I don't understand the Kleins. They seem unhappy that by their own standards they win.

""If we were to lose everything it would be totally worth it for our Lord who gave his one and only son, Jesus, for us! God will win this fight!""

Or do they think it insufficient justice and punishment they will be in heaven experiencing paradisiacal bliss for ever after whilst the Bowman-Cryer's are tormented in hell for eternity?

Maybe they are not True Christians™?

"We were just running our business the best we could -- following the Lord's example," Melissa told Todd [Starnes].

Instead of examples they could have chosen to follow a direct instruction from their Lord:

“Judge not, and ye shall not be judged. Condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned. Forgive, and ye shall be forgiven." [Luke 6:37]

Which would have seen both their religious belief and Oregon's public accommodations laws not violated.

Babette
The problem lies not with gay marriage but with the Oregon Equality Act of 2007. The bakery’s decision was petty, bigoted, immoral and stupid, and it deserves condemnation. But it should not have been illegal.

Gay people should have the right to get married. And bigots should have the right to refuse to bake them cakes.

shows clearly that most of the homosexual lobby has little interest in 'marriage equality'. They just don't want anyone disagreeing with what is obviously perversion. Unfortunately most people don't think enough to see that this advocates won't rest until your 5 year old kids are taught that sodomy is normal. Disgusting!

Dear Runner,

There is no such "homosexual lobby".

There are people out there, about whom this article is really about, who are not even homosexual and who in their personal life are probably as disgusted as yourself by sodomy, but what they do is to use the convenient tactical theme of homosexuality to trap the religious and forward their anti-religious agenda. It's not sodomy they are after - it's the souls of your children.

You need to realise that until and unless sinners are also legally allowed to pursue their sinful lifestyle, including even killing their babies, none of us will be permitted by the state to worship and follow God. That's the deal we are facing and you seem to refuse to look it in the face.

Thanks be to God that the shameful days of Church/State alliance are over - it was a disgrace to His holy name!

"Gay people should have the right to get married. And bigots should have the right to refuse to bake them cakes." - agreed.

It appears to me from what I've read on this case that the refusal was made prior to any order being accepted, that the owner was polite about the refusal and it was given as soon as the nature of the wedding was known. I've not seen any indication that the cake business received any kind of monopoly protection, government subsidies etc.

I do get the impression that the owners made some unwise choices later in the process in regard to what they put on line as many might do.

I strongly disagree with their choice but have no reason to believe that any government should be able to require them to provide service to something they oppose (nor should I be required to pay extra taxes and rates to subsidise the break given to churches).

R0bert

Cobber the hound "how you exercise them in the public forum"

Just because anyone can walk in the door does not make it "public".
It is private enterprise on private property.

The lawyers, lesbians and government did not sign the lease or pay the bills.
It's the Kleins' business.

"It is a difficult balancing act between personal freedom and oppression."

Apparently not.
If you're a cause favoured by leftists you have freedom.
If not, you deserve oppression.

The New Fascism hasn't eliminated oppression, just reversed it.
Now it's okay to oppress men, Christians, heterosexuals, Whites.

Yuyutsu "the price for our own freedom must be that sinners have their freedom too."

They do.
They're free to walk out the door.

Carz "How is their religious freedom at risk?"

How is the lesbians' identity/relationship "at risk" if this particular store doesn't bake a cake?

Rhrosty "is no different than saying we don't make cakes for folks from different ethnic backgrounds!"

Or dwarves. Or left-handers. Or people who pick their nose.
And why shouldn't they be able to say this?

If store X won't bake your cake, store Y will.
If *no* store will, you can get off your lazy butt and bake your own damn cake.

No real harm is done by someone not baking you a cake.
Cake is not a life necessity.

"rather than trying to police/judge those of others often on the back of patently misguided belief systems/value judgements."

Who is being "judged/policed" here?
The lesbians aren't being ordered to pay damages for negating religious freedom.

Defining yourself as a "lesbian" who wants to be "married" are beliefs/values just as much as the Kleins' Christian faith.

They should be free to choose those beliefs/values.
But others should also be free to not support their decisions.

Nobody can objectively/absolutely determine what beliefs/values are "misguided" (i.e. false/bad).
People of apparently greater intelligence than present generations understood this.
That is why "liberalism" was first invented.

Liberalism has now been distorted to mean illiberalism: an obligatory compliance to a particular values/beliefs orthodoxy.

17 generations of free thinkers are rolling in their graves.