What sort of higher education system does Australia need?
Definitely not the Christopher Pyne user pays model!
But perhaps the inherently fair Gough Whitlem model? And in vogue when Minister Pyne was learning law?
Pity a course in fair-minded think wasn't also mandatory for all intending law graduates! Even ones able to argue the leg off of a wooden chair; or that white is really black!
And only ever true in the complete absence of light!

Genuinely fair-minded thinking, would require a complete change in rationale/mindset, and finally ending all tax avoidance!
With all tax avoidance a thing of the past, there'll be more than adequate funds to achieve that purpose?

The only change that might be applicable, is a means test on it? I mean, let's make sure no inherently disadvantaged Australian is left behind, before we start making room for fee paying foreigners!

Rather than focus on pyned for privilege and profit, which seems to be the main focus of the ideologically driven, we should instead focus on excellence, and our best and brightest; plus our better ideas and best people! And much more R+D!

And essential in a world, where the inmates seem to have taken over the asylum?
And or, bound and determined to shoot themselves in their own economic feet?

Moreover, if we no longer needed to fund state parliaments, (kindy for pollies) we could unchain an additional 70 billions per, some of which would completely make up the current shortfall in higher ed funding; as well as much of the current infrastructure deficit!

And very doable without the loss of so much as a single service!
The only thing preventing just that very outcome, have to be self serving state pollies; and or, those who advise them!?

State governments are almost as essential as boiling water in a chocolate teapot!
Rhrosty.

Yeah, give em hell Don.

What you say about state governments does not make sense.
Are you saying rip 70 billion away from states. Surely the govt; can't be costing 70 billion.

For once I can't agree with you Don. I think the university sector needs not just hands on, but a damn good shaking.

For far too long university executives have been in empire building mode, & they are totally overblown. A sign of this was grasping nurse education. We now have a staff shortage once filled by trainee nurses, & a bunch of over opinionated nurses who think many nurse jobs are beneath them. Many are incompetent at the required task, when on a ward.

We also have far too many soft degrees designed simply as a qualification for bureaucracy admission. Add the host of courses producing social workers of some description from psychiatrists to councillors, who require additional welfare cases to fill their case book, & I think a great deal of change is required. We could do without the extra social workers, & the welfare cases they promote & precipitate.

There is far too much lack of effort at many levels. A friends son left a science course after 8 months, after trying to contact a math tutor for 6 weeks. Evidently returning calls is too much to ask of some staff. Slack tutors cost this kid his education, but you can bet we are still paying them. The student decided it was not worth racking up more hex debt, when he was not getting what he was paying for. A shake up is long over due.

Only ignorant people like the actress speaking at Goughs funeral really believe education is free. She obviously does not know that lecturers, administrators, cleaners etc get paid. They are not volunteers.

Gee Hasbeen, I didn't know you were so knowledgable about Universities and modern day nurse's training?
You do surprise me!

More likely you have been listening to dear old retired nurses who, while no doubt good in their day, are somewhat like you. They like living in the past too....

I am assuming then that you never avail yourself of the services of university trained health professionals such as Doctors, physio's, dentist's and podiatrists?

Be thankful for University educations that give us one of the best health care systems in the world.

As higher education gets more and more expensive, I can see some very good minds being left behind because they can't afford to go to university.

runner, only ignorant people like you believe that only things with zero provision cost can be free. Do you think free newspapers don't have paid staff?

Yes 579, that's exactly what I'm saying, and before so much as a single service is rolled out, we taxpayers part with 70 billions PA+, just for the privilege of employing people, like he who must be Obied!

Why, most services could be provided as a direct funding model and supported by much more regional/local autonomy; and that model would cost we taxpayers around 30% less than the current money go round!

If for example we returned to Great Depression expediency, and had much of the service model admin provided by unpaid regional volunteer boards; made up of recently retired [bored silly,] professionals?
We really could get much smaller government across the board.
And costly ignorance would be replaced by concise local knowledge, and consequent, far better directed much bigger bang for the buck, funding!

We with just one notable exception, are the most over-governed nation on earth, and are paying for it every which way, not the least of which is endlessly deferred development and infrastructure; which then costs the taxpayer double, due to the inevitable delays!

So the 70 billions per, is just maintenance, lunch/wine/cigars, cars/taxis, ministers' and staff salaries, rather than the other things like public health, education and emergency services that also cost additional tens of billions!
i.e., Roads that just lead to bottlenecks or nowhere, and tram and rail tracks ripped up, when what was really needed was some realignment and vast modernization!

Ask any city Mayor, and he/she will tell you; that the biggest wasters of public money are state governments; coupled to the different objectives of the ideologically driven/learner pollies that man them!

If management teaches just one thing, it teaches us that there is always a better way!
Rhrosty.

States should get all of their own GST collected in that state. The federal spending is racking up debt at unprecedented levels. That is where black holes are formed.
Why should the federal be telling the states where they want money spent. Like the recent tunnel in vic. Abbot wanted it not Victoria. That was purely political, and badly thought out. Abbott made the vote into a vic referendum for his tunnel.
State govt; are best at knowing what is best for their state.
Federal wants the states to sell everything and pass all moneys to federal, so Abbott can make himself look like he is doing something.
The level of competency in federal politics is not there to have one centralized govt;.
Unemployment is the worst for 12 years. That is what federal should be focused on, not where they can spend more billions, on roads the state does not want.
Vic has gone labor, QLD will be next. One sure way of federal becoming unstuck is to keep going the way they are now.

Well thank you miss know it all Suse.

My recent experience with university trained nurses is when the weekend worriers at a major Queensland public hospital didn't bother giving my bedridden mother any food or water for 36 hours. They were too damn busy talking at the nurse station to check their patients, or do the job the tax payers were paying them very handsomely to do.

They had put food & water on the table, too far away for her to reach.

I am quite surprised you didn't hear about it there, my shouting was loud enough. Loud enough to bring the hospital general manager in from home, to try to reduce the coming complaint.

From my experience we would be lucky to have more than 40% of our current nurses of any more use than the cleaners.

The last experience was when we had to carry my lady in with a gallstone attack. I was not impressed at the two & a half we had waited for her to get any pain relief, which she only got when I started getting noisy again.

Nurses, I wouldn't feed most of them.

Well if the states got all their GST; which by the way they do!
They would still be in a 20 billion dollar black hole before so much as a single state funded service was rolled out!

Each and every state minister costs the tax payer over a million P.A, just so he or she can polish leather and endlessly argue about where scarce funds should be eternally wasted/pork barreled!

And why do we the people need to find around 35 billions per year, just to pay for noisy or road block oppositions; but particularly with regard to the divergence of very robust opinion in party rooms!

And do we really need all those extremely expensive rubber stamp back benchers, who in all likelihood, will have to be carried by the public purse for life!?

Why not look at the vastly superior American model, where a single governor is elected for four years, in a winner takes all election.
And yes we the people should pay for those very elections, in order to prevent incalculable wealth from simply buying power and or influence.

With a single governor elected, he or she can then gather an extremely competent team around them (around 12 people) to take care of those things not able to be delegated to regional boards and or councils.

And investigative journalism vastly more effective in keeping the bar stewards honest; than lack lustre/in there as well/do nothing oppositions!?

And councils need to be wound back and become mostly unpaid volunteers working for their own communities, and earn most of their revenue from paid for service, like say, reticulated water and electricity/garbage collection!

Or failing that, replaced by a single state government appointed administrator!

I can recall an occasion where just such an appointee, got through more actual work in just 12 weeks, than three years of gridlocked Gold Coast council!

And from where all current or former real estate agents and developers; their wives, partners and family members should be forever completely barred/banned!
Rhrosty.

Nurses shouldn't be asked to do things for patients, that patients can still do for themselves, and heal quicker/avoid stoke or heart attack creating blood clots for having been forced off of their important portly backsides to do it, even if they are VIPs!

Or even the mothers of former rogue employers, belligerent bellicose bully boys, who would treat nurses as their personal slaves, if they could but get away with it!

Had it been completely down to me, security would have been called, the un-elected emperor of the world subdued with an injection, and then allowed to wake up in a psyche ward strapped up nice and tight in a straight jacket, until he learned some respect and manners; and indeed, learned to say please for every morsel of care tendered.

Nurses are health professionals, not servants or slaves!

And why shouldn't they chat in the nurses station if that is on their own time/roistered meal breaks, or at end of shift, where the incoming shift needs to be updated, with (absolutely essential information) the care requirements/medication needs of the current patient workload.

I grew up in very poor circumstances Has, and even at the lowest periods, I was taught that common courtesy and civility costs nothing.

How dare you attack often exhausted nurses the way you boast about!

Bet you they got your name and number, and will look out for you in the future to render the sort of service you so richly deserve!
Little wonder you now fear having to rely on their tender mercies, at end of days!
Rhrosty.

I have to agree with the premise that nursing care standards have dropped since the introduction of university degrees for nurses. I was a nurse for 30 years, I only retired 4 years ago, so I have some experience in this field.
And yes, I was one of the "old" nurses trained under the hospital system, but the relevant word here is "trained". We were taught that the comfort, hygiene and medical support for the patient was paramount. We knew that any job, however repugnant, was part of that care, if it related to the health of the patient. We didn't have to worry about demarcation issues because all staff worked together for the benefit of the sick. Nurses, cleaners, doctors, clerical staff. I saw doctors change dirty nappies, nurses mop vomit off floors, cleaners help a patient with a meal. There was none of this "not my job" attitude that prevails today.
And yes, nursing care standards have well and truly dropped. I have witnessed this first hand with sick members of my family and myself. Lack of support for simple things like bathing and eating and mobility. Even worse is the lack of attention to patient hygiene, which is probably a contributing cause to the worrying spread of the so called superbugs in the system.
Add to this the problem of university graduate nurses who are totally unprepared for the realities of shift work, and hands on nursing, as opposed to theoretical nursing and it is easy to see that the shift to university training was a retrograde step. Graduate nurses could still have been given a degree, much of our training was theory, and we wouldn't have the staff shortages or reduced standard of care we now have to suffer.

Hasbeen, if you were there watching what happened with your mother for 36 hours in that hospital, which you must have done to make such a statement, then why the hell didn't you feed your mother?
As for your lady with the gallstones, how do you know the medical staff weren't busy with real emergencies? You don't....

Like Rhosty said, you sound like the many bully relatives I have come across in 30 years of nursing, but the difference is I would have called security and have you thrown out with all the other bad dummy-spitting boys!

Big Nana, I am also a hospital trained RN, but I am still working full time.
There are good and bad nurses of any training background, just as there are in all jobs.
I would suggest that many more people complain about tradies and mechanics than ever do about nurses.

Most University trained nurses are very good once they have been on the wards for some real experience. I agree they should probably spend more time on the wards before they graduate, but I also felt we didn't have enough classroom time during my training.

Rhrosty thanks for proving once & for all you are an idiot.

Suse I'm surprised at you.

I walked into a ward where my mother, 98 at the time, who had been sitting up & asking for a hand mirror & hair brush 36 hours before, was incoherent & dehydrated. Looking like a prune.

I had not liked her being in a single room, but she did not mind.

There were 3 meals & 5 of the containers of the thickened water she was required to drink, still sealed, sitting on the bed table, out of her reach, as she could not get out of the bed.

When a nurse came in, I asked if she was there to feed her, & without a word the nurse left very quickly, almost running.

I went straight to the office & demanded to see the duty manager. He was not available I was told, but appeared very quickly when I started shouting about legal action. I hope it is OK to shout at office staff Rhrosty.

It is amazing how the loud threat of legal action, in front of a gathering crowd, & the thought of black marks against their career prospects can galvanise bureaucrats into action.

We got back to the ward where someone was starting to remove the evidence of their guilt. To his credit the manager was horrified.

I don't believe this would ever have happened if she had been in a ward, where it would have been harder to ignore her.

If you would have done less than this in the same position Rhrosty, you are a waste of space.

My mother who was there only because of bleeding piles, was never able to stand again.

Nurses were once really great, but too many of the current crop, particularly those who specialise in high paying weekend shifts, are not worth feeding.

Hasbeen, Rhosty is no idiot. He was merely giving his opinion, as is his right.

3 meals and 5 cups of thickened water does not equal '36 hours with no food or water".
Are you sure your mother agreed to be fed and take her fluids?
If she was on thickened fluids then she certainly had more problems than 'bleeding piles'.

At 98, you can't say that the hospital staff were the cause of her never walking again, because that is very doubtful.

I realise you loved your mum and wanted the best for her, but taking out your anger on the hospital staff, especially the admin staff, only goes to show more about you than them.

In August 2014 I took part in a workshop at the University of British Colombia (UBC) in Vancouver on what and how they teach. The issues identified in the subsequent report were: an increasing focus on vocational education, on-line competition and a demand for mid-career education: http://blog.highereducationwhisperer.com/2014/09/ubc-flexible-learning-strategy.html

These are areas I suggest Australian Higher Education also needs to address. The proposed federal government reforms of university funding, and much of the public debate, is missing the most important question which needs to be addressed: Will Australian Universities be able to compete on-line? http://blog.highereducationwhisperer.com/2014/12/your-future-is-australias-future.html

The Australian Computer Society runs an e-Learning Special Interest Group meeting in Canberra. The first meeting for 2015 is
"Innovations in Teaching Innovation", Wednesday, 11 February. Topics and speakers for the other meetings would be welcome: http://blog.highereducationwhisperer.com/2014/12/innovations-in-teaching-innovation-in.html