Hi Wounded Swan,

Off-topic and ad hominem as usual :)

You know very well that Squeers floated that red herring on a thread about climate change, which had to be answered. So that's a bit disingenuous of you.

This topic concerns the concepts of 'victim' and victimisation' and their misuse. Do you have anything to write about those topics ? Or should we all - oh look, a dying swan ! Bring on Nureef and dame Margot.

Joe

imho "The one percent complains that the plebs want equality of talent, IQ, height, litres of Bollinger, etc, etc. Really? Try imagining equality of treatment under the law of the land; try imagining equality of access to good education, healthcare, and legal protection; try imagining equality of opportunity for every child to maximise their potential."

Well, in Australia, and most Western countries, equality of opportunity has already been achieved. Are you talking about 3rd world countries?

It would have been good if the author made the meaning of equality clearer.

Killarney "Neoliberals are just as adept at playing the victim."

For once, I agree with you. Many conservatives, or those claiming to be conservatives, have embraced the 'victimhood' approach that "progressives" have mastered over the last few decades. Conservatives should never play the victim. Never. Conservatives should stick to being proud and thankful that they have inherited Western traditions, and continue to argue why they are good.

Loudmouth

‘Indigenous people would find your comment quite racist and ignorant.’

Well, if they did, it would reveal them to be pretty racist and ignorant themselves. I would hope they can see that I was referring to flawed data-gathering methods that tend to distort indigenous statistics – often at indigenous expense.

Excuse me. I’m off to lunch with Andrew Bolt …

Aristocrat

‘Conservatives should stick to being proud and thankful that they have inherited Western traditions, and continue to argue why they are good.’

Why do you assume that lefties are not proud and thankful that they have inherited Western traditions?

If you read leftist websites and publications, there is a wealth of pride and gratitude regarding the centuries of struggle by the ordinary people of the West to achieve the freedoms, rights and working conditions enjoyed by most Western populations today – all of which are now under severe threat.

Very few (indeed, none) of those rights were bestowed on us by the great warmongers, imperialists, laissez-faire capitalists and feudal barons of the past, so revered in all our Western history texts. Those rights had to be fought for – and that is our most precious of Western traditions.

Killarney,

You write of: " .... flawed data-gathering methods that tend to distort indigenous statistics .... "

What I think you are alluding to has been an issue ever since the earliest days of the colonies. It may also go to the heart of what Indigenous people perceive, in a multitude of ways, what it means to be Indigenous.

Yes, there has been a tiny number of Johnny-come-latelies and phonies, but that particular 'flaw' in data-gathering is not anywhere near large enough to alter the ball-park figure.

CORRECTION: Above I wrote:

" .... So between 28 % and 32 %, give or take, of a chosen group, say the 20-year-olds, are hypothetically commencing university study for the first time. Say a round figure of 40 %. Two thirds women, one third men. So about 40 % of Indigenous women commence university study each year now, and about 20 % of all Indigenous men."

Sorry, I meant "a round figure of 30 %". i.e. that roughly 30 % of young Indigenous adults will at some time enrol at university, overwhelmingly in a mainstream, on-campus course at degree-level.

However you cut it, Killarney, what will be the impact of a quarter of young Indigenous women, and an eighth of young Indigenous men, have on the Indigenous scene ? What input will they have into the debate, once they get on their professional feet, and how soon can they - forty thousand, soon fifty thousand, rhen sixty thousand - displace the useless elite currently dominating Indigenous affairs ?

Thank you for provoking these questions.

Jo

Killarney,

Here's another feature of Indigenous higher education achievement that you might want to think over, and marvel at.

Actually, Indigenous students still tend to be slightly older than the Australian average when they commence university study. Their median age - the 'middle' student, with just as many younger as older - is around 24 or 25 (in reality, the median Australian student commences study at a higher age than usually thought, around 22). So Indigenous students graduate at a median age of around 27 or 28.

If we use the 24-year-olds as a sort of surrogate, or equivalent, group, that changes the picture slightly: in 2014, such an age-group was born in 1990, right at the beginning of the huge birth-rate increase: according to the 2011 ABS Census, 9,979 Indigenous people turned 24 in 2014. In 2014, according to Ed. Dept. figures, 4,115 Indigenous people commenced university study in that year, the equivalent of 41% of the 24-year-old age-group.

Subtracting second-degree, transfer and returning-student commencements, of 5-6 %, this suggests that the equivalent of about 35 % of the 24-YOAG commenced study this year, two-to-one females, or about 46 % of 24-YOAG women, and 23 % male.

But this might move you: up to 1990, about 3,600 Indigenous people had graduated from tertiary courses. By the end of this year, about thirty eight thousand have graduated. So in the generation between, 24 years, more than thirty four thousand Indigenous people have graduated from tertiary courses, overwhelmingly mainstream, degree-level, on-campus.

ALL indigenous adults over 27 numbered about 250,000 in 2014. So graduates numbered about one in every seven adults. Roughly one in every five Indigenous women are graduates, one in every ten. In the cities, perhaps one in every four Indigenous women are graduates. Sounds amazing, doesn't it ? And it's not over yet.

But in remote areas, perhaps one in every hundred Indigenous men are graduates.

What impact will this glaring - and growing - difference have on Indigenous society as a whole in the next few decades ?

[TBC]