Beware of Israelis bearing gifts - Aye Mr Kapetopoulos :)

Is it possible that, over the past three or four years, more Palestinians have been killed in Syria, by both the dictatorship and the Islamo-fascists, than were killed by Israeli defence forces in Palestine during that same time ?

Hamas fired tens of thousands of rockets somewhere - it didn't seem to matter precisely where - into Israel. The intention, presumably, was that every one of those rockets would kill or injure 'an Israeli', man, woman or child, it wouldn't have mattered.

Now where have we seen that random disregard for life before ? That justification for killing in the name of a Cause ? The sacrifice of others for one's Own 'Common' Good ?

Just one or two other things, for now: does any recognition of a State of Palestine require a recognition of what that 'State of Palestine' claims are its boundaries ? i.e. all of the 'Holy Land' ? i.e. the recognition of a 'State of Palestine' requires an implicit agreement that Israel should not exist ?

And now that the Islamists in the Sinai, and in the Horn of Africa, and in northern Nigeria, have come under the black cloud of ISIS, how long before Hamas does the same ? What righteous outrage over Israel then for the Australian 'Left' ?

And how long will the 'Left' stay silent about the random killings of the fascists, from West Africa through Kenya and Kurdistan, almost daily now, right across to the Philippines ?

Joe

"Worse, the attacks on Israel seem to bear the hallmarks of deeply rooted and latent anti-Semitism."

Arabs are semitic.

If anything, Israelis are clearly far more caucasian than their neighbours. The Israeli caricature of the arab is eerily similar to the nazi propaganda posters of jews (beady little eyes, big noses, dark skin)

I recently commented on David Singers thread many topics that surround a general view of anti-semitism, and have been told repeatedly about my so-called "Jew Hatred", "Vile invective", and that my home is with "Hamas, the PLO, Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah and Islamic State" and that I am "not welcome here".

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=16840&page=0

Firstly though I'd like to make myself clear in regards to any attempt to label me "Anti-Semite", which was not said, but implied.

My basic mantra is that 'People have the right to live however they choose, so long as it doesn't affect people in an adverse manner. When that happens, something has to change.'

For quite a long time I had a hard time reconciling those views on the topic of homosexuals (I grew up in a time where things were a general consensus was somewhat different to the way things are nowadays), but eventually I've become a lot more tolerant and accepting.

I believe in freedom, liberty and equality for all, including Jews, even if it doesn't come across that way in the way I've voiced my criticisms (Not anti-Semitic views but a general questioning of the type of people Jews and Zionist represent) from information I've learned, all freely available on the internet in this information age.

Why is it that any questioning or criticism of Israel is almost automatically given to labeling a person 'Anti-Semite'?

Maybe the information I put forward is only one side of the story, factually incorrect, not the whole story or taken out of context, I invite pro-Jewish people to correct me if I'm wrong and to set me straight.

What I want to know is instead of having a discussion on a single topic relating to Israel, why cant we have a discussion on the 'Bigger Picture'?

I simply stated that why should Israel be deserving of compassion?

In regards to Fotis Kapetopoulos's article the only room I have left in this post is to put forward that Israeli spies may have been posing as art students and also using faked Australian Passports.

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/features/spies-or-students-1.45243
http://www.smh.com.au/national/israeli-spy-agency-mossad-regularly-faked-australian-passports-exagent-20100226-p8om.html

"During the bombings in July of Gaza by Israel in "reaction" to the firing of up to 3000 rockets from Gaza into Israel..."

With this sentence, the author loses all credibility. It seems that reactions can only go one way in Israel. Israeli violence is in "reaction" to Palestinian violence. Palestinian violence is only because they are insane haters of Jews.
No mention of course of the possible reasons that Hamas might be firing rockets. The ongoing occupation, the demolishing of homes, the assassinations of leaders, the seemingly random killing of farmers, fishermen, children and sometimes entire families. All which occurs with monotonous regularity during both times of cease fires and times of all out hostilities. Of course according to this author, Palestinians have no right to "react" to this kind of thing. Presumably this is as a result of their inferior ethnic or religious credentials.

I get very tired of the shouts of anti-semitism whenever someone criticises Israel. By this logic those who criticised the invasion of Iraq did so out of a hatred of all things American rather than any real disgust at a superpower invading a defenceless and broken nation, killing tens of thousands of people and setting off a ten year civil war which continues to rage to this day.

The main real difference between the two sides is that Israeli violence kills many thousand of civilians, whereas Palestinian violence kills a mere handful.

If Israel was to make even the slightest attempt to make peace with its neighbours and end its occupation, I would be its strongest supporter. However, they seem content to continue the occupation all the while stealing more and more land, making the likelihood of any two state solution more and more remote.
That is why I criticise Israel. Not some underlying hatred of Jews. Though as the self proclaimed "Jewish state" the actions of Israel will reflect on Jews as an ethnic and religious group, just as the actions of the Nazi's reflected on the German people as a whole and the actions of ISIS reflect on Muslims as a whole.

For the record nobody is acting like a Nazi or a Fascist here be it Israelis or "Islamofacists".
Hitler had a completely different view of Jews to that put forward by the modern Left, this quote from his 1920 speech "Why we are Anti Semites" is the keystone of his position:
"Thus we can see the two great differences between races: Aryanism means ethical perception of work and that which we today so often hear – socialism, community spirit, common good before own good. Jewry means egoistic attitude to work and thereby mammonism and materialism, the opposite of socialism."
http://carolynyeager.net/why-we-are-antisemites-text-adolf-hitlers-1920-speech-hofbr%C3%A4uhaus

This was a classic,

'When I raised the issue of diaspora rights in context of multiculturalism'

This coming from a country that just passed a law stating that Israel is a Jewish state.

From Netanyahu,

"It cannot be that Arabs can live in all communities and Jews can not live in Arab communities. What is evolving here is a state within a state."

The bill states:
“The right to realization of national self determination in Israel is exclusive to the Jewish people.”

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/187778#.VH8BGYfj6Go

You are happy for Israel to be racially pure but foist multiculturalism on the rest of us. Thanks to people like you our society has now been swamped with Muslims. Don't expect any sympathy from me. You reap what you sow.

"If Israel was to make even the slightest attempt to make peace with its neighbours and end its occupation, I would be its strongest supporter" How about 1967, 1973, 2000, 2001, 2008 - all rejected by the Palestinian leadership. Perhaps you might ask what peace overtures the Palestinian leadership has ever made. The answer: none.

You might also ask what is the Palestinian leadership doing to promote amongst Palestinians the concept of peace with Israel. The answer: nothing. On the contrary killing Jews and becoming a martyr in the struggle against Israel are encouraged, children are taught that all of Israel is "occupied" and Jewish connection with the area is discounted as a post WWII sop to European conscience.

Before you criticize Israel, have a look at what the Palestinians are doing.

I am so sick of hearing the 'Palestinians are Terrorists' line.
Do you know its really quite pathetic?
Its like saying I've moved the family over onto a neighbours property.
I'm growing food and also have been taking the owners livestock as well, but the owner of the property is angry at me.
How dare he be angry at me?
I'll turn his power off and cut his water off and murder his children until he gives in and accepts the reality that we're not leaving.

Look even a couple of kids under 10 that share a bedroom occasionally fight and the kids work it out themselves.
"This is my half!" they say.
They don't create a huge mess saying "I own this tile here, that one over there, those 2 by the door and those 3 over there.
...And don't step on any of my tiles!"

It's ludicrous that you would have us believe that Israel wants peace.

And so one child throws a rock..
And Israel then bombs an entire school...

They just ensured the hate goes on for more generations.
They work to make peace impossible.

I'm not being anti-Semitic... just realistic.

Armchair Critic,

Indeed. One child throws a rock ...... and Hamas fires a couple of thousand rockets into Israel, it doesn't matter where, as long as, hopefully, they will hit somewhere and somebody. Anybody, as long as they are Jewish.

And Israel retaliates. What's the mystery ?

Joe

I never said there was any mystery.

Please don't attempt to make the discussion about racism.
Even if the Israelis were Chinese, Mexican or any other race I'm sure the Palestinians would be equally displeased being treated that way. - And even if it was from their own people.
So take race out of it.
It about human rights and self-determination.
Everybody wants and deserves freedom.
Why is it ok for Israel to have self determination if the Palestinians cannot?

What do you expect building/creating your nation in the centre of the moslem world?
What do you expect placing spies among the Palestinians and routinely kicking in their doors at 2 and 3 am?
What do you expect deliberately targeting women and children?

Any idea that Israel wants for peace is a complete joke to me.

It seems a whole lot more realistic that the policies of Israel are DESIGNED TO PURPOSELY ENRAGE THE PEOPLE AND PROMOTE MORE TERRORISM.

You're welcome to try to convince me otherwise, but without any other information to counter the facts, I can't see it any other way.

You only want peace so long as the Palestinians live under your rule and you have everything your way. That's not equality, and trying to convince myself and others of it just makes you look foolish and sheds light that your argument is untenable and irrational.

AC,

As you say, race has nothing to do with it. I never said it did.

Like Palestine or Arab Egypt, or Arab north African countries, or Arab Iraq (it used to be mostly Kurdish) - Arab by the sword - Israel has a right to exist.

As soon as Moslem countries get over this notion of 'once a Moslem land, always a Muslim land' - a 'principle' of invasion that they don't recognise anybody else being entitled to (but ironically, a 'principle' that Israeli reactionaries adhere to as well) - then the Palestinians can start taking the steps towards being a separate nation from Israel.

In a sense, of course, Jordan is already the Palestinian nation, but if the Palestinians want to be split into two nations on either side of the Jordan River, that's for them to work out, once they've come to terms with the existence of Israel.

I'm all for an independent Palestine and an independent Israel. Side by side, forever. Better still, joined into one secular, democratic state. But that's not going to happen soon.

Joe

I am so sick of hearing that the Palestinians are not terrorists.

The "Palestinians" (actually, Arab Muslims living in Israel or near Israel) are the world's most successful ethnic cleansers, who are wailing because one of their victims has returned the complement. It is exactly like a burglar complaining that he has been burglerised by one of his victims. The Arab Muslims control 99.8% of the Middle East by virtue of the fact that they marched out of Arabia 1400 year ago and forcefully converted the entire Middle East, (and a lot of other places) to Islam. The 0.02% of the Middle east that the Jews formerly owned and which they have now reinhabited, the Muslims covet, and they will do anything to get it. It is an affront to their evil and violent religion that any part of the Ummah stolen from it's former owners could return to it's owners.

The Jews want peace and the Muslims want war.

The only way that the Israelis can find peace with the Arabs is to submit to Islam and that they are never going to do again. Of course they encouraging the Arabs living in Israel to go away by "resuming" land making life difficult for them, but that hardly equates with the Arab Muslim way of getting rid of minorities through beheadings, crucifixions, the abductions of young women and their forceful conversion to Islam, which is going on right now in Iraq and Syria.

One difference (among many) between the Israeli Jews and the Arab Muslims is that the Israeli Jews do not directly target civilians in their military operations, while the Arab Muslims do target them. And those civilian targets include western civilians. As a western civilian who is a target for Muslim terrorism, I oppose the Muslims because they are my enemy. The Muslims have been our self declared enemies for 1400 years. And I support Israel, because the Israelis and I have a common enemy.

Hi LEGO,

My limited understanding is that, at the time of the mythical Muhammad, most cities around the Arabian Peninsula, and across the Middle East and Egypt, were predominantly Christian and Jewish: the Bedouin/Arabs were watching their flocks out in the desert. Some of the first wars waged by the Muslims were against those cities, then up into what is now Syria and Mesopotamia (strongly Christian at the time), then across through Palestine to Egypt (both strongly Christian at the time).

The various Muslim empires were built by conquest, by the sword. So how can they complain if and when people defend themselves - Israelis, Yazidis, Christians, 'other' Muslims - in the same way ?

Killarney, try firing a rocket at random, anywhere in an Australian city, with the casual expectation that, yeah, it might do some damage, or even kill someone: what should be the response ? 'Ah, it's just some kid mucking around' ? I don't think so.

Joe

Absolutely correct, Joe.

Within 200 years of it's founding by Mohammad, Muslims from Arabia had invaded and conquered all of the Middle East, and had invaded Spain, France, Malta, Cyprus, Italy, and Sicily. Within 200 more they were marching on Greece, the Balkans, Buddhist Afghanistan and Pakistan, and Hindu India. The Muslims wanted to make all of Europe part of the Ummah, but the Northern Euros of the time were fearsomely warlike and the Muslims could not advance against them. So the Muslims contented themselves with blockading European trade with China and India. That is why the muslims conquered Constantinople and attacked the Caucasus, to cut the Silk Road route from Europe across the Black Sea. That was also why Vasco de Gama sailed around Africa, and why Columbus sailed west, to evade the Muslim blockade.

The Muslims have always been our self declared enemies and thy will always be our enemies. But intellectually challenged characters like Rhys Jones fall all over themselves defending the very people who would cut their throats if the opportunity presented itself. I thought it was quite funny when that American journo got his throat cut by ISIL, and the news reports said that he loved Arabs and Arab culture.

The Jews were persecuted by everybody yet the Jews as a group are not noted for suicide bombings, airliner bombs, embassy bombings, or the murder of diplomats. Not a single Jew has blown himself up in a German restaurant. 15 million Jews throughout the western world are mostly respected as a group for their incredible scientific achievements and their generally law abiding behaviour. The opposite can be said of the Muslims. They have become a problem in every society that they have infested and their own societies are economic ans social basket cases. Butt he Rhys Jones of this world can only reality through the distorting lens of their socialist ideology. Wars are always caused by Oppressors, and winners are always the Oppressors. Therefore he Jews must be the bad guys.