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The Forum > Article Comments > Australia should develop Open Government Partnership > Comments

Australia should develop Open Government Partnership : Comments

By Kellie Tranter, published 7/4/2015

The Abbott government seems to have an aversion to informed criticism and self reflection. It seems to be run as a separate and autonomous corporation bearing the hallmarks of many religious institutions with its high priests, dogma and secrecy.

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Indeed, the lion should become vegetarian, all animals must be equal, earthquakes must give a 24-hour notice, rapists should follow a professional code of honour and pickpockets must wear a distinctive uniform.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Tuesday, 7 April 2015 10:01:15 AM
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Fly me to the moon or Jupiter or mars!

No, on second thoughts Kellie, it be easier to dig a hole in the shoreline sand, then take a bucket and empty the ocean into it!

Try doing it on an ebbing tide, it'll at least give a temporary illusion of outstanding success; as does dreaming!
Rhrosty.
Posted by Rhrosty, Tuesday, 7 April 2015 12:09:22 PM
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A good piece, very much in line with some of the ideas of behavioural economics.

The only way to move away from the idea of politics as a zero-sum game is to foster cooperation based on free flows of information at the party and electorate level. At election times there is no reason that candidates should do the same, but once a Government is formed the game is no longer "winner take all" and should not be played that way, on either side.

Just as importantly, it's not a fight staged for the commentary of second-rate media hacks, although that is very much the way it's played on all sides.

As the comments here show and let's face it, they're pretty mild compared to what can be heard elsewhere, the public is not remotely happy with the current way that political parties do business and what's more, the country is starting to show the effects of treating public policies as a prize to be fought over by vested interests.

If anyone doubts that the adversarial model is a failure at creating good outcomes I suggest they have a quick chat to any family lawyer. Alternatively, have a quick look at any thread on this site that deals with contentious issues. There are no meetings of minds, no solutions, no progress of any kind, just groups talking past each other, for all the world like a Question Time session.

Stick with it Kellie, this is an important conversation that we really need to have.
Posted by Craig Minns, Tuesday, 7 April 2015 1:06:56 PM
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Dear Craig,

When two teams play a sport they may seem to see it as a zero-sum game, but both would rather keep playing even if they lose than stop playing at all.

From the perspective of the ball, however, it's the other way around: being beaten from side to side, the best outcome is that the game be stopped - it cares not which side beats stronger or more accurately.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Tuesday, 7 April 2015 2:01:23 PM
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Hello Yuyutsu,
The point I was making is that it is possible to create a positive sum game.

Unfortunately, your response shows how successful the process of teaching the public that only a zero-sum solution is possible has been.

The thing is that there is an enormous vacuum waiting to be filled and sooner or later someone is going to do just that. It's quite crazy that we have so many of our best and brightest minds devoted to presenting a slightly more sophisticated version of school debating competitions as the highest public expression of the democratic process. It's even crazier that our system of government is so dependent on carefully planned "leaks" and the quasi-educated guesswork of unelected talking heads to inform the public (and political opponents, often) of the workings of Governments and oppositions.

Let's face it, if the people in our Parliament are so untrustworthy, what does it say about us that we elect them?

The reality, of course is that they are not untrustworthy, they're stuck in a game in which trust is deliberately excluded from the rules.
Posted by Craig Minns, Tuesday, 7 April 2015 4:46:04 PM
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Dear Craig,

<<Unfortunately, your response shows how successful the process of teaching the public that only a zero-sum solution is possible has been.>>

Solution for what?
Do we even agree on the what the problem is?

I don't know anything about this "process" because I refuse to be indoctrinated. I don't have a TV and whatever these bastards say I'm not listening to anyway.

The author writes: "Open Government is about knowing what your government is up to" - this is not MY government and I don't care about knowing what they are up to, let them do whatever they like and they don't need to tell me anything so long as they get out of my life. I don't mind whether between them they to play a zero-sum game or any other game that pleases them - I just want them out of the way, I want them to stop kicking me!

<<what does it say about us that we elect them?>>

I don't know any of my friends who did, but I know of many who thought that by voting they could slightly minimise the damage, as well as avoid a fine.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Tuesday, 7 April 2015 7:37:17 PM
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I suspect most people would like our governments to be far more accountable and open. Unfortunately "most people" never seems to include politicians in the party holding power at the time.

I did find the references to Obamas apparent endorsement of open government interesting in light of his administrations determined fight against open government in many areas.

I don't think a practical opposition to genuine open government is the domain of either side of politics here of in any other country I'm aware of. They all seem to protect secrets not because they are genuine national secrets but because the selective control of information can help them individually and help their side politically.

R0bert
Posted by R0bert, Tuesday, 7 April 2015 9:15:09 PM
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Hi Yuyutsu,
I think we do agree on what the problem is and your comment sums it up pretty well

*whatever these bastards say I'm not listening to anyway*

A better summation of the end result of a process that destroys trust could not be found.

The problem is that you and the majority of people don't trust politicians. Why? Because they have been taught by media and by politicians themselves that to do so is to act against their own self-interest.

Our model of politics is fundamentally broken. It is derived from a social classist model that is simply not relevant to the modern age and it needs to be changed. Labor is not the party of brawny, ill-educated working class men who are fundamentally at odds with bosses and the LNP is not the party of plutocrats and wealthy landed gentry seeking to exploit the masses.

Those are both simply caricatures of convenience for the feeble-minded and they are immensely destructive.

It results in people like your friends, who are completely disengaged from the most basic exercise of their rights as citizens. Even sheep bleat a protest when the dog nips too hard.

R0bert, the keeping of secrets is not intrinsically a bad thing, however if it becomes reflexive it can not be anything else but bad. The Opposition and Government are not natural enemies, they are partners in the enterprise of running the country. They are Australia's Board of Directors in a manner of speaking. Their job is to make good decisions as our representatives and to explain to us why they have made them so we understand.

For the most part they have done a pretty decent job over the years, but they have not adapted well to the change in society that has seen the classes they grew out of smeared together and with no natural divide they have sought to create "wedges" of perceived self-interest.It's lazy and its ultimately self-defeating.
Posted by Craig Minns, Wednesday, 8 April 2015 6:22:20 AM
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Dear Craig,

We would be in luck if that was the whole problem.

Even if we had democracy and transparency in Australia along with a different political model that is not class-based, this would only alleviate marginal issues, but not get to the core of the problem.

The core problem is the coercion of people under threat of violence to follow orders and "belong" to a group of people whether they like it or not. This is what territorial-based states do and is unacceptable, regardless of their internal political mechanisms. Further, the larger the state - the larger the evil as it imposes its control over all the people who live in a larger area.

Association of people with society(s) should only be voluntary. Once people voluntarily belong to a society, then and only then it is fruitful to discuss the optimisation of their governing body(s) - until then, I would never expect the agents of violence to be honestly caring for you and me, then lack of transparency is only a symptom for they still attempt to convince the sheep among us that they care.

You assume that I was taught to mistrust by media and politicians, but this is not the case. Firstly, I do not mistrust politicians - I trust them to serve their own interests and never expected otherwise. Secondly, my political views are based on spiritual principles and the application of logic, rather than on media and politicians, to both I am hardly exposed.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Wednesday, 8 April 2015 12:28:48 PM
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