atmosphere it is hard to see a way out of this one.
With arctic in decline 6 months of the year and the Antarctic in decline the other 6 months of the year. It is a 24/7 365 day / yr disaster of mega proportions.
Persons who believe it will take centuries for ice melt to complete, are grossly mistaken, each year ice melt is accelerating from both under and over glacial ice. Ocean rise is more prevalent in the northern hemisphere for some reason. The US east coast has rising sea levels blamed on the Greenland ice melt.
What took 100 years of glacial movement, now takes 10 and quickening.

Hey Doogood. ever heard of "natural climate variability"?

WIKIPEDIA.

The Roman Warm Period has been proposed as a period of unusually warm weather in Europe and the North Atlantic that ran from approximately 250 BC to 400 AD. Cooling at the end of this period in south west Florida may have been due to a reduction in solar radiation reaching the Earth, which may have triggered a change in atmospheric circulation patterns.

Theophrastus (371–287 BC) wrote that date trees could grow in Greece if planted, but could not set fruit there. This is the same situation as today, and suggests that southern Aegean mean summer temperatures in the fourth and fifth centuries BC were within a degree of modern temperatures. This and other literary fragments from the time confirm that the Greek climate during that period was basically the same as it was around 2000 AD. Dendrochronological evidence from wood found at the Parthenon shows variability of climate in the fifth century BC resembling the modern pattern of variation.

The Medieval Warm Period (MWP), Medieval Climate Optimum, or Medieval Climatic Anomaly was a time of warm climate in the North Atlantic region that may also have been related to other climate events around the world during that time, including China and other areas, lasting from about AD 950 to 1250. It was followed by a cooler period in the North Atlantic termed the Little Ice Age. Some refer to the event as the Medieval Climatic Anomaly as this term emphasizes that effects other than temperature were important.

So Doogood, the Earth warmed from 250 BC to 400AD, cooled until 950 AD, warmed again until 1250, then froze from 1500 AD to 1800 AD. Now we are once again living in a warm period. That is called, "natural climatic variation."

You got conned, because the Marxists who dreamed up HICW were world savers like you, and their lies and scientific falsifications which demanded an end to the consumer society (which they choose to live in), in order to Save The World, conformed to your own beliefs about saving the environment.