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The Forum > Article Comments > State-sanctioned killing > Comments

State-sanctioned killing : Comments

By Bill Calcutt, published 8/5/2015

The different legal and moral justifications for state-sanctioned killing between citizen/criminal/internal/law enforcement and alien/armed conflict/overseas/military contexts have become increasingly blurred.

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As Victoria has reportedly allowed abortion up to term does that mean that the knitting needle method of painless extermination is legal?

If it is, then the further question of procedure where the baby is in the breech position occurs, and will extra long needles be supplied?
Posted by Is Mise, Saturday, 9 May 2015 9:15:52 AM
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Are the issues here really so complicated?
If a person deliberately kills another person surely that person forfeits the right to life.
At that point the State has to right to terminate or not terminate the killer's life. That discretion should be delegated to a jury panel, not a single Judge. The burden of the decision making is too much for one person.
Why should the State feed and shelter for years and then release a man such as Mons ( Lindt Café), those rapists who held the Cobby girl's head underwater until she drowned.-- or the bastard who raped and killed that Irish girl in Melbourne while on bail or parole for another rape? I would volunteer to pull the lever that drops that lot through scaffold floor.

And surely the question of abortion is a matter of timing. Would the right to lifers say that the day after conception was too late to abort? Would the "pro- choicers" say it is OK as long as the umbilical cord has not been cut?-or 5 minutes before or 12 hours before or 2 days before or when?

Surely it is not a matter of absolute choice by one person, as at some stage there is another person, even if only partly formed to consider, as well as the putative father.

At some point in the gestation period there must be an end to the sole choice of the mother.
Then it should be a for a panel to weigh the wishes of the mother, the father, the damage to the mother's life, the chances of the child for a good life etc.
It becomes too complicated at some point of time for to be considered as a matter of "rights" either of the mother or the unborn child.

There may be many cases where the best outcome, weighing the interests of al persons or part- persons, concerned for adoption-- that great no- no of today's thinkers.
Posted by Old Man, Saturday, 9 May 2015 11:42:11 AM
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Bill overseas sanctioned killings which one questions these days, if we go to WW2 the Japanese were sanctioned to be killed, now our best friends, Iran "axis of evil" twelve months or so ago, we now have Bishop making friends, our enemies last week our friends this week, who are the friends and who are the enemies, completely lost, who knows Isis could be our friends before long,the wind changes direction all the time.
Think of all the enemies in the past who are now our friends, what a waste of sanctioned killings.
Posted by Ojnab, Saturday, 9 May 2015 3:37:24 PM
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Runner wrote: ok David f so you are fine with the executions in Indonesia for they were legal. It is also not legal for homosexuals to call their unions marriage here in Australia. So obviously you are fine with that.

Dear runner,

Whether or not I approve of the execution of Chan and Sumarakan or the executions were called state-sanctioned murder their executions were legal under Indonesian law. I am not an Indonesian and have no say in Indonesian law. Abbott should not have recalled the ambassador. Australia has a double standard toward Indonesia. Whitlam made Australia the first country to recognise the Indonesian occupation of East Timor and covered up the Indonesian army’s murder of four Australian journalists in Balibo. Hawke sold Steyr rifles to the Indonesians against the advice of his own military. At Canungra Australia trained the Indonesian Kopassus Division which commits atrocities. The present government doesn’t seem to care about the murderous Indonesian occupation of west Papua but gets its knickers in a twist because Indonesia executed two Australian thugs.

At present two people of the same sex cannot contract a legal marriage in Australia. If the law is changed they will be able to do so. It will not affect my marriage either way.

I think it was a tremendous positive step that a pregnant woman can get an abortion under good medical conditions. It was a victory for women. You and those who agree with you would like to turn the clock backward. I hope you will not succeed, and abortion will remain a legal right.

Neither Denny nor you seem to give a damn about the wishes and circumstances of a pregnant woman. It’s all about the fetus.

Some pregnant women will get abortions. If it continues to be legal they will get them by medically approved procedures. If it is again made illegal backyard butcher and coat hanger abortions will return, and some desperate women will commit suicide. You would bring those bad old days back.

Sex education including the use of contraceptives and freely available contraceptives will result in fewer abortions
Posted by david f, Saturday, 9 May 2015 5:35:28 PM
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Well said David F.
Thank goodness we do have safe, legal abortions in a country that is not held to ransom by religious hocus-pocus, but rather looks to the rights of women too.

No one likes abortion, but it will keep happening, whether it is legal or not, so it might as well be safe for the women.

Personally, I think there has been too much made of the executions of the 2 drug dealers.
The mad 'Hillsong' tribe even made Chan a 'Pastor' while he was in jail for drug dealing!
They will look for any media attention that will further their cause...
Posted by Suseonline, Sunday, 10 May 2015 1:06:38 AM
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Dear Suseonline,

I had a lovely cousin. During World War 2 she said goodbye to her boyfriend who went off to war. Two months later she got word that he was killed in action. She found herself pregnant and apparently felt she had no options. I don't think she felt she could tell her mother or father. She was seventeen years old and committed suicide.

If she had access to abortion at that time she probably would have decided on that, but she didn't have that option. I loved her and mourn her. It is fair to assume that her story is not the only one like that.

She could have lived her life, possibly gone to university and later married and had children if she could have had an abortion.

I am thankful that someone in similar circumstances in the present has the option.

Of course if she had used a contraceptive she wouldn't have been pregnant. Possibly she didn't have that knowledge, and they weren't available. Whatever happened happened.

I am glad we have the pill and think all girls should be instructed in its use.
Posted by david f, Sunday, 10 May 2015 8:59:47 AM
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