David Johnston's under attack not for telling the truth but for making prejudiced comments that reveal his intention to break an election promise. His pathetic apology, for the offence rather than the untruth, made things worse.

Setting up ASC was difficult, and in hindsight we can say it wasn't worth it. But the Howard government managed to fix the problems, both in the submarines and the corporation. Now the ASC has the capability, though inevitably with this sort of project there will be teething problems every time a new design is introduced. But if no new orders come, the expertise will eventually be lost, and in future we will either have to spend a huge amount of money regaining the expertise or buying from overseas will be the only option for future governments.

Even if offshoring would save $20bn on the purchase price (which seems unlikely) they would not be $20 billion better off because there would be a substantial reduction in tax revenue from SA.

Expertise, you're kidding Aidan, aren't you.

Rather than turn South Australia into a sheltered workshop for incompetent union bludgers, we should turn it into the welfare state.

We could transfer all retirement villages down there, it's not good for much else, & we could put all those displaced General Motors NON-workers, & the sub layabouts to community care on the minimum wage.

We could compulsorily move all those unemployed for over 2 years to SA for the same kind of work. That would fix the unemployment problem, or at least it's appearance. No one is going to admit to being unemployed if it means compulsory removal to South Oz.

OK, any other problems you lot need fixed?

His only crime was saying the truth about the ASC. A canoe of theirs would be hazardous and such Union sheltered workshops cannot be allowed to risk the lives of Servicemen. Buy the things from overseas, have plenty of quality spares with all the savings and contract out maintenance.

Bugger the Unionists, they killed Servicemen in WWII with their wharf games, lets not have more deaths due to Lefties.

That explains everything "neverwas" is a Queenslander.

No Hasbeen I'm not kidding. Expertise is very important, and its loss by government shorttermism is a huge waste.

Do you have any actual evidence at all that unions are responsible for any of ASC's problems?

People in SA want to work, but business investment is being dampened by interest rates set for the eastern states, and there isn't currently enough government spending to compensate.

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McCackie, are you really saying that what unions in other states did seventy years ago should have any bearing on how ASC workers are treated today?

Got it in one Aidan!
Perhaps if we could clean out Hasbeen's bludgers, we could do better than those places where the labor costs are higher. (Japan Germany)

I've always advocated that we should junk unfair dismissals by increasing work start, as the take it or leave it, offered only once, trade off.
Something that the ship building Scandinavians have tried, and it seems, with considerable success!

I would separate government ship and sub building, and re-float them as completely autonomous corporations, able to tender for Government work!
And given all the local advantages, for less than building the things in Japan or Germany.

The government needs to play its part and just crack on with supplying cheap energy, like say thorium power, connected to micro-grids, which in effect would supply power for less than half what Australian Industry is currently expected to pay!

We built the snowy Mountain scheme by employing the people we needed from wherever!
Rather than local lay-abouts, who I would have wait six months before able to get job start.

If that's too tough? Why they could always find a place in the defense force, which wouldn't moddy coddle them I assure you.
There'd be no nose furniture, no party drugs or playing computer games until early morning; and then sleeping in until after 11am.

They'd be up and running before breakfast in the first light, doing forced marches during the day, camping out and learning how to make fire without matches, if they wanted a hot meal, or boiled water.

And they'd carry all their food, water and camping gear on their backs, only resupplied once a week or so.
They'd learn the value of disciple, cooperation, being a team player, and eventual self reliance, and indeed, all the inevitable self esteem they'd get from all that.

The principle problems with the Collins class, was crewing them!
Having to wait for sit down money, would likely change that and the notion of service!
We've already changed the (British disease) culture on our wharves, thanks to armed and determined ex service men!
Cheers, Rhrosty.