Suseonline,

The source of the information was as reported, Richard Marles, the current Shadow Minister for Immigration and Border Protection.

Medical staff are as prone as any other to misunderstanding and human error, especially where there are those with a vested interest in muddying the waters and giving out wrong information.

Greens Q&A member, Larissa Waters got it wrong on the unanimous report that was, contrary to what Larissa would have had the public believe, signed by Sarah Hanson Young.

Then again there may be people who refuse to accept the factual record because it doesn't suit their prejudice against the government.

Rhian

"If you were consistent, you would surely direct as much ire at the people who want to spend your taxes on offshore detention as at those who want to spend your taxes on community settlement."

I am consistent, and I do direct as much ire at all branches of Convention refugee policy. Those who advocate the Manus/Nauru policy do so in order to preserve compliance with the Convention, at an obscene cost. So they are every bit as fake, statist, and deplorable in their phony humanitarianism as Justine whose only interest is showing off at street corners about how morally superior she is.

"Indeed, in an earlier post I asked if you would support allowing asylum seekers entry if they had no access to housing or unemployment benefits. You did not reply."

It all depends what assumptions one makes.

But however much of the current system one assumes as continuing, the problem will always remain the extent to which
a) people who don't want them here are forced to pay for them, and
b) people who do want them here are prevented from providing for them, and
c) the 'noise in the system' - the fake humanitarians of the Manus/Nauru school, and the fake humanitarians of Justine/Burnside's ilk - whose posing is only enabled by the socialisation of the means.

For example I could easily accommodate, feed and provide work for at least two refugees. But if I am to do it under the thicket and thornbush of government regulations on absolutely everything, and administer them all at my own cost and risk, forget it! So both the refugees and I are worse off - and the pretend-humanitarians of the State are better off by parasitising me and the refugees. But this is never the subject of policy discussion, which only ever asks why doesn’t the State get bigger and spend more.

It’s not a problem of refugee status per se, it's a problem of socialism spreading chaos throughout the whole discourse, for example susieonline baying off after the red herring whether refugee status is determined by seaworthiness.

(cont.)

Public discussion if full of this kind of irrelevant diversion, all giving the State a get-out-of-jail free card for the chaos, waste and abuse that it's the cause of, all assuming the solution is ever-more State action.

That's why I support a voluntary solution because it separates the noise from the signal. It tells us straight away who is fair dinkum, and who is a bullsh!t-artist.

If as many people as protest concern, would actually take responsibility for their protested values, it would enable a revolutionary policy shift that is would be better for all concerned.

Even only the thought-experiment of a voluntary dispensation, shows clearly what the only restrainer is. The vast majority of those protesting concern are actually only pretending. They are poser and w@nkers, that is all. They flatly refuse to practise what they preach.

When called on it, as here, they either go quiet and slink off, only to pop up somewhere else on the same site re-running the same fatuous nonsense. Or they puff themselves up with windy indignation like Foxy, as if her own opinion of herself was the topic all along.

That's it. That's all they've got, and all they're made of. It's pathetic. It's nauseating because they don't even mind killing refugees and refugee children by the hundreds so long as they can have their precious little ego trip about how wonderful they are. It's disgusting and they should be ashamed of themselves, and either put up, or shut up.

Hear that Justine? You need to either put up or shut up.

Hurry up and post the signed original Deed and Declaration or come out and admit you're a fake and poser and stop skulking.

"The truth will set you free." John 8:32

Dear Jardine,

I have been giving you a wide-berth, but this time
I feel obliged to respond as you keep referring to me
for some unknown reason. You've crossed the line.
By continuing to slur a person you don't know.
To me - you appear to be arguing on an emotional level -
not a mature, intelligent one. This limits your chances of
winning you points as no-one likes or supports an
abusive, illogical, or weak debater.

The art of reasoned, intelligent argument is a skill not
easily acquired. You need to argue in a logical manner.
Sound reasoning will conquer unreasonable generalisations every
time.

For your information - I have worked with refugees for a
large part of my professional life and I am still involved
with several organisations to whom I give my time.

You should not make assumptions about people you don't
know - even though they may not want to discuss things
with you. That's being immature.

Anyway, I read a review of the latest book by Klaus Neumann,
"Across the Seas: Australia's Response to Refugees -
A History," by Richard Ferguson in Saturday's Age,
July 11th 2015.

Klaus Newmann's attempt to untangle the
refugee question is - according to Ferguson - brilliant and
well-informed, and well worth a read. As the reviewer tells
us - "Australia's torrid relationship with refugees is
something everyone has an opinion on and is a continuing headache
for Canberra."

The book sounds like interesting reading and putting things into
their historical perspective may help people understand things
that are currently happening today regarding asylum seekers.

Enjoy your time on the forum. But kindly put it to
better use than slurring people you don't know.

Foxy

I'm not slurring you. I'm just pointing out the fact that your claimed concern for refugees is fake. It concerns me that people make a big public show of their pretended humanitarianism, when really they refuse to accept responsibility for the costs they are trying to force onto others, knowing those others disagree with them. Only if you admit that's bad does it become a slur. For all I know you think you're being clever.

Why haven't you signed and posted the above Deed and Declaration yet? Why are you trying to divert the discussion into irrelevance?

Dear Jardine,

You seem to be somewhat obsessed with your petition
and getting people to sign it. And then you call
them fakes if they don't.

There are quite a few legitimate petitions from
reputable organisations on the web that people can
sign on behalf of refugees and asylum seekers.
I have signed several of them.
One especially comes to mind - "ChilOut," which
has joined with GetUp, Amnesty International.
Australian Asylum Seeker Resource Centre, Save the
Children, Children's Rights International, the
Human Rights Law Centre and Welcome to Australia.
Signing that petition and speaking up for kids in
detention will achieve much more than playing games
with you on this forum.

How about you putting your money where your mouth is
and you sign the petition on behalf of kids in detention.
Instead of wasting everyone's time by carrying on about
your own petition.

http://www.chilout.org/kids_out

I shan't be responding to you any further,