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The Forum > Article Comments > The death penalty is a wider issue than the Bali Nine > Comments

The death penalty is a wider issue than the Bali Nine : Comments

By Xavier Symons, published 10/3/2015

The sporadic executions of Australian citizens in foreign jails, however, ought to spur us on to demand the abolition of the death penalty internationally.

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All predictable stuff of the wet liberal-left variety with banal comments.

"The sporadic executions of Australian citizens in foreign jails, however, ought to spur us on to demand the abolition of the death penalty internationally."

O yes and ban the Bomb, global warming, and also war...how bout violence against men?

I looked at the author's website http://www.bioedge.org/ and found another post:

"British mum becomes surrogate for son’s baby"

much more intriguing http://www.bioedge.org/index.php/bioethics/bioethics_article/11356 :

"The relationships of the three people are tangled, to say the least. Anne-Marie is the mother of Kyle, and both the mother and the grandmother of Miles. Miles is both the half-brother and the son of Kyle. Kyle is both the son and the “husband” of Anne-Marie."
Posted by plantagenet, Tuesday, 10 March 2015 11:08:05 AM
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Wet-liberal?
The Mercator based Bioedge website is run by the right-wing deeply misogynist outfit Opus Dei.
You know the people that practice bodily mortification on a daily basis.
Would you send your children to a school run by people who practice and/or advocate such practice?
They are also in the ranks of those who are "skeptical" about humanly caused climate change, and pretend that humankind is not faced with an all the way down the line problem of over-population, pretending that humankind can keep on increasing its numbers indefinitely.
No doubt that when Pope Francis releases his much anticipated communication re humankind and the very real humanly caused environmental crisis various Opus Dei propaganda hacks will be in the fore-front of attempting to shout him down. Those from the (USA) based Opus Dei outfit Ethics & Public Policy propaganda factory for instance.

No mention too that the Rick Perry the very right-wing "catholic" Governor of Texas has overseen at least 274 public executions during his term(s) of office. Perry may or may not be a member of Opus Dei, but he has deep associations with it.
Posted by Daffy Duck, Tuesday, 10 March 2015 11:25:41 AM
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Off Topic

http://www.skynews.com.au/news/top-stories/2015/03/10/-1-billion-cut-to-car-industry-abandoned.html :

"Industry Minister Ian Macfarlane will unveil the change of heart in Adelaide on Tuesday ahead of a visit by Prime Minister Tony Abbott on Wednesday."

Looks like Abbott's best policy is no-change or to adopt Labor policies.
Posted by plantagenet, Tuesday, 10 March 2015 11:26:11 AM
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I would not advocate the Death Penalty in this country because we have a very corrupt and easily corruptible legal system, Indonesia has a different system, three judges with investigative powers, they don't tolerate the swami solicitors that get away with murder and hoodwink juries that operate in Australia, it is bit like "the high court" but they trust three, don't need seven. in this particular case there is no question of their guilt, and they knew of the penalty. The suggestion that there is no "humane" way to kill is not believable, I have been "put to sleep" a number of times and warned "you may not wake up" I did not experience any aggravation at all, so the claim that prisoners suffered in agony is bunk! Rehabilitation? well very useful, they can be "persuaded" to do the bidding of corrupt "officials" contributing to the sea of corruption that exists through our society the screaming that is going on would be better used to change our "legal system" to something that is more accountable.
Posted by lockhartlofty, Tuesday, 10 March 2015 1:28:05 PM
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"The Australian government, media and people seldom speak with one voice. With the impending execution of the Bali 9 ringleaders, we are experiencing one of those rare moments when they do" says Xavier.

Tell me Xavier, just where do you live, an inner city apartment in Sydney, Melbourne or Canberra? It most certainly is not out here in the real Australia.

I have heard a few ladies, who would agree with you, but the men are saying, where do we send the ammunition, to help them get it over with, & stop the bleeding heart blood running out of our TVs every news session. I have not heard a single bloke who has any sympathy for this scum, & they almost scream, "don't send this rubbish back here"
Posted by Hasbeen, Tuesday, 10 March 2015 2:19:55 PM
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dogma 1 which must always be quoted by those argueing against the death penalty.

'The death penalty is not a deterrent.'

What an idiotic thing to say even know some academic will quote a totally irrelevant study. By all means argue against the death penalty but don't insult the intelligence of the average person who knows that it is a deterrent. To what degree it is a deterrent can be debated.
Posted by runner, Tuesday, 10 March 2015 2:30:33 PM
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Well the Australian Government, media and people are not going to be able to stand on this issue with one voice since I think they should bring back the death penalty...
-And the last time I looked at my Australian birth certificate and passport I was an Australian citizen.

So I'm sorry you can just take that fanciful wish and forget it.

Whilst I think that the death penalty should be reintroduced, I believe it should be reserved for the harshest of crimes.
People who prey on the innocent, who commit cold blooded murder on men, women and children without cause.
People that are consistently repeat offenders of child molestation and rape who show blatent disregard for human life.

I'm not sure that people who commit drug offenses - even trafficking of heroin - should face the death penalty.
But lets be honest.. Many people may have died from the heroin that the Bali Nine were importing.
They were happy to put other peoples lives at risk.

But if I am going to be honest, let me be really honest.

The Australian Government itself has the blood of Australian citizens on its hands for indirectly supporting the heroin trade.
By that, I am referring to our partnership with the US government, going into Afghanistan and re-establishing the herion trade there which had been completely stopped under the Taliban and re-established under the protection of coalition forces.
And make no mistake, that heroin has came to our shores and most likely been responsible for the deaths of Australians here at home.

Why should taxpayers end up paying $60,000+ yearly to keep someone alive in prison who showed no respect for human life when they had their freedom?
Should we really be the ones to pay for their mistakes?

Don't worry about trying to be humane with lethal injections.
Firing squad is just fine, and a whole lot cheaper.

And FYI, I don't even care whether it is a deterrent or not.
Again - why should we pay for their mistakes?? - Is a better argument...
Posted by Armchair Critic, Tuesday, 10 March 2015 2:49:15 PM
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Well Hasbeen, here is one man who deplores the likely execution of the Bali Nine pair and who believes that the taking of human life under any circumstances is a crime. When authorities resort to judicial murder they render themselves no better than their victims. If your view of the "Real Australia" is correct (and I very much doubt that), then give me an inner city apartment any day. Runner, I agree the question of the death penalty as a deterrent can be debated, but I have not come across a single instance of where the introduction of the death penalty has led to a fall in the rate of the crime for which it was introduced. The US has the death penalty for murder in some States and yet murders per head of population remain higher than Australia and the UK, which do not. China has the death penalty for extreme cases of corruption, yet corruption continues to be rife at almost all levels of China's society. I would suggest the death penalty's deterrent value is so insignificant as to be meaningless, while forever denying the possibility of rehabilitation (which should be the aim of all punishment) and worse still, raising the prospect of an innocent person receiving a penalty for which there can never be redress.
Posted by Graham Cooke, Tuesday, 10 March 2015 2:59:51 PM
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Xavier Symonds presumes to use the word "we" in his claim that we Australians do not support the death penalty.

I would be very happy to have a referendum on the subject but I doubt if the anti death penalty advocates would want that, because they know that they would probably lose. The death penalty in the USA is so popular with the electorate that politicians supporting the death penalty can be assured of a majority of votes.

But democracy in Australia only goes so far. When the leadership of both of our tweedledee/tweedledum Lib/Lab parties decide that they do not want the death penalty, they just get together and make sure that the issue is never put to a vote. Then people like Xavier Symonds can pretend that they are speaking for all Australians, when they know damn well we have never been allowed to express our opinion through the ballot box.

Not content to undemocratically prevent the death penalty in Australia. Xavier wants to wag his finger at the 100 or so countries in the world who are sensible enough to have a death penalty. One wonders what Xavier and his chardonnay sucking friends would do if Muslims throughout the world demanded that Xavier and his mates stop drinking wine? He would probably be outraged that somebody from another country and culture should have the effrontery to tell Xavier what to do.

Well Xavier, that works both ways. This is a guy who really does think that his moral position is absolute. He would make a great Muslim. They think that way too about alcohol, bikinis and free speech, Xavier.

Give us a plebiscite, Xavier, and I will accept whatever is the result. To paraphrase the American patriots of Boston, "No anti execution without representation!"
Posted by LEGO, Tuesday, 10 March 2015 4:02:55 PM
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Does anyone know how many innocent people have been murdered by repeat offenders and is this number greater or lesser than the number of innocent people put to death?
Posted by Is Mise, Tuesday, 10 March 2015 5:10:39 PM
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I agree with LEGO that a referendum on the death penalty even held now would be a close-run thing. But in the end the death penalty was abolished in Australia, the European Union and elsewhere, not because it was the popular thing to do, but because it was right.
Posted by Graham Cooke, Tuesday, 10 March 2015 5:30:58 PM
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I'm not a fan of the death penalty, it's difficult to undo but I do disagree with the authors take on this. A couple of points that stuck out

"No one is debating its morality any more." and yet my impression is that that most polls indicate majority support for the death penalty for some crimes.

The issues with poor chemical mixes used in some US executions have been horrible but the blame for that lies in my view primarily with those who have worked to disrupt access to the more proven mixes. I've also read the detail of the horrors inflicted on their victims by a couple of those who have had difficult executions and my heart fails to bleed for the short and relatively mild suffering they endured. If those opposed to the death penalty really cared about the suffering of those being executed they would stop their campaigns to hinder access to the materials used in the execution and work exclusively at changing the laws.

Two Australians and a number of others are likely to face a firing squad in the near future. Those went to a country with a known death penalty for the crimes they intended to commit.

In the mean time a number of Australians will die due to not being able to afford medication they need, others will take their own lives sometimes in part due to external pressures they have not been able to cope with. Others may die as victims of drink drivers, truck drivers pushed to hard to meet deadlines etc. Will the media and pollies hold vigils and risk relationships to change any of that?

R0bert
Posted by R0bert, Tuesday, 10 March 2015 7:44:35 PM
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'not because it was the popular thing to do, but because it was right.'

Yes Graham and it is wrong to slaughter the unborn in the womb despite the convenience and popularity among feminist.
Posted by runner, Tuesday, 10 March 2015 11:34:16 PM
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I can give you are fair idea, Is Mise.

In the last three decades of the death penalty in Australia, no innocent criminal was put to death. But I can name five women who would have lived if four abductor/ rapist/ murderers had been hanged.

Daniel Miles was convicted of the murder of Yolande Michael while on the run from a NSW prison. He had escaped from prison where he was serving time for the murder of 16 year old Donna Newland.

In the mid sixties, Leonard Keith Lawson was released from prison after abducting and murdering a 15 year old girl. While on parole he raped and murdered 15 year old Mary Jane Bower at Collaroy, in Sydney. With the police looking for him, he entered SCEGGS girls school in Bowral, and attempted to abduct a schoolgirl. In the struggle with a heroic teacher, he fired a sawn off rifle several times, wounding the female teacher and killing 15 year old Wendy Luscombe.

When Gordon Barry Hadlow was released from a Queensland prison after 22 years, for the rape and murder of a six year old girl, Samantha Dorothy Bacon, he then abducted, raped, and murdered a 9 year old girl, Sharon Margaret Hamilton.

Leigh Robinson was sentenced to death for the stabbing murder of 17 year old shop assistant Valerie Dunn on June 8, 1968, in Melbourne. His sentence was commuted to 30 years jail after a mercy plea was accepted by the Victorian State government of the day. Released after 15 years, he continued his war on our society with convictions for rape, sexual assault of two underage girls, breaking and entering, and theft. In 2008, Robinson murdered Tracey Greenbury, 32, after having an argument with her, and chasing the terrified woman down a street with a shotgun, before literally blowing most of her head off in front of an elderly female neighbour
Posted by LEGO, Wednesday, 11 March 2015 4:47:30 AM
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I really cannot understand all the fuss about a few executions. If ever there is an example of the politicians and the media ignoring the will of the people, this is it. What chance do you think you would have getting on to ABC talkback and advocating their execution?

However, in a spirit of harmony, I would advocate an Australian solution.

I would suggest that as Australians, their case be dealt with under Rule 303.
Posted by plerdsus, Wednesday, 11 March 2015 7:15:15 AM
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A KILLER who was twice paroled and then killed for a third time today lost a battle for the right to appeal a life jail term for the murder of Raechel Betts.

Court of Appeal judge Justice Bernard Bongiorno ruled there is no reasonable prospect John Leslie Coombes would succeed in winning a minimum term on his life sentence.

Justice Bongiorno said that Coombes is nearly 57-years-old and his record as a triple murderer means he could not get a minimum term of less than 35 years, taking him well beyond any prospect of parole in his 90s.

Earlier this year Coombes pleaded guilty in the Supreme Court to murdering 27-year-old Ms Betts. The court heard Coombes strangled the childcare worker and dismembered her body in a bathtub before throwing her remains off a pier.

In 1985 he was sentenced to life for the murder of a man named Henry Kells, but served only 11 years.

In 1998 he was sentenced to 15 years with a minimum of 10 for murdering Michael Speirani - a killing he committed nine months before the Kells murder.

In early 2007 he was again given parole.
Posted by LEGO, Wednesday, 11 March 2015 11:42:47 AM
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Yes Lego, the only way to stop a murdered doing it again in Oz is to put them down

No matter how bad one is, a bunch of, parole board bleeding hearts, activists, & some physiologists/Psychiatrists giving their "expert" testimony will have the murderer out to strike again, & probably again.

Now if we made all those responsible for the release of murderers pay the price of the subsequent murders their stupidity leads to, I could almost accept it. At least that might get a few bleeding hearts out of the prisons.
Posted by Hasbeen, Wednesday, 11 March 2015 12:05:49 PM
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