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The Forum > Article Comments > The secret country again wages war on its own people > Comments

The secret country again wages war on its own people : Comments

By John Pilger, published 27/4/2015

Aboriginal people are to be driven from homelands where their communities have lived for thousands of years.

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yes us evil white fella's, except for you John, only you have the clarity of vision to see past reality and come up with your own narrative.
Posted by Cobber the hound, Monday, 27 April 2015 9:24:27 AM
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John, all the governments both state and federal are saying is. If you choose to live a long way from any services, don't expect us to provide them. Why should I pay to support a community of eight people who have "returned" to country? If you want to go and live as your ancestors did, don't expect roads, housing, health care, and all the other benefits of modern civilisation.
Posted by Jon R, Monday, 27 April 2015 9:28:31 AM
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Why do these homeland communities need additional support from any government when they are already getting over $20,000 per adult person p[us an additional amount for each child? What are they doing with all this money?

David
Posted by VK3AUU, Monday, 27 April 2015 9:41:29 AM
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If there is a word for someone who refuses to change his prejudices, no matter what evidence one offers, and who keeps coming up with unbased assertions, I suppose that word is 'bigot'.

But after all, Bilger is entitled to be a bigot. He's got plenty of company. There's a Roman saying: asseritur gratis, negatur gratis: what is asserted without evidence, can be ignored (negated, denied) without the need for evidence. Of course, that won't stop Bilger.

I've just finished putting together a transcript (thanks, Alistair, for doing that) with an Index, of the 1935 Moseley Royal Commission in Western Australia. With the summary Report, it covers just over a thousand pages. A goldmine, especially for Western Australians. Give me an hour and I'll have it up on the web-site:

www.firstsources.info

Joe Lane
Adelaide
Posted by Loudmouth, Monday, 27 April 2015 9:59:54 AM
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This racist rant conveniently ignores so many truths. For example, Aboriginal people will not be forced off their land; instead, they will have to travel to access some services.
More important than the distortions contained in the article however is Pilger's throw-away comment that we have declared war on Aboriginal people. I've often wondered whether the Exdigenous people of Australia shouldn't formally declare war on Indigenous Australians, wait 30 seconds, then announce that the war has been won by the Exdigenous side who are prepared to sit down and negotiate a treaty with Indigenous Australians much like the treaty of Waitangi in NZ
Posted by Bernie Masters, Monday, 27 April 2015 10:29:39 AM
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Guys I don't think we should bother to comment on Pilger at all. That would send a clear message on what we think of his articles..
Posted by Curmudgeon, Monday, 27 April 2015 10:31:34 AM
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Yep, it's up. A huge job, 339,000 words. Enjoy !

I suppose when you are sitting somewhere in London, you can spin all sorts of fantasies. Of course, nobody is going to 'driven' off tiny 'communities, of five or six people. People have been coming and going to and from such 'communities' for years now, as they wish. My understanding is that, at any time, maybe half of the smallest 'communities - across Australia - are empty. Some have been empty for years.

A community (originally of 120 people) where I lived for some years was abandoned after the CDEP program there - allowing people on the dole there never to have to look for work - was scrapped. Last time I was there a couple of years ago, there was one, maybe two, families living there. A vast almond plantation there was dead, uncared for, unwatered.

I suspect that another fair-sized community further north has also been abandoned.

The jig may soon be up for the notion of people never having to work a day in their lives: that, no matter how remote one may be, either they look for work or they forego dole payments. he ghastly problem is that, because people have now had nearly fifty years of lifelong leisure, nobody knows what work actually is, and what skills one may need. As a direct consequence, nobody knows what education might be for either - if lifelong leisure, why education ?

So what pathways need to be developed to help people begin the long road to work ? Of course, being on their own country, they could always return to hunting and gathering, but that's not really likely, even with 4WDs and rifles, it palls after a while. Manual jobs ? Yes, of course, like so many other people.

Welcome to the world !

Joe
www.firstsources.info
Posted by Loudmouth, Monday, 27 April 2015 10:51:41 AM
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Don't be so silly Bernie, you don't make treaties with people you have defeated, who have surrendered. Them you dictate to.

You only make treaties with those it is proving very costly to defeat. Then the treaty is to get as much as possible for as little possible.

Making a treaty with a rabble is impossible.
Posted by Hasbeen, Monday, 27 April 2015 11:28:55 AM
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John Pilger hates his own country and fellow countrymen so much that he cannot even bear to live here. The fact that he is so eaten away by his hatred shows in the fact that he stills spends time venting his bile from the other side of the word. I suppose we shoul feel pity for him.

The current loafers existing (who could call it living) on the lands in question have not been their for 'thousands of years'; they are merely the descendents of people who first lived thousands of years ago. Given the lifestyle of the current occupiers, there could be have been nobody living their for more than two generations.

Allowing them to stay put as one case revealed today (an island community of 800 people costing the rest of us $68,000 per person per year) is no different from allowing white bludgers to stay on the dole just because their families have spent two or three generations on the dole.

"Aboriginal leaders (who) have warned of "a new generation of displaced people" and "cultural genocide" are unlikely to be leaders any sense of the word, are talking absolute rubbish to keep their own noses in the public trough.

These people and the likes of John Pilger are the ones actually promoting apartheid.

As for 'genocide', if Austalian politicians had any fortitude, they would sue Pilger for libel. If certain non-white, non-Australian groups were accused of genocide, he sky would fall in.
The 'stolen' generation (however Pilger's fevered imagination links that to the current situation) has been done and dusted, and is not worth talking about anymore.

Still, I suppose the long, drawn out tirades against his own kind will continue until the day of Pilger's death or infirmity; and Curmudgeon is right - we should ingnore the poor, deluded fellow.
Posted by ttbn, Monday, 27 April 2015 12:37:30 PM
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Joe,

"If there is a word for someone who refuses to change his prejudices, no matter what evidence one offers, and who keeps coming up with unbased assertions, I suppose that word is 'bigot'."

No, well yes, but John Pilger, to give him his due, has added to the English language,

"Pilgerism: a baseless and bigoted statement masquerading as fact."
Posted by Is Mise, Monday, 27 April 2015 12:52:22 PM
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John, I've only read the opening paragraph as it appears to be just another load of garbage once again playing the usual victim race card.

Nobody is forcing anybody to leave their homeland as you put it, Tony Abbott is rightfully saying that if they wish to stay there, then by all means do so, but notnon the public tit they have become so accustomed to.

Nothing wrong with that.

Furthermore, their own previous generations of elders would be humiliated to think their offspring, rather than providing for themselves, have become reliant on welfare. It would be like the elders of the past sealing from other peaceful tribes, it's just no on.

In fact, I would go one further and suggest the parents of these people should think carefully before bringing children into a world with little or no chance to prosper.
Posted by rehctub, Monday, 27 April 2015 1:03:46 PM
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I strongly disagree with John Pilger's article - in my view his claims and views are absolute BS and reflect a personality in deep denial. On the positive side however, I note that in no way am I surprised, as everything I have ever read of his seems to me to be almost the complete opposite to the prevailing real world situation.
Posted by Pliny of Perth, Monday, 27 April 2015 2:02:55 PM
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Risible rubbish and the delusions of the demented!?
Rhrosty.
Posted by Rhrosty, Monday, 27 April 2015 4:06:11 PM
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The thousands that have left home to work in the mines and agricultural industry would much prefer their cultural (where they were brought up) homes. Instead they got off their backsides and made sacrifices in order to make a living for their families. Hmmm.
Posted by runner, Monday, 27 April 2015 4:31:24 PM
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There is not a single shred of evidence of any 'stolen generations'. There does not exist any evidence that Aboriginal Australians should have any 'special' attachments to certain pieces of land than anyone else does; all humans enjoy personal space, and when that space changes due to circumstances beyond our control we soon get used to another and forget about the others. Who doesn't feel a kind of special attachment to 'their' office chair? This is simply more bilgerism from a trendy lefty long past his prime - if he ever had one.
Posted by Cody, Monday, 27 April 2015 4:48:10 PM
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Hi Cody,

I'm inclined to agree with you about a 'stolen' generation: children taken into care ? Yes, of course, just like for white kids. Mothers dying, fathers dying, or shooting through, families falling apart ? Yes, just like with white kids, perhaps a bit more frequently so a matter of degree.

The evidence from school records - at least from one major Aboriginal settlement - is that there was certainly no systematic removal of kids from families: in this particular settlement, with school records covering the period 1880-1966, a total of fewer than fifty children, out of eight hundred on the school roll in that time, were taken - almost always for a short time - into care. Almost every one was back in the community within a year. None were adopted out. None married white fellas, actually either.

Why were they taken into care ? In that period, forty women died leaving school-age children, usually from child-birth, but also from TB. Tuberculosis. A number of fathers died and the mothers - with young teenage daughters - re-married. Guess what happened.

What intriguing is WHEN this mostly happened: after the War - one can see from the school roll - the families with hard-working men left the settlement, to railway towns, forestry towns, etc., wherever infrastructure projects were happening. The more 'casual' families remained. So no surprise, when were most of those fifty-odd kids taken into care ?

The 1950s.

Another fact: that settlement had been set up as a Mission in 1859. When was the first police station in the area set up ? 1860 ? No. 1870 ? No.

1953.
Posted by Loudmouth, Monday, 27 April 2015 5:25:22 PM
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Dear Mr Pilger

As you are stoutly anti-Western, and your views generally coincide with the world according to Putin-RT-Pravda.ru, you might enjoy this one:
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Vladimir Putin, wanting to get on the good side of voters, went to visit a school in Moscow to have a chat with the children. He talked about how Russia is a powerful nation and how he wanted the best for the people.

At the end of the talk, there was opportunity for questions. Little Sasha raised her hand and asked "I have two questions ."

Go ahead’ said Putin.

"Why did the Russians take Crimea? And Why are we sending troops to the Ukraine?"

Putin replied, "Good questions!" But just as he was about to answer, the bell rang, and the kids dispersed to Lunch.

When they returned from lunch, they sit back down and resumed for more questions.

Another girl, Misha, put her hand up and asked, "I have Four questions."

‘Go ahead’ replied Putin.

"My Questions are - Why did the Russians invade Crimea? Why are we sending troops to the Ukraine? Why did the bell go 20 minutes early? And Where is Sasha?"
-
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Hope you enjoyed that Mr Pilger?
Posted by plantagenet, Monday, 27 April 2015 6:06:42 PM
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I would also like to bring it to bilger's notice that the 1997 report conducted by Sir Ronald Wilson concluded that Aboriginal Australians were subjected to such horrific treatment and behaviours that 'they were an act of genocide . . . '. It is very, very strange that the same Ronald Wilson made no such comparison or reference when he was on the Board of Governor's of Sister Kate's, (1950s) where supposedly such atrocities took place . . .
Posted by Cody, Monday, 27 April 2015 6:37:20 PM
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Brilliant, Pete ! Be very careful :)

As a former Marxist (if such is possible), I'm mindful of the shift in Marxist practice from organising for a proletarian revolution (revealed again and again to be a bit of a dead loss) to, following the advice of Gramsci, the 'march through the institutions', the corruption and undermining of any and all Western institutions and principles, by any means possible.

That might explain the Left's de facto support and apology for the most vile fascist practices of ISIS, since after all, they are not part of the West. And the constant dragging up of anything from the past which can put anything in the West into a bad light. Maybe, somewhere, there are courses in this sort of thing. What am I suggesting ?! Of course, there are, at every university, under the heading of 'cultural studies' etc.

Which is where Aboriginal Studies - to the extent that it's still being taught anywhere - has been used to play a role in a country like Australia (or New Zealand or Canada) where the boot can be well and truly sunk, with all manner of slurs and rumours and stories and outright lies. They all contribute to the hoped-for downfall of the West.

As a socialist, I certainly support the liberation of all people from oppression (including innocent people in the Middle East from ISIS fascism), of women from patriarchal societies, of workers from exploitation, and for a better world, through constant struggle certainly, but always above-board and with as few dirty tricks or lies as possible, if only because lies always come back to bite you.

So maybe we can understand the Bilger phenomenon in those terms: the willingness to suck up to anybody as long as they are anti-West. Gramsci would have been proud.

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Monday, 27 April 2015 6:45:58 PM
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Hi Joe

Yep I agree with you.

The likes of James -- certainly have a strange stated liking of Putin because Putin (although a neo-fascist) is anti-West. My Enemy's Enemy is my Friend.

The Russian foreign policy song sheet also designates al Qaeda and IS as being Western created. Some loonies even say the Head of IS is a Jewish agent - sure :)

So OLO has many strange bedfellows. So-called Leftists whose views would be considered rightwing and anti-Semitic in any sober and democratic courtroom.

Cheers

Pete
Posted by plantagenet, Monday, 27 April 2015 7:04:08 PM
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Here we go again.
Responses to Pilger's articles are as predictable as his stance.

Many may disagree with his conclusions but how many of the arguments are based on incorrect facts from Pilger?

It seems to come down to some people simply living in denial and not wanting to know what is happening around them and challenging the way they prefer to see the world.

How many others are aware that The Intervention policy introduced was based on unsubstantiated lies from a member of then-Minister Mal Brough's staff masquerading as as somebody working in the aboriginal community?

Not many I think.

Now Andrew Bolt is publicly suggesting that the aboriginals were not even the continent's "first people" but exterminated some mysterious race of pygmies that were here when they arrived.

Pauline Hanson was promoting rumours of tribal cannibalism - something some were eager to hear and also promote.

Weren't those selective comments intended to create a manufactured scenario?

It never ends.
Posted by wobbles, Monday, 27 April 2015 9:19:15 PM
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Not quite exterminated, the (smaller) Tasmanian aborigine still lives on in a few Tasman strait island communities!
Rhrosty.
Posted by Rhrosty, Tuesday, 28 April 2015 1:24:18 PM
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And why would a family of vicious white racists ever adopt a black child?
Posted by Cody, Tuesday, 28 April 2015 2:56:23 PM
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Hi Wobbles,

If you could just name one of Bilger's 'truths', I'm sure many of us would be happy to rip the daylights out of it :)

Cheers,

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Tuesday, 28 April 2015 4:14:37 PM
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Hi Pete,

Still waiting for Wobbles :) Three days now. Do you think he's forgotten us :(

He did raise some issues though - he may not be aware that there may have been three or four waves of people gradually moving down from south-east Asia and Papua-New Guinea - after all, why not, if people could get here once, why not many times ? There may have been a couple of different groups before the Ice Age 25,000-30,000 years ago, and there most certainly may have been some migration over the past 5,000 years, which brought the dingo from either Vietnam or southern India, I think the jury's still out on that.

And there certainly were groups of small people, up in the Atherton Tablelands - Tindale and Joseph Birdsell did a lot of work with them around Kuranda (I think in the 1930s), and there are photos of a group in about 1910, and of Birdsell with some men, they all seem around five feet tall (150 cm). No real surprise there, since there are pockets of small people all over south-east Asia and southern India, and around the Mediterranean.

I suspect that all people, ALL people, in the world have at some time been cannibals, even just symbolically, insofar as symbolically eating one's enemies is pretty common in myth everywhere. Maoris and Fijians are very strongly rumoured to have captured and fattened people up specifically to be eaten. Of course, these may be just rumours, pulling the pakehas' legs, but 'narrative' is sometimes quite valid. Who are we do deny the cultural veracity of Maori 'story' ? That would be so insensitive.

And there wasn't much meat-based protein up there in the Scottish Highlands back in the days of the Picts ......

And my Irish great-great-grandmother's eyes would go all misty at the memory of those people from over the hill ..... especially, it seemed, their priest ...... delicious !

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Thursday, 30 April 2015 8:10:28 AM
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Hi Wobbles,

You're a bit quiet, are you okay ?

Just to help you along: let's look at a key issue, such as Indigenous deaths in custody.

The proportion of prisoners who are Indigenous is about 28 %.

Each year, the proportion of deaths in custody who are Indigenous is about 28 %.

What would you actually expect ? Indigenous people make up about 3 % of the Australian population. Are you suggesting - or is Mr Bilger suggesting - that only 3 % of deaths in custody should be Indigenous, and no more ?

Then, what proportion of deaths in custody should be Indigenous if only 3 % of the prisoner population was Indigenous ? 3 % ? Yes ! Yes, indeed ! Exactly ! 3 % of prisoners, 3 % of deaths in custody.

And if, let's say, NO prisoners were Indigenous, what proportion of deaths in custody should be Indigenous ? That's right, 0 %. None.

Regrettably, 80 % of prisoners in the Northern Territory are Indigenous. So the proportion of deaths in custody in the N.T should be no higher than 80 %. I wish it was far less, but that would mean far fewer incarcerations, and THAT would mean far fewer crimes committed. Am I suggesting that Indigenous people commit crimes, out of proportion to their population ? Yes. I wish they didn't, but that's their choice. [Get stuck in !]

The proportion of deaths in custody who are Indigenous depends on the proportion of prisoners who are Indigenous. It actually has nothing to do with the proportion of Indigenous people within the Australian population as a whole.

Would you like to discuss this further ? Or let another lie through to Mr Bilger for his gullible British public ?

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Saturday, 2 May 2015 7:45:47 PM
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