So, all you do gooders complain that David Hicks was hard done by,

Imagine this, a guy joins a well known paedophile group, meets the leader, trains with him, (learns how to kidnap and abuse)writes letters to his mother how he is going to abuse children. Then gets caught, spends years in jail and is released on a technicality.

And he says but I didn't abuse anyone, I just met with them and learned how to abuse, but I didn't have the opportunity (yet)to abuse anyone, so I am innocent. I just went on Holidays to a paedophile camp.

Would Bill Shorten say "he was probably foolish and an injustice has been done on him" ?.

David Hicks KNEW what he was doing. You don't need a degree to know killing is wrong and terrorist activities and being associated with them is wrong.

He did his time and has been punished.

Yes our legal system is in trouble, when the academic twits who actually instruct in our law schools are more interested in some academic point of law, then in justice.

Yes I know it is very naive of me to expect the legal fraternity to be interested in justice, it doesn't pay as well as convoluted points of law.

Any system that did not line a traitor up against a wall is basically a perverted system, run for the good of the profession, & no one else.

Gentlemen,

Lets examine the facts.

Amnesty International to this day maintains that
Hicks was illegally detained without being
charged and without a fair trial for years. And
when he did have a trial - the military commission
he appeared before never met International standards
for fair trials.

Antony Loewenstein writing for The Guardian newspaper
tells us that it's perfectly legitimate to ask David
Hicks tough questions about his background and his
beliefs but none of this justifies long-term jailing,
torture, and psychological abuse. We're told that this
didn't stop Australian Commentators from baying for blood.

In 2011 News Limited's Miranda Devine dismissed any critics
of Guantanamo's detention practices as "whingers." Those
thinking that "suspected terrorists" being "smacked around a
bit" constituted overly harsh treatments were naive, she wrote.
In other words David Hicks deserved what he got.

When Hicks was still in Guantanamo Bay in 2007, Devine also
referred to him as a "well-trained terrorist" and for years
David Hicks was primarily referred to in the corporate press
as a "terrorism supporter" by Murdoch columnists such as
Tim Blair and others. Fair trial be damned.

Loewenstein tells us that repeat government smears against
individuals deemed suspect is nothing new... Therefore in
the "war on terror" we see a new generation of journalists who
blindly re-hash propaganda dressed-up as facts about ever-illegal
detention and intelligence.

According to Loewenstein there is documentary evidence
suggesting that in 2007 former PM John Howard asked the United
States to manage the Hicks case.

Colonel Morris Davis, the former Chief Prosecutor of Military
Commissions told US journalist Jason Leopold in 2011 that
he had concerns about the Bush Administration charging Hicks.

There was "no doubt in my mind," Davis added that "this issue
was an accommodation to help Howard by making the David Hicks
case go away (in an election year)."

Loewenstein stresses that Justice for Hicks through a
formal apology and legal re-address is vital to restore a
modicum of Australian credibility.

We need accountability - a Royal Commission,
a full judicial review about the David Hicks case.
John Howard owes the country that.

Binoy, within hours of Al Qaida bombing the World Trade Centre, Australia's Prime Minister invoked the ANZUS alliance and Australia became the first ally of the USA to be officially at war with Al Qaida. Hicks was at that time training in Al Qaida camps. After 9/11, he was taking part in military operations against the Northern Alliance, who were now our allies.

Now, I don't know how they define treason in whatever country that you hailed from, but in western countries, if you take up arms against your own country or it's allies in wartime, you are a traitor.

I do not understand how treason is no longer treason in the Australian legal statute books. I suppose that like the death penalty, our presumed betters just decided that treason was an obsolete concept and they abolished it without consulting the people. That was probably because so many educated people seem to possess anti western bigotry and their sympathies are with the enemy. But most Australians still understand what treason is, and we are outraged that Hicks was not tied to tree and executed. We really do not care if the yanks kicked the ever lovin' sheet right out of him, and since he is still breathing, my opinion is that he got off very lightly.

I am really happy that that fool of a Labor leader has expressed sympathies with Hicks, because that is exactly the sort of thing which will enrage the sort of people who once could be relied upon to vote Labor. And the more that people like yourself express sympathies for Hicks, the more that Australians will see that the Human Rights Council of which you are a member, does nothing except defend the interests of criminals, traitors, terrorists, and illegal immigrants.

Which is why I would never make a decent Prime minister, I would have sent the SAS into Guantanamo to rescue an Australian held hostage by armed forces..illegally.

Was Hicks a twat, yes, but you don't treat twats that way. If stupidity was a crime, Tony Abbott would be in jail.

As to Kirby's hyperbole, you would do nothing with said person because they committed no crime ! Do we arrest every soldier because they have been training to commit murder ?

Yeah well Hicksy should get $Millions in compo, his lawyer half, and appearance money at every gathering of nongs.

What I like about Hicksy is his timing. Joins an al Qaeda terror camp to learn how to shoot Aussies and blow them up - just before his capture.

Here's http://thejusticecampaign.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/img004.jpg

If Hicksy was injured by the back-blast of his terrorist RPG7 rocket launcher he should get Aussie compo.

Shouldn't he?

"There is one thing I wish to explain about jihad the non-believers, Jews and Americans in the western world are determined to prevent it to come back again. Jihad is still valid today and will be for all time. The West is full of poison. The western society is controlled by the Jews with music, TV, houses, cars, free sex takes Muslims away from the true Islam keeps Islam week and in the third world.

Real jihad is possible just like before in the Prophets day where martyrs die with a smile on their faces and their bodies stay smelling of beautiful perfume for weeks after death.

The West lives in the dark in a narrow sort of living. Allah will use his servants to punish non-believers in this world.

As a Muslim young and fit my responsibility is to protect my brothers from aggressive non-believers and not let them destroy it. Islam will rule again but for now we must have patience we are asked to sacrifice our lives for Allahs cause why not? There are many privileges in heaven. It is not just war it is jihad.

We must do this because we are forced simply because the West knows how strong Islam is when practiced.

One reward I get in being martyred I get to take ten members of my family to heaven who were destined for hell

But first I also must be martyred. We are all going to die one day so why not be martyred?

As a post script: If I do get martyred that is what I want. If Dad rings and says that, you know that your son is dead, say congratulations. Allah will help just let him know that you are happy about it.

The only true Muslims are those fighting.

I am now very well trained for jihad in weapons some serious like anti-aircraft missiles.

The Jews have complete financial and media control many of them are in the Australian government."

An Aussia Islamic State trainee last week? No http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/defence/in-david-hickss-own-words/story-e6frg8yx-1111115167069

Dear Plantagenet,

It is perfectly legitimate, indeed crucial, as Antony
Loewenstein points out in his article for The Guardian,
to ask David Hicks tough questions about his background,
his belief in the Taliban and his nauseating old letters
praising bin Laden. But none of this justifies long-term
jailing, torture, and psychological abuse.

David Hicks spent nearly six years in Guantanamo where he
was abused and tortured. While it is crucial to question his
background his treatment by our government and at the hands
of the US was not justified. Let us take a look at the
facts:

Loewenstein tells us that David Hicks was interrogated,
tortured and held in isolation for nearly six years in
Guantanamo including 244 days in solitary confinement in a
closet-sized cell without sunlight. He was also experimented on
by US Military Doctors during his incarceration (a new study
by the Task Force on Preserving Medical Professionalism found that
doctors tortured suspected "terrorists" at Guantanamo Bay).

Amnesty International maintains that David Hicks was illegally
detained without a fair trial for years and that when he did
have one - the Military Commission he appeared before never met
International Standards for fair trials.

I would assume that most Australians would not want a
society that did not support the rule of law and due
process. It would be extremely disturbing if that was not
the case.

For me there are two parts to this that stick out.

1/ The way western legal systems operate and the limitations and safeguards we typically expect them to contain and the expectation that western governments are subject to law.

2/ The choices made by David Hicks and the response from various individuals and groups to what he has done and the way he was treated.

Some of my thoughts on those points
1/ I am concerned that the US both then and now appears to have been operating outside the law and putting aside legal safeguards in it's war on terror. There are a number of issues of concern about that but the key points for me are
- Where does that stop? The precedents are set so what happens when it's not muslim extremists that those in power in the US want dead or information from.
- I think a lot of the choices being made to operate outside the law are helping promote extremism. When they get it wrong it gives a wide circle a genuine grievance and creates a worse, not better situation.
- When governments operate outside the law we are all at risk. They get used to the power and tend to find ways to extend its use rather than reign it in.

2/ I have no sympathy for Hicks himself who chose to go and fight with the Taliban (http://www.amnesty.org.au/hrs/comments/david_hicks_the_story_so_far/). In my view there was enough known about the extremes of the Taliban for a long time before 911 that anyone choosing to side with them is vermin or utterly negligent.
Pretty hard to recreate what a web search in about the year 2000 would have shown but I recall knowing of enough about them prior to 911 to be repelled. Some light reading on the group that Hicks chose to fight with

' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban_treatment_of_women
http://www.rawa.org/rules.htm
http://www.amnesty.org.uk/womens-rights-afghanistan-history#.VObg0y5qKB0
http://www.feminist.org/afghan/taliban_women.asp
https://www.mtholyoke.edu/~mvcarmac/women2.html

I think the USA has done wrong but that does not create any desire to feel sympathy for those like Hicks and others who have supported brutal ideologies.

R0bert

First of all it now seems highly likely that the Sept 11 twin towers "bombing" was a carefully orchestrated inside job false-flag operation. So in this case who were the real "terrorists"?
One of the prime villains was of course the village idiot from Texas who subsequently awarded the "freedom" medal to our lying rodent for his services to the coalition of the killing, and its pre-planned shock-and-awe invasion of Iraq. An invasion which was justified using multiple lies. It was also illegal under international law. It could therefore be said that both the village idiot and the lying rodent are war criminals.
The invasion resulted in the murder of over 100,000 human beings and the systematic destruction and plunder of Iraq. It also provided the catalyst for all of the now never-ending chaos that has engulfed the Middle East, Libya and Afghanistan. It was also the catalyst for the Orwellian double-speak never-ending war against terror and the rapid emergence of the 24/7 global surveillance industry.

Meanwhile the lying rodent has never ever expressed any public regret or remorse for any of the murder and mayhem that he helped create.

This site describes the "collateral damage" that the dreadfully sane lying rodent helped to create http://erasingiraq.com

I agree with Daffy Duck. There is ample scientific evidence that 911 was an inside Govt job. http://www.ae911truth.org/ Concrete ,steel reinforced buildings are not compromised by fire and cannot fall at near free fall speeds due to gravity unless carefully placed explosives are used.

The wars on Afghanistan, Iraq and many other countries were illegal and Hicks was tortured into admissions of guilt when in fact the guilty were his accusers.

The left's new pin up boy - a former Islamic fundamentalist that desired to take over parts of India and kill Indians.Yes, I am talking about his association with Lashkar-e-Taiba.

Probably nothing sums up the failure of the current left than its championing of clowns who hate the West.

It's ironic. Hicks hated the West but then uses Western technical legalities to avoid charges.

The problem here is not so much Hicks, as these clowns always exist, the problem is the left who try to turn the most stupid acts into virtues.

What nobody here seems to get (because they are bogged down in legal technicalities) is that Hicks was an enemy combatant (the US said he was also "illegal"). All of the hi-falutin words here can't seem to bring themselves to a conclusion as to what we should do with illegal enemy combatants.

Legal enemy combatants (i.e. soldiers under the command of a nation) are not charged with anything when captured (unless they have committed war crimes) in war time. We don't whip together a tribunal and try them for shooting at us - we expect them to shoot at us. And once captured, we are obliged to do certain things with them as prisoners of war, including keeping them as prisoners until hostilities have finished.

Hicks wasn't entitled to the status of PoW. As a combatant, we were entitled to kill or capture him until the point he surrenders. What do we do then? Who does he belong to? In WWII, such combatants were simply shot. Trials? Never heard the word. Civilians engaging in battle were shot.

What is certain is that Hicks was legally detained (as a combatant he was removed from the battle), and should still be under the rules of war until the war has ceased. No charge is necessary. And as the war will never cease, he should never have been released.

The whole thing needs to be sorted out in a further development of the rules of war/ Geneva protocols etc to deal with irregular combatants.

And the bleeding hearts can just cry, cry cry.

Valley Guy,

"....aid person because they committed no crime ! Do we arrest every soldier because they have been training to commit murder ?"

Murder is the illegal killing of a fellow human being, soldiers train to kill legally; I know because I was trained to kill, but only legally, and studied Military Law at some length; promotion does not come in the Australian Army (and many others) without a sound knowledge of said law(s), the higher the promotion the more knowledge needed.

Well said Aristocrat

The loony left who troll this forum support anyone who hates the West:

So these trolls are Putin lovers, 911 "Truth" supporters and excuse an official graduate of an al Qaeda terrorist training camp.

If he repeated his acts today he would be very probably be locked up under Australia's Terrorism Laws.

How many genuinely disabled people will be denied pensions to pay for his million dollar medical compensation demands which may well cross-subsidise his lawyers' large, previously "pro bono" fees?

as I said in a previous post he can be the member for a western Sydney seat. He would fit in well with other criminals that the left make heroes of.

Three steel towers disappear into their own footprints at free fall speed. Apparently hit by two planes 3 buildings cave in with out demolition explosives. Of hundreds of cameras around the pentagon not a single bit of film can be produced which shows a plane hitting the building.

so maybe Osama' s had someone prepare explosives in the towers and the USA government was too embarrassed to fess up. But it's hardly credible that Osama arranged for one of his goons to hijack a military plane and fire a rocket into the pentagon. Well maybe he did. Amazing dude that Osama.

As for Hicks?
I remember Bush saying these extremists hate our freedoms and we will not permit them to destroy our freedoms.
Well torturing hicks is surrendering those freedoms
Bush and Howard are therefore also traitors.

" Of hundreds of cameras around the pentagon not a single bit of film can be produced which shows a plane hitting the building."
YEBIGA

About 30 seconds of browsing provided me with many videos, including:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzFqXbfv_yg

So how does a conspiracy theorist deal with information that contradicts their theory?
Option 1. Attack the information as "fabricated" or insufficient to explain the entire complex web of their belief
Option 2. Simply ignore the information, leaving out this one claim, but clinging to all the other "facts" that supposedly support their belief.
Option 3. Critically evaluate the theory in light of the insurmountable amount of contradicting evidence (Just kidding!)

It's not our legal system that produced this stuff up.

Without question Hicks was an illegal enemy combatant, and without a leg to stand on to say otherwise!

Yes he spent six years in a hell hole, that gave him regular exercise and three squares a day! And a right to confer with legal counsel!

I'd like to see how he'd fared on the Burma railway. Where water boarding would have been seen as light refreshment and a break from the cruel workload!

Personally I think he got off light, and from my perspective ought to remain a person of interest as long as his proverbial points at the ground.

Let's not forget he pleaded guilty as charged, as part of a plea bargain that got him some time off.

For mine illegal enemy combatants, traitors and quislings should share just one fate, or statute 303, that Breaker Merrant was so fond of quoting during the Boer campaign!

And eventually became a recipient of it!

And technically all the justice an illegal enemy combatant deserves.

The US finding didn't make him innocent, just that he wasn't properly processed according to their highly convoluted system!

A picture is worth a thousand words, and those thousand words describe a man who is guilty as charged M'Lord!
Rhrosty.

Dear RObert.

US President Franklin Delano Roosevelt operated very much outside of the law when he violated the Neutrality Act, ignored Congress, and gave military equipment to Britain. Had he not done so, Britain would have lost WW2. Interestingly, the US had it's own 1940 version of Edward Snowden, a cypher clerk named Tyler Kent, who released secret telegrams to the press showing how Roosevelt was breaking US law. Kent admired Nazi Germany and he wanted to keep the USA out of the war.

The USA's sainted President Abraham Lincoln operated very much outside the law when he refused to recognise the Confederacy's Constitutional right to withdraw from the Union. He abolished the habeas corpus and jailed critics who opposed his intent to keep the Union intact at all costs. He declared "more scoundrels than honest men have been inconvenienced by habeas corpus." When his own Attorney General objected, Lincoln threatened to jail him. Had Lincoln not violated the US Constitution, what we call the USA would have become two separate states with human slavery probably surviving in the South well into the 20th Century. The South may even have become an ally of Nazi Germany which would have completely changed history, with Nazi Germany being totally in control of all of Europe, and with dire consequences for Australia in the Pacific War.

Grow a brain.

The civilisation in which you choose to live is now for the third time in 100 years at war with an ideology which seeks it's total destruction. And all you can do is to support your civilisations enemies who want destroy everything you believe in, because you think that opposing the status quo is what rooly intelligent young social progressives habitually do. It is a fashion choice. A act of personnel vanity. You support your own people's enemies just to preen your own self image.

David Hicks is a traitor just like Philby, Burgess, Mclean, and Blunt, and because of the distorting view of your perverted and fashionable ideology, you and Foxy can only see him as a poor victim of the USA

Stezza stezza stezza
I was so excited, I thought great I can give up my beliefs about 9/11
For here would be proof of a plane hitting the pentagon

Your link didn't work
But I patiently copied it on my iPad
And then I watched the video on you tube of a military rocket hitting the pentagon
Poor stezza
Anyone remotely interested in the subject of 9/11 has seen that pathetic excuse for evidence a 100 times
There is a car, a boom gate, and a building and no plane
Of the hundreds of cameras on the building and in the vicinity that was the video released
It should alone be enough for you to join the dark side
2000 architects and engineers, 1000s of pilots, numerous high level officials
Molten steel
But if Foxnews, channel 9 and there like don't say its so then it ain't so

Lego
I think your trying to be sincere and smart
Fashionable eeh?
Political correctness maybe fashionable, intellectuals love to stump dumber folk with their moral superiority.
Recognizing that your countries entire foreign policy is a complete fraud is not
And never has been and particularly in times where basic civil right become compromised
Those traitors you cited Philby had power and operated in secret
We are in a public forum
You have been betrayed as we all have by a long line of weak Lilly livered egos - our politicians
Are you able to doubt the veracity of a single news item given to you on your tv
You have now doubt Jesus resurrected from the dead and that Santa delivers you a present every Xmas
That is such a nice matrix to live in - wish I could be there with you- sadly I took the red pill.

Rhrosty
We invaded a 3 world country with 1st world hardware and training
There were no enemy combatants
Alqueida was a CIA sponsored organisation
We went to Afghanistan to save the heroin production and trade
The Taliban even offered to give up Osama if the USA could provide any evidence of his involvement with 9/11
Then we invade Iraq because they had oil oooops sorry they had WMDs oops Sadam was a bad guy
We destroyed two countries displaced 10 million from their homes, killed a million foreigners and introduced torture as a method of recreation for our troops

In the interim we Bomber yehmen, Libya and who the hell knows where else

Now what exactly did hicks do?

Did you know john Howard is being charged as we speak for war crimes at the international criminal court? That won't be reported on channel 9
Don't worry it's in absentia he will be fine

LEGO
"Grow a brain."
"David Hicks is a traitor just like Philby, Burgess, Mclean, and Blunt, and because of the distorting view of your perverted and fashionable ideology, you and Foxy can only see him as a poor victim of the USA"

If you had actually comprehended my post then you might have noticed my pointing out that I don't think Hicks deserves sympathy.

There is a big difference between an interest in ensuring the powers that be don't use the war on terror as an excuse to seize more and more power with real potential to impact on those who are not terrorists and having sympathy for those who chose to fight on the side of evil. Not that hard to understand really.

Perhaps you should take your own advice.

R0bert

Obviously what we need is some nice sharp scimitars, so we can dispatch our enemies in the way they want to dispatch us.

YEBIGA "Did you know john Howard is being charged as we speak for war crimes at the international criminal court?"
Do you have a link to show where John Howard is being charged?

I found material about a complaint being lodged with the ICC in so called "Independent media", but nothing on the ICC site about it that I've been able to find.

http://www.icc-cpi.int/EN_Menus/icc/Pages/default.aspx

What was the source for the claim that John Howard is being charged at the ICC?

R0bert

YEBIGA: It is said the art of propaganda is to tell a lie so enormous people will believe nobody would tell such a monstrous lie; and so believe it!

When it comes right down to it, you make someone as expert as Herr Goebbels look like your student; and you his master!

What's next? A claim that Hicks never left these shores? That he was misrepresented by a doppelganger in those damming pictures/photographs?

Trouble with your defense of Hicks is those damming evidential pictures!

And whether you like it or not, an untouched unedited picture (intended as propaganda by the Taliban) is still worth a thousand words!

And I disagree the west attacked a third world country, when in fact it was a stone age community, that even tried to ban music (food for the soul) and impossible to refute video broadcasts, for heavens sake!

As I said, a picture is worth a thousand words!

And don't we need to shine the light of truth into some of those dark and evil corners, sometimes referred to as fundamental Islam; or what passes for justice in some of them?

Yeah sure The US is not perfect, but if I had just two choices; the US (Christian) or the Egyptian (Muslim) justice system, I know which I'd prefer!
Rhrosty.

To Yebiga

I would really like to thank you and the people who think like you (eg Arjay) for bringing me to my senses.

As a former trendy lefty who aspired to be considered part of the educated elites who knew everything, could I say that what completely changed my mind about the left wing worldview, was listening to and reading wackos like yourself with your fantastic conspiracy theories.

The US created Al Qaida?
The US stage managed 9/11?
The Pentagon was hit by a US missile?

Yeah, sure mate. You can't push that sort of crap on people with brains. My advice to you, is to tone it down a bit. Enthusiastically advocating premises which everybody knows is loony tune stuff will not do your cause any good. Educated people can be very naive, but they are rarely outright stupid. So pushing forth propaganda which even a 12 year old would look askance at you for is doing nothing more than aiding your opponents. Perhaps I am giving too much away?

Hang on, I take it all back.

I think that Arjay and yourself are doing a fantastic service to your country by displaying to every impartial reader just how weird the people with your mindsets really are. Please keep it up.

The problem is Lego that even conservative Governments have funded the left wing loony academics thinking that somehow it is harmless and they would keep their grubby little theories to themselves. They also fund the abc/sbs who are full of fools who subscribes to the idiotic conspiracy garbage and try and make it mainstream. That is why now the West is blamed for the death cult of Islam. It is however a bedfellow to feminism/secularism.

Runner, you wouldn't know a left wing loony academic if you fell over one in your rush to run away from whatever the latest thing that scares you stupid might be.

I'll bet you're one of those brave souls who hides behind the pews whenever pastor asks for help with the latest fundraiser and always makes sure he has lots of 10c pieces to toss into the plate.

Another whiny, whinging loudmouth without the intestinal fortitude to even use your own name to stand behind the nasty hate-filled bilge you pump out.

A fine example of how not to act.

For the benefit of Joe: my apologies for using your handle in that tirade directed at runner, it was unintentional and in no way directed at you.

Unless you'd like to endorse runner's views, in which case, as you were.

Dear Craig,

Runner is not going to be phased by any of our
remarks. After all he's convinced that "Jesus
loves him" (while - most of us "think he's an ...."
well you know the rest). ;-)

I don't give a toss whether he's fazed or not, Foxy, I want him to know that he is contemptible by his own standards. What he chooses to do about that is a matter for his own ragged conscience.

surprised you even believe in a conscience Craig. Well there goes the moral relativism myth.

The same military machine who convicted Hicks, now finds him innocent. The Military have no axe to grind in terms of political allegiances or which Central Banker destroys our economies via money printing. The Pentagon now truly represent the people of the USA and are now not in alignment with George Bush's New World Order of Global Governance.

David Hicks has been found innocent by his most hardened opponents and all the obfuscation by our New World Order fascists will not change this reality.

I was wrong, runner. You're contemptible by any standard.

Craig with the vomit you spit out I am very pleased not to have your endorsement. At least Foxy tries to hide her hatred (albiet not very well).

Dear runner,

There's enough hatred in the world without
any of us having to add to it.

This story is just like the Lindy Chamberland case of trial/conviction by the media and public without any evidence.We have a plethora of armchair experts who believe the media lies.
http://thejusticecampaign.org/?page_id=14

Now let's see.

Arjay and Yebiga are obviously loony tunes. Craig Minns can't do anything but scream abuse. That only leaves Foxy as the one trendy to post an almost intelligent reply on this topic.

OK Foxy, taking your points in order.

Amnesty International's opinion that David Hicks was illegally imprisoned is worthless, because every sane person (you and your peer group excluded) knows that enemy fighters captured on a battlefield can be detained as long as hostilities persist.

Anthony Loewenstein's opinion is wrong for the same reason.

Miranda Divine was entirely correct to point out that people who put bombs in commercial airliners, bomb nightclubs full of Aussies, shoot schoolgirls for daring to go to school, rape little girl schoolgirls in Beslan before massacring them, abduct and rape hundreds of schoolgirls in Nigeria, behead on Yutube journalists and aid workers for publicity, and enslave captured Christian women, advertise them for sale, and mass rape them, hardly deserve any decent treatment themselves when captured.

Miranda Divine is self evidently correct in calling David Hicks "a well trained terrorist." He wasn't in Afghanistan to admire the Babiyan Buddhas. Don't ask me why he wasn't charged with treason and executed.

Loewenstein and the US chief Military Prosecutor are obviously wrong when they said that Hick's detention was to save the Howard government embarrassment. Your premise suggests that most Australians regarded Hick's jailing with horror. Maybe within your own peculiar peer group it did. But amongst normal people we were glad that terrorist Hicks was incarcerated and hoped that the yanks kicked the shiit out of him.

To believe 9/11 occurred as reported requires us to believe the US intelligence and the pentagon defense system operatives are akin to the bumbling agents on the 1960s TV series Get Smart.

But this al quiada mob has shown themselves to be anything but intelligent in executing 9/11 and the 14 years since

A complex modern society like ours requires everyone to behave within certain civil parameters to function - this is why it's called civilisation. Every thing is finely tuned to operate efficiently: electricity grids, water gas grids, public transport grids, schools,hospitals , sporting venues....the entire system of supply and delivery is so complex and so fragile that it requires minimal force at strategic weak points to stop life as we know it. Consider the impact of a major road suddenly closed during peak hour
The disruption and frustration it causes

A truly smart, funded entity determined to destroy "our way of life" would not bother with hijacking planes, or even getting on a plane, why take the risk of going thru a highly controlled environment when you are free to move thru the inside of entire country. Why bother with guns when you just look like a nut and will end up dead. Mere hi jinx pranks would increase the cost of operating our economy so much that our way of life would immediately change.

This is why I believe this entire war on terror is a tragic charade. An invisible and incompetent enemy, allowing it's authors to create intermittent events which threaten nothing serious but permit the authors to manipulate the western public to whatever end they choose - namely bombing and looting another country. USA Fukyeah.

Dear LEGO,

Prime Minister John Howard, Attorney General
Philip Ruddock and Foreign Affairs Minster Downer were
warned by a panel of experts from Australia that the
David Hicks case should not have been allowed to proceed.

David Hicks did not fight against Australian or US troops.
There were no Coalition
forces on the ground in Kunduz at the time David Hicks
was there. David Hicks did not fire one shot outside of
military training in Afghanistan - this was acknowledged by
the US. David Hicks did not at any point engage foreign
soldiers in combat. David Hicks was not caught fighting
with al-Qaeda. He was taken at a taxi stand whilst trying
to come back home to Australia by the Northern Alliance
(Afghan forces). He was sold to the US Military for approx.
US $1,000.

The infamous photographs of David taken with an unloaded RPG
were taken in Albania when he was training with the Kosovo
Liberation Army under NATO. Even in the American created
charges - there has never been an allegation that David
Hicks engaged in a violent act against any person.
There has never been any evidence to the contrary.

David Hicks did not receive any "terrorist training."
In fact several independent sources,
including members of the Australian military, have
confirmed that the training David Hicks received was basic
standard military training, poor in quality to that
received by our Australian troops.

David Hicks spent nearly six years in Guantanamo where he
was tortured and abused. His treatment by our Government and
at the hands of the US was not justified. In 2007 former PM
John Howard asked the US to manage the Hicks case.
Colonel Morris Davis, the former Chief Prosecutor of Military
Commissions told US Journalist Jason Leopold in 2011 that he
had concerns about the Bush Administration charging Hicks.

There was "no doubt in my mind," Davis added that "this issue
was an accommodation to help Howard by making the David
Hicks case go away (in an election year)." And John Howard
should publicly apologise of selling out an Australian
citizen for political gain.

Well now, there is an admission that Hicks reserved military training n Afghanistan.

That he was Photographed holding an R.P.G.

However, an unloaded R.P.G, just doesn't have the snout of an expended uranium tipped rocket, peeping out of it!

And a single untruth, destroys any credibility, with regard to the rest of the denials!

While there's not published evidence that we're aware of, that he participated in any active operations; however, and using the same inescapable logic, none that he didn't!

I mean, what was the point of a self confessed Bin Laden admirer/devotee, being over there and training with the Taliban?

For mine, he remains an item of interest, for the term of his natural life, with every phone call, text message, letter, email or private conversation monitored.

And where it entirely down to me, his movements would also be monitored by a mandatory ankle bracelet.

Rfrosty,

If you were to Google the photographs of David Hicks
holding the RPG you would also see that Hicks and others
are all wearing
slippers. The photos were apparently
posed for after they got the
unloaded guns out of a storage shed.

As for your referrals to crediblity and untruths?

Well,
I guess the panel of experts from Australia who warned
the Australian government not to go ahead with
the David Hicks case, and the PM, and - Dan Mori, the
American lawyer who represented Mr Hicks while he was in
Guantanamo Bay, and reputable journalists like Antony Loewenstein,
and - Amnesty International, and the Military Commissioners Hearings,
and - Colonel Morris Davis, and the former Chief Prosecutor of
Military Commissions and US journalist Jason Leopold -
are all liars. You're the only one
who knows "the truth."

What are the odds of that being so.

The Pictures of Hicks with the RPG were taken in Albania and not in Afghanistan. See the truth.
http://thejusticecampaign.org/?page_id=14

No mention of all the illegal Zionist inspired illegal invasions of Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya ,Pakistan ,Somalia, Vietnam etc.

LEGO has to be a troll. No one can be this ignorant and still be able to write a sentence.

Fox, "If you were to Google the photographs of David Hicks holding the RPG you would also see that Hicks and others are all wearing slippers"

Had a look and NO they are NOT wearing slippers. Laced joggers and shoes, with one being too lazy to put his on right and is standing on the heel of his joggers

otb,

Go back and read the link given by Arjay.
One of the men is wearing slippers.

Fox,

So now you admit at least two have lace up shoes?

The third is wearing leather/leatherette loafers and there could be a logo on the side.

otb,

What's your point?

David Hicks has never been accused of hurting anyone,
participating in, supporting, preparing for or
knowing about the preparation of a terrorist act.
Even in the American created charges - there has
never been an allegation that David Hicks engaged in a
violent act against any person. There has never been any
evidence to the contrary. It has never been proven that
David Hicks undertook terrorist training. David Hicks did
not fight against Australian or US troops. There were
no Coalition forces on the ground in Kunduz at the time
David Hicks was there. David Hicks did not fire one shot
outside of military training in Afghanistan - this was
acknowledged by the United States. David Hicks did not
at any point engage foreign soldiers in combat.

No more needs to be said.

Arjay - you are right.

We can’t take any notice of mainstream press because it is all controlled by the sinister Zionists and their cohorts, including the useful idiots. Political correctness was created by the Jewish Communists and its all been a long term plan over centuries to dominate the world. Now we have talk of Globalisation/New World Order, don't we?

Masters of Deception. Why are all the sane people fed up with DO GOODERS who continually support the perpetrators and scant respect for the victims?

Murdoch has Jewish roots through his mother.

NEW WORLD ORDER Timeline
http://tomatobubble.com/fh1.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Robison_(physicist)

Mossad created Al Qaeda and all the other Islamists in order to disguise the Zionists. I know there have been many US presidents with Jewish ancestory (who have Anglicised their names) following the orders of the Elders of Zion in order to cause kaos and division in the West in order for world domination through mass confusion. Hence, you have George Bush (who is one) in order under the guise to spread democracy, hence invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan. Even Obama is quarter Jewish. Are not Americans now afraid of his Socialist agenda. I have oodles of info and there is a very clear pattern over centuries.

Mossad & the Zionist cohorts (likely to include Bush) did 9/11, and killed the Kennedys as they were trying to break the power in the Federal Reserve run by Jews and stop Israel from going nuclear and the Jews didn’t like Robert investigating the Mafia (forget the Italians, the bigger mafia were Zionists). Just like the Russian mafia are Zionists. Is it just a coincidence that the guy who filmed John Kennedy’s assassination a Jew? And that the Dancing Israelies escaped the US with the help of a Jewish lawyer after 9/11. Frank Lowy (ex Israeli commando) , the king of the ugly Westfields was also involved as he was in partnership with another Zionist who took ownership of the Twin Towers a month before it collapsed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cynthia_McKinney
https://mastersofdeception.wordpress.com/

Cont....

Correction, the Islamists are real as they are also a suicidal Death Cult. Both are Semetic. The Zionists Jews are born revolutionaries and agitators.

As for their apologists, a combination of a few things including Stockholm Syndrome and Communist brainwashing. Then there is Oslo Syndrome which describes Israelies. Why are increasing mental health issues alerts been occurring.

Marxist academics have plagued our universities spreading their propaganda against Western Civilisation. Karl Marx was a Jew.

The ILLUMINATI/Zionists/Freemasons are all connected (secret societies). Divide and Conquer and destroy Western Civilisation and its Christian roots. They have infiltrated the Vatican. PLEASE READ MY PREVIOUS POSTS. I have only gotten on to this in recent months. We must take action in order to save ourselves. I never would have imagined or believed it myself. Just about all the wars in history have been caused by Zionists and co. Look at HISTORY. The more I look, the more dirt I find on them. It is unbelievable, but true. The facts are there.

Don’t you think there would have had to be valid reasons for expulsions of minorities such as Muslims and Jews in Medieval Europe? Why would they if they did no harm?

I also know that Rupert Murdoch is Jewish from his mother’s side (which is relevant in Judaism). The Dirty Digger who brought pornography and dirty journalism in the media.

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/07/16/murdochs-deeply-hidden-jewish-roots-a-biography/

“Rupert’s father Sir Keith Murdoch attained his prominent position in Australian society through a fortuitous marriage to the daughter of a wealthy Jewish family, née Elisabeth Joy Greene. Through his wife’s connections, Keith Murdoch was subsequently promoted from reporter to chairman of the British-owned newspaper where he worked. There was enough money to buy himself a knighthood of the British realm, two newspapers in Adelaide, South Australia, and a radio station in a faraway mining town,” Candour wrote in 1984. “For some reason, Murdoch has always tried to hide the fact that his pious mother brought him up as a Jew.”

Cont...

Dear Foxy

Approximately 150 "Australian" Muslims are now fighting with ISIS in Syria and Iraq. They are not in direct action against Coalition troops, they are just killing and raping Syrians, Iraqis, Kurds, and Yazidis. Many of them left Australia when it was perfectly legal to do so, and it was perfectly legal for them to engage in fighting before our laws changed and made them all criminals. I suppose you would claim that these mutants should not be prosecuted either, because they are not directly engaging Australian soldiers, and were not in violation of our laws at the time by fighting in their former homelands?

If David Hicks trained with the Wehrmacht, met Adolph Hitler 20 times, made public statements approving of Nazism, then was captured by Canadian troops on D-Day at a taxi stand in Caen while heading for the rear, would you still be performing mental and legal gymnastics trying to think up excuses to defend this traitor?

Does Jane Fonda's new reputation for being one of the USA's ten most notorious traitors, for being photographed in North Vietnam aiming an AA gun at US planes, make you pause and rethink your sympathies? It beats me why you want to be Foxy Fonda.

52 Australian soldiers were killed fighting against David Hick's Al Qaida's mates. If the Northern Alliance, who just happened to be our tacit allies at that time, had not captured him, it is very conceivable that he would have joined the foreign fighters who were fighting against US, NATO, and ANZAC troops. How do you think Australian soldiers would view your support for David Hicks? If you told Aussie Afghanistan veterans that you think that David Hicks was badly treated, they would probably spit all over you.

....Cont

"While Murdoch may have “tried to hide” his Jewish roots, he has been quite forthright about his support for extreme right-wing Zionists, such as Benjamin Netanyahu and Ariel Sharon.

Netanyahu, who wrote a book entitled The War on Terror: How the West Can Win in 1986, is a frequent commentator on Murdoch’s Fox News.

Murdoch’s support for Zionism extremists is well known and a matter of record. As New York Governor George Pataki said, “There is no newspaper in the U.S. more supportive of Israel than the [Murdoch’s] New York Post.”

It is through a network of Zionist organizations, in which Murdoch plays a central role, that Murdoch is connected to the individuals who arranged the privatization – and obtained control of the World Trade Center – shortly before its destruction.
These key individuals are: Larry Silverstein and the former Israeli commando Frank Lowy, the lease holders of dubious repute who gained control of the WTC property six weeks before 9/11, and Port Authority Chairman Lewis M. Eisenberg, who authorized the transfer of the leases.

Murdoch belongs to, and has been honored by, a number of leading Zionist organizations in which Silverstein, Lowy, and Eisenberg all hold senior positions. These organizations include the Anti-Defamation League (ADL), the United Jewish Appeal (UJA), and the New York-based Museum of Jewish Heritage – A Living Memorial to the Holocaust.

Fifty days before 9/11, Silverstein Properties and Lowy’s Westfield America secured 99-year leases on the WTC. The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey turned control of the World Trade Center over to the private hands of Silverstein and Lowy on July 24, 2001.

Silverstein and Lowy then took control of the 10.6 million-square-foot complex, which included the twin towers office buildings and two nine-story office buildings. Silverstein and the former Israeli commando Lowy then controlled all access to the World Trade Center.

Lowy leased the shopping concourse called the Mall at the World Trade Center, which comprised about 427,000 square feet of retail space.

Cont.....

....Cont

“Six weeks before the WTC towers were destroyed, the Port Authority completed the process of leasing them for 99 years to Larry Silverstein, the developer who had built 7 World Trade Center [which mysteriously self-demolished at 5:25 p.m. on 9/11].

“Simultaneously, the retail space underneath the complex was leased to Westfield America, the US division of an Australian company that is one of the world’s largest operators of shopping malls.” Paul Goldberger wrote in New Yorker, May 20, 2002.

“Silverstein and Westfield were given the right to rebuild the structures if they were destroyed, and Westfield has the right to expand the retail space by 30 percent,” Goldberger wrote.

Silverstein is suing for some $7.2 billion in insurance money for the loss of the destroyed World Trade Center – and his expected earnings – for property he had leased with a down payment of $100 million – of borrowed funds.

On September 12, 2001, The Jerusalem Post reported: “Frank Lowy, who emigrated to Australia from Israel in 1952, owns the 99-year lease for the 425,000 square foot retail portion of the destroyed World Trade Center…Westfield said today that it has insurance cover against terrorist attacks and its earnings will not be materially affected.”

Ariel Sharon and Murdoch are old friends. On Oct. 15, 1982, a month after the massacres of thousands of Palestinian refugees in the Sabra and Shatila camps of Beirut, war crimes which occurred under Sharon’s direct command, the Israeli defense minister held meetings with Rupert Murdoch and others, reportedly in order to advance his “West Bank real estate grab.”

From the beginning, News Corp., his global media company, “has been supportive of the Jewish national cause,” Murdoch said."

Constance you are right about the Zionist Cabal of banking imperialism but most Jews have no idea of how they too are being manipulated and screwed by this counterfeiting of our money.

When Bush brought in the Patriot Act and Obama brought in the NDAA + legalised assassination by the CIA, very few knew that fascism was a our door step.

Dear LEGO,

I have no way of knowing what Australian soldiers
would think of my stance regarding the David Hicks
case. Whether they would spit on me as you suggest
or not. I certainly can only hope that as soldiers
they would respect the rule of law and due process.
David Hicks did not fight against Australian or US
troops. He did not engage foreign soldiers in combat.
He did not break any International, American or
Australian laws. And he has now been cleared of the
charges imposed against him.

I trust that soldiers would see the injustice of what
David Hicks was forced to go through.

Foxy, soldiers of today probably would do as you suggest, being well-trained and educated in thinking through problems so as to make good decisions.

Old blowhard pretenders, on the other hand...

Constance,

Steady up there; people might get the idea that you are some sort of Conspiracy nut.

Dear Craig,

The men in uniform that we have known -
were always rather quiet in their commentaries
about the battles they fought or the soldiers
they fought against. Most, simply did not want to
talk about their experiences. They did they job -
and preferred not to discuss things with civilians,
even family members. Perhaps that may have added to the
problem of some of them not being able to adjust
to normal life - but that's another issue.

To Foxy Fonda.

You only have the word of a traitor who was trained by Al Qaida, and was palsy walsy with Osama bin Laden, that he did not fight anybody. But of vourse, you believe him. After all, he is a brave insurgent who has no loyalty to his own country, and that makes him a sexy guy to people like you.

Anything that that little terrorist says must be considered unquestionable. The only people who tell lies are elected western governments in the countries that you and your friends choose to live in.

It is just so cool and hip to display your contempt for your own country. So David is a real celeb. Especially for fighting for the enemy of the hated Americans. Wow,what a guy. I'll bet all of your undergraduate nieces have pictures of David up beside the posters of Che Gueverra, Katy Perry, and Lady Ga Ga on their bedroom walls.

The rule of thumb appears to be, if your country supports it, then the true social progressive must reflexively oppose it. That formula even applies to terrorists like Hicks. You are just not cool if you think otherwise. And you must also display your love and friendship for any enemy of your country, make every excuse for their terrorist behaviour, and always present them as the cruel victims of your own people.

Hi LEGO,
I just checked on Google and while I hate to correct a fightin' man of your...erm...calibre, I've confirmed that the approved form of words is:

"I'll huff and I'll puff and I'll blow your house down".
________________________________________________________________________

SPOILER ALERT for students of military history
________________________________________________________________________

It doesn't end well for the poor old wolf, I'm afraid. Those smartarse little pigs have the cheek to laugh at him while he's huffing and he doesn't have as much puff as he used to did.

Poor old thing ends his days trying to scare little girls and old ladies.

Dear LEGO,

I see you're back to your usual style of posting.
And, here I thought we could actually have an
intelligent discussion.

Ah well, that obviously won't happen while you persist
with your usual litany of sweeping statements,
generalisations, wrong assumptions about people you
don't know and have never met.

Doing what you're doing - now that is really something
that's definitely - not cool!

To Foxy Fonda.

The Taliban and their Al Qaida allies, which included traitors such as the USA's John Walker Lindh, David Hicks, dozens of "British" Al Qaida trained jihadis of mainly Pakistani extraction, officers from Pakistan's intelligence service the ISI, and Pakistan Army special forces, were on a roll and on the verge of complete victory in Afghanistan, when Al Qaida launched it's devastating attack in New York.

With a few weeks, US special forces were parachuted into Northern Afghanistan to provide targeting for B1 bombers operating out of Diego Garcia. The accurate bombing of Taliban and Al Qaida forces by the USA completely routed the enemy. The USA was able to rally the Farsi speaking Northern Alliance forces of Shah Massoud, General Dustrum's Uzbecks, the Tajiks, and the Waziris.

The enemy forces fell back in confusion to Kunduz, hoping to use the town's civilian population as shelter from the devastating US bombing which had completely shredded their ranks. There they were completely surrounded by Northern Alliance forces which included US special forces troops. Australia was officially an ally of the USA at that time.

The yanks wanted the Northern Alliance to go into Kunduz and completely exterminate the enemy forces which included Hicks and Lindt, and the Northern Alliance were happy to comply. But the attack was called off because the northern tribal leaders had appealed to the USA to spare the town and it's civilian population. In addition, Pakistan's President Musharref had appealed to the USA to allow the enemy forces to surrender because he did not want thousands of Pakistani Army soldiers massacred.

That official surrender, which bagged the traitors Hicks and Lindt, was formally arranged and signed in a Mazir-i-Sharif compound with Mullah Fazul representing the enemy forces, and the Northern Alliance forces represented by General Dustrum and CIA agents.

Go to Dymocks and pick any book on the Afghan war, preferably one written by soldiers, or at least journalist who were there, instead of reading The Green Left Weekly. When you figure out that you are being lied to, you might begin thinking straight.

Hicks is a self avowed traitor by common understanding. Only the "Caring Classes tm" would take self evident legalistic drivel and sanctify someone highly trained in murdering and in terrorist tactics such as Slavery, Rape and Despair. I guess the Lawyers earn enough for a holiday in Bali.

Dear LEGO,

You appear to be more interested in condemnation
and punishment than in explanation. To you explanations
seem tantamount to sympathizing and excusing. And this
has lead to the questionable practice of stereotyping
people - myself included. I am not interested in any further
dialogue with you because mud-slinging and counter-stereotyping
is not my style or something I like to engage in.

I'm sure you'll find plenty of kindred spirits to talk to
on this forum. I'm no longer one of them.

Cheers.

Lego

Its a pity your commonsense could not be aired on mainstream media. Foxy's views are always very predictable and she spits the dummy when exposed. Kind of like the abc/sbs with its Greens border policy.

WWJD, runner?

WWJD, runner?

certainly use His brain Craig. I suspect He would of wept over hundreds or thousands of drownings and rebuked the stupidity that led to them.

To Foxy Fonda.

I must say that it is difficult reasoning with people who have no brains.

I mean, David Hicks trained with Al Qaida and was captured when Kunduz was surrounded by forces allied to the USA and Australia. Now, it seems to me that anybody with a skerrick of common sense would conclude that

1.If you train with Al Qaida, know Osama bin Laden, and got caught on a battlefield with a surrounded Muslim terrorist army, than you are definitely a Muslim terrorist.

2. Muslim terrorists are not nice people.

3. Muslim terrorists have no credibility.

4. Hicks is a God damned traitor.

5. Muslim terrorists want to stick Foxy Fonda in a burkha, shoot her in the face if she wants an education, think that she should should be sold like a slave into marriage, do not think that Foxy has any right to deny her husband sex, want to keep Foxy in the kitchen where she is not allowed to even go out of the house without her husband's permission, and think that Foxy should be beaten by her husband with a big stick if she gets uppity.

Therefore, it seems to me that it would be logical for Foxy Fonda to be totally hostile to Hicks and his terrorist friends. But rather incredibly, Foxy thinks that Hicks was just a victim of circumstance, who just happened to be doing a bit of training with Al Qaida for a bit of fun. And he was just standing innocently in front of a taxi stand in surrounded Kunduz in his luau shirt, surfboard, and thongs when those Northern Alliance meanies grabbed the poor innocent sod and sold him to the Americans.

Your logic can only be described as "breathtaking stupidity."

Keep huffing and puffing, old fella.

When Hicks was captured by the Northern Alliance, a legitimate outcome would have been to execute him on the field. Legally, the alternative was to intern him for the duration of the war.

If the war has ended, as Obama alleges it has, then he is entitled to be released.

There was nothing in our laws, at that time, which would enable him to be dealt with as a criminal. It is ridiculous to claim that he is innocent, but technically there was no basis in our deficient criminal law upon which he could be brought to justice. He should be grateful for our flawed legal system, which allows a miscreant like him to go unpunished.

Sheesh and you lot complain about the ISIS mob...